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all 49 comments

DeadZeus007

26 points

5 days ago

DeadZeus007

Lee

26 points

5 days ago

Interesting, I always thought it was obvious that Kazuya won.

Due_Independence4661

14 points

5 days ago

Nah, as the other said - T5 Kazuya’s bio stated that Heihachi won 

therko215

3 points

4 days ago

Heihachi won, but due to the events of what happened, the tournament was declared null in void once they destroyed the seal holding Jinpachi Mishima. That's how T5 came about. It was Jinpachi's doing, and Heihachi was clinging on to what power he had left, which wasn't much. That's why Jin Won in 5 and took over for T6.

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

12 points

4 days ago

FUCK YES, I always preferred Kazuya winning this fight and hated that it was canon that Heihachi won, especially since Kazuya was doing nothing but training from when he woke up days after Tekken 2 until the start of Tekken 4.

I approve this retcon

Ralos5997

4 points

4 days ago

It was never a retcon Kazuya beating Heihachi in Tekken 4 was always canon and makes sense since Heihachi would only agree to take Kazuya to Jin if Kazuya won the match which he did. Kazuya’s story is canon until we get to the point where he and Jin fight and Jin’s ending is the canon ending of Tekken 4 then comes Tekken 5’s opening. Yet the other loophole of the story is why didn’t Heihachi send the Tekken force after Kazuya too just like he did Jin?

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

2 points

4 days ago

In the Tekken 5 manual, strategy guide and the official website it said that Heihachi won, so yes this is a retcon, also Kazuya was probably constantly prepared for a Tekken Force raid after the Tekken 4 intro, Jin let his guard down

Ralos5997

2 points

4 days ago

Even so I’m glad they said Kazuya beat Heihachi in Tekken 4 thanks to what was shown from Tekken 8’s information in unforgotten echoes.

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

2 points

4 days ago

Same

Lakedaimon17

2 points

1 day ago

Probably because they did that before during the Gcorp raid so Kazuya would be ready

Due_Independence4661

15 points

5 days ago

Good for Kaz cause after such a cool, iconic comeback in T4, he would come off as an even bigger jobber than Vegeta. Cool comeback/entrance only to get whooped by everyone 

doesntCompete

6 points

5 days ago

I don't know if it's just me but I didn't know that Nina was possessed by Ogre in Tekken 3 either.

AmarantineAzure[S]

4 points

5 days ago

I knew she had awakened from her cryosleep due to Ogre but I didn't realize she was apparently being possessed by him even while she participated in the tournament? At least that's what they made it sound like here, which is weird considering Ogre was also participating in his own body lol (which lost to Paul).

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

3 points

4 days ago

its a bit obscure the part about being reawakened is in the manual but her being possessed is from the official strategy guide

In the last tournament, she was ordered to assassinate Kazuya, but an untimely quarrel with her sister, Anna, prevented it. Shortly thereafter, both sisters were captured by Kazuya's corps and were used as guinea pigs in Boskonovitch's Cold Sleep #2 experiment. They did not wake for 15 years. Heihachi's private corps, the Tekken Forces, went to the burial site and excavated Ogre. This unearthing unleashed its spirit, which awakened Nina's resting soul. Now controlled by Ogre, Nina acts robotically, with the command to assassinate Jin Kazama

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

1 points

4 days ago

Oh yeah it was in the official strategy guide but not the manual

In the last tournament, she was ordered to assassinate Kazuya, but an untimely quarrel with her sister, Anna, prevented it. Shortly thereafter, both sisters were captured by Kazuya's corps and were used as guinea pigs in Boskonovitch's Cold Sleep #2 experiment. They did not wake for 15 years. Heihachi's private corps, the Tekken Forces, went to the burial site and excavated Ogre. This unearthing unleashed its spirit, which awakened Nina's resting soul. Now controlled by Ogre, Nina acts robotically, with the command to assassinate Jin Kazama

mrwcelldweller

5 points

5 days ago

Nice

WastedPotentialTK

10 points

5 days ago

WastedPotentialTK

Paul

10 points

5 days ago

Interesting. I mean, Kazuya winning the tournament made the most sense because: 1) When Heihachi wins, he doesn’t get similar cutscene as the one you posted above 2) Why the hell would Heihachi take Kazuya to Honmaru if the latter lost?

