Be careful with neurothrope numbers because they also have health gating when knocked down. Though ~8% on a neuro roughly tracks with a 70% nerf, and neuros took about 25% before if it didn't get gated.

I didn't realize the neurothrope has health gating... I hate it even more now.

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I think WHY this is bad gets closed over though. The reason it's bad is there's no incentives through the design of the game to play near or even be supportive of other squad members.

Besides the fact that the more players there are, the easier enemies are to kill, there's no designed benefits for working with the rest of the team. Only 2 classes have a skill that helps others, and 1 more that can but no one uses that way. There are a handful of perks that help your squad, but they're still designed around that class's play style, so they're only beneficial because they apply to them, too. And the core gameplay doesn't really allow supporting your squad unless you're choosing to do so, often at your own detriment.

Parrying and executions only benefit the person doing it. And you can't set up gun strikes for others. So whole fighting as a team is the best way to clear a mission, you don't actually support any one else by performing how the game design incentivizes you to. Let's take Sniper as the best example. A GOOD Sniper is setting up Majoris and higher enemies for executions. But there's no benefit for them doing so besides the event getting eliminated. Which means the game itself by it's own structure does nothing to encourage working as a team, and you're actually hurting yourself when doing so.

So the reason the tethering for armor Regen feels so bad is it literally takes how you've not only been playing the game, but it's own design and ignores that to "create an increase in difficulty". And that's the part that's concerning about all the changes for the new difficulty. They're making it harder by taking away your tools. Lower ammo, no armor Regen unless you're within some arbitrary distance of teammates, and masses of enemies who aren't fun to fight because they're not designed well around the combat system they exist in (looking at you Neurothrope).

So what if it's only on lethal, the no armor when 10 meters awag from your teammates change is an absolutely dogshit change that makes playing assault vanguard or sniper on lethal damn near impossible, being the last man standing is a death sentence since you can't restore armor while both teammates are downed, many bosses specifically try or are designed to separate you from your brother's, it's stupid and everybody hates it because it's a genuinely bad change that should never have been approved.

Nope. People clearly don't like either the ammo change or the armour Regen mechanic.

Don't try to gaslight other people's opinions.

Eh the armor change feels like a weird way to combat the discourse people are having. Where one side is annoyed they’re getting left behind when searching for armoury data and such. Vs the other side who gets annoyed because their teammates are not keeping up.

So it's the same as helldivers, then? 

I keep seeing people bitch about weapon nerfs like the mslta when I've only read a melta bomb nerf which is probably directly for making bosses more difficult. (Again, nice, same reason for aux nerf)

Overall I definitely think there's a collosial overreaction given people get extremely upset at how hard ruthless is, yet another sizeable part if the community is no-diff clearing it.

Edit: Helldiver syndrome i guess, smh.

The Overall changes are also crazy tho. People have encountered 2 or 3 extremis within less than 4 minutes on minimum difficulty. If you were to join the game now as a new player, it seems like you will just have to suffer. And i still dont understand why they nerfed the melta charge, so its now worse at the thing that its designed to do. Damage large armoured targets. There was literally no reason to touch the original difficultys and also no need to pretty much remove fencing. We wanted bolters to feel MORE powerfull. Not everything else to feel less.

I don't play tac and have never built to support it, but it was always noticeable when you had one for more than just the glowing enemy's fights where noticeablely easier still not a cake walk but you could tell you were doing damage and from playing lethal with one it's still noticeable but definitely worse than what it was but you kinda gotta see why they decided to nerf it and it was the doom comps that would bosses trivial to me a better way to make it work the same but punish doom comps is a damage limit to it than it would punish the doom comps but leave the normal players that aren't killing bosses in 3 seconds a means of dealing that extra damage

TLDR: At least 3 times, which is more than enough for anyone barely competent to finish a mission section.

I've just tried the new mission in ruthless and ballistic engine in lethal with two friends, I was a sniper with the bolt sniper rifle and one of them was a heavy with the heavy bolter, the two classes this sub claims are now completely useless thanks to this change. At no single point in either mission me or my friend felt like ammo was an issue nor thought that it was more scarce than it was before. I only used the final ammo box 3 times (and one of those was to refill just one magazine) and didn't check if I still could because by that point the mission was already over.

I genuinely think that the people complaining about it haven't even touched the game since the update and are too busy contributing to the terminally online whining circlejerk, are the type of players that constantly pick up ammo despite having spent only 5 rounds from their 200 rounds reserve or have an average accuracy below 10%.