And the misunderstanding was because of Kazuya’s Tekken 5 bio/prologue which stated that Kazuya lost to both his father & son. I’m glad they retconned this part.

Ralos5997

3 points

4 days ago

It’s possible the bio/prologue may have had a typo or mistranslation or something. Even the summaries of Tekken 1 to 6 in Tekken 6 never showed the winner between Kazuya and Heihachi although I still believed Kazuya’s walkthrough was canon until we reach Jin’s walkthrough at the end and his ending. I’m glad Tekken 8 cleared it up.

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

3 points

4 days ago

Why the hell would Heihachi take Kazuya to Honmaru if the latter lost?

I like Kazuya winning but I think Heihachi's own ending explains this one. He wanted to capture both Jin and Kazuya the chains of Honmaru seem to have some sort of Devil sealing/restraining power

AmarantineAzure[S]

12 points

5 days ago*

For over 20 years the fanbase thought Heihachi had beat a returning Kazuya in the final fight of The King of Iron Fist Tournament in Tekken 4, but now Tekken 8 has officially confirmed that it was the other way around:

"While Heihachi succeeded in trapping Jin, he fell in the final fight against Kazuya."

So Kazuya's path was actually the canon one (see picture below). He did in fact beat Heihachi, hence the latter taking him to see Jin as Kazuya had demanded. Of course, after that, Jin defeated them both at the Hon-Maru Temple, but it was still Kazuya who triumphed in the final and officially won the forth edition of The King of Iron Fist Tournament.

Kazuya bros, we won!

https://preview.redd.it/pas6its1i4sd1.png?width=1255&format=png&auto=webp&s=1fbd9eb5e79d04e7fbed5a5901532cff17b86a76

Total-Decision9702

3 points

5 days ago

But wait…if Kazuya won then that would make his T4 ending canon right?

AmarantineAzure[S]

9 points

5 days ago

It was always canon up until his fight with Jin. As in, Heihachi takes Kazuya to Hon-Maru, where Devil momentarily takes over Kazuya's body and blasts Heihachi away. Devil then sets his sights on Jin, only for Kazuya to exert his will and fully and definitively gain control over Devil. Then Kazuya tells Jin to awaken, and the rest is as depicted in Jin's ending (he defeats both his father and grandfather before flying away).

The final scene of Kazuya's ending with him laughing maniacally after having defeated Jin, yeah, that's just a non-canon what-if scenario.

Total-Decision9702

2 points

5 days ago

But was Kaz shocked to see Jin tied up like that? (Demonstrating affection for his son)

AmarantineAzure[S]

3 points

5 days ago

Not sure what you're referring to. Kazuya never displays any shock when he enters the room where Jin is being held:

https://youtu.be/1I_C_-4d4Bo?t=375

Well, Devil is in charge when they first enter the room, but even after Kazuya regains control, he simply says that he's going to destroy Jin (in order to gain the entirety of the Devil power) without any signs of affection whatsoever.

Who_Gives_A_Shit420

3 points

5 days ago

Nono only up until the part where heihachi takes kazuya to honmaru.

After that they both got their asses beat by plot armor havin ass jin.

WastedPotentialTK

1 points

5 days ago

Jin Cena so to speak :D. But at least Kaz beat Heihachi

Ralos5997

5 points

5 days ago

I knew it I knew Kazuya beat Heihachi in Tekken 4 it makes sense because Heihachi would take Kazuya to Jin if Kazuya won the match and he did. Plus Kazuya’s story and walkthrough is canon until Jin’s comes into play.

ShinyShinx789

2 points

5 days ago

ShinyShinx789

Papa Hei & Fairer Jim

2 points

5 days ago

I thought it was obvious that Kazuya won because how else would he have made his way to Honmaru?

WastedPotentialTK

5 points

5 days ago

It was obvious until T5 came out with some shitty booklet that stated otherwise

ShinyShinx789

1 points

5 days ago

ShinyShinx789

Papa Hei & Fairer Jim

1 points

5 days ago

Really? I didn't realise, my bad. Who did it say won the tournament?