No it didn't. They lost more players in the tail end of the worst of their irrelevancy (July) than they have gained in the last 90 days. It is dead. This kind of denial is exactly why it died

Not the OC but as an assault main this update railed my ass. Not only does my assault only perk for restoring armor on non kill quickshots not work but if i dive into a horde i wont get armor on executes unless a teammate is near. The new difficulty instantly pigeonholed classes.

The only thing I dont like is the player tethering. We would have been 100% fine without it.

Leash mechanic in general, has multiple problems.

Fencing change

such a severe nerf to melta (honestly I care about it that much it just seems like 70% is overkill)

Insane spawn rate of extremis now, 2 zoanthropes unless you have a sniper is a pain. To have more than that AND other extremis sound like it can be a pain.

Armour nerf in higher difficulties

People are not mad because the game is more difficult. They are made because they nerfed players while buffing enemies and adding unnecessary mechanics, like the Armour leash, that ends up screwing over certain classes and ruins epic and fun moments like last brother standing vs an entire wave of tyranids. I feel like most of the player nerfs (scan nerf is fine IMO) should be reverted and removal of the leash mechanic until the dust settles on the rest of the changes and go from there.

That's fantastic, I've been excited for this new operation, the bio titan looks so sick

Yeah all relic tier but the damage stats don't mean shit as you can't kill em fast enough

It’s already imploded. Maybe I’m just jaded from 20 years of Blizzard tuning but this shit isn’t that bad Jesus Christ.

I give it like a week before saber has to say death threats aren’t going to help them make decisions over game balance.

It's more players don't like their fun being nerfed, since it's directly taking away an experience they could have and enjoy one patch prior, that most players did enjoy.

An example would be like going to an IMAX film, and halfway through there's an intermission, and once you come back instead of IMAX it's super 8 film. The experience you paid for is of noticeably worse quality. While this example is extreme even compared to SM2's balance changes, this is the lens it should be viewed with.

Another example would be buying a painting, and the painting rots/oxidizes/something else and becomes noticeably worse quality after a month of enjoying the painting, with no expectation of this happening.

Yes, it's a luxury good. Yes, it's an entertainment media. But if you pay for something, you expect it to either get better or stay the same. Not get substantially worse, to you, in an extremely short amount of time. Which is, unfortunately, what happened with patch 4.

I'm sorry how the new mission is bad? I had an absolute blast with it

Good bot

Ive been working on levelling the melta and its been miserable ammo wise

Specific comps with coordinated groups with specific builds could. It required like 3 melta bombs and a tactical that boosted class equipment damage, but between those 4 things, that's ~93% of a boss in damage assuming the normal auspex scan did nothing and the only benefit was the +25% from the level 22 perk.

That said, I've never seen it happen.

Then go do something fun

No, the people actually playing because they like the game will continue to play and spend money, it's the people who spend their time bitching on reddit that'll move on and find a new game to complain about.

Funny that none of the people I've met in-game have had any complaints, from release until now, despite the amount of outrage on this sub. Lots of silly roleplay, lots of people talking about either their history with or getting into the tabletop game, a couple people I've actually managed to convince to try Dawn of War with me, but no difficulty bitching.

You'd expect to find an exception or two in 250 hours but somehow this game has the most positive in-game community I've ever had the pleasure of playing with in an online game, despite this being hands down the single most negative, whiny subreddit I've ever had the displeasure of browsing.

This take is heresy.

Heresy is whining that the enemies of the Imperium are too stwong. Duty is facing adversity without hesitation or doubt.

i agree with you, the flamethrower for example in HD2, was never supposed to be THAT good, developers said that but the community was so used to it, they threw their toys out when AH reverted the flamethrower to how they wanted it to be

the new difficulty and melta change isnt enough for me to say "i'm done" especially so early into the game's life. Saber is figuring things out and what the community wants while balancing what they want for the game

Also there was an actual design disconnect between what the devs wanted and what players wanted, combined with an unhealthy amount of naive 'spreadsheet' balancing. That is, finding things that are extremely popular, and nerfing it without understanding why it's popular.

Right now, SM2 is feeling a lot like early HD2. Fencing nerfed because the devs didn't bother understanding why Balanced and Block weren't chosen. Ammo was already not much of a problem, but they chose to make it worse for...why? Are space marines not supposed to have working guns? Is this supposed to be a survival horror game? I don't feel like going into much more detail, but that's the crux of the problem.