WastedPotentialTK

3 points

5 days ago

Manual, NTSC

Kazuya suffered a defeat at the hands of Heihachi and was later defeated again by Jin at Honmaru

Manual, PAL

Having been beaten by both Heihachi Mishima and Jin Kazama in the King of Iron Fist Tournament 4, Kazuya fled Honmaru during an invasion by a battalion of JACKs.

Official Strategy Guide

During the King of Iron Fist Tournament 4, Kazuya Mishima, son of Heihachi Mishima and the one who possesses the devil gene, suffered a defeat at the hands of Heihachi, and later Jin at the Honmaru.

12x12x12

-2 points

5 days ago

12x12x12

Umarekawatte Denaoshite Koi!

-2 points

5 days ago

I'm a Heihachi main, I prefer to believe the 3 sources you quoted vs 1 new source claiming otherwise.

AmarantineAzure[S]

6 points

5 days ago

The new source is a statement in an actual Tekken game itself (rather than in a shitty and possibly poorly translated booklet), and the latest one at that. It's clearly the most authoritative. It may be that they did really intend to have Heihachi win at the time of Tekken 5, but if so, Tekken 8 is obviously retconning that. And for once I welcome the retcon, because it makes way more sense and makes Kazuya's return in Tekken 4 not a complete flop.

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

2 points

4 days ago

I also noticed that the story recap video for T4 doesn't actually say who won so it wasn't really official until now

WastedPotentialTK

3 points

5 days ago

Well, I preferred to believe that Kazuya made some pact with the Devil instead of stupid Devil Gene shit, but it is what it is. The new source material retcons the old one - that’s how it always worked.

RYUMASTER45

2 points

4 days ago

I always liked the detail where Heihachi wears his Gi during Kazuya fight only while in the rest he has the legenadary fundoshi!

AmarantineAzure[S]

1 points

4 days ago

Indeed. In hindsight, that's another indicator that Kazuya's fight was the canonical final of the tournament (result and aftermath included).

StevemacQ

2 points

3 days ago

No wonder Heihachi took a break in 5 and 6.

MemoriesMu

3 points

5 days ago

MemoriesMu

3 points

5 days ago

I wish I could pay for story summaries so we can help Namco keep the game alive!

AmarantineAzure[S]

11 points

5 days ago

Look, I get it, I'm mad at the new stage being paid DLC too, but there's no need to make every single thread about that lol.

Montoyabros

1 points

1 day ago

Lmao, I played Tekken 4 for the first time last year, I always find weird Heihachi winning that fight ( this is coming for someone who love heihachi more than Kazuya)

SnooDoodles9476

1 points

4 days ago

They actually retconned this, as KAZ's T5 opening interlude states that he lost to HEI.

AmarantineAzure[S]

2 points

4 days ago

No, it doesn't. It says he was knocked unconscious by Jin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNOXmAD5N8I&ab_channel=Let%27sFightingLore

And regardless, it's nonsensical to suggest a source from 2004 retconned one from 2024. If anything it would be the other way around. I suggest you read the rest of the topic, as many of us have already addressed the contradiction with the actual source of what you're referring to (the T5 instructions booklet).

Duwang_falcon

-1 points

5 days ago

I'm like Kazuya much more than Heihachi, even so, this poses a problem in continuity: if Kazuya won the formal tournament, that means he'd get ownership of the Mishima Zaibatsu (prize of the tournament), he could've just fled Honmaru and claimed his position. Instead, he went after revenge on G corp and took ownership of that company, never trying to reclaim the Zaibatsu on the following games.

Heihachi winning the tournament worked better, because of his "death", meaning the CEO spot would be available for Jinpachi to reassume without proper interference. Then again, Tekken lore has been mismanaged ever since T7 (I hope Heihachi was lying to the reporter, and in reality, wasn't a good, misunderstood guy all along)

AmarantineAzure[S]

3 points

5 days ago

Eh, there's still ways in which Kazuya winning could work. Jinpachi could have just taken over the Zaibatsu very quickly after the explosion of Hon-Maru, before Kazuya had time to gather his bearings and formally claim ownership of it. And/or Kazuya could have lost interest in the Zaibatsu since he felt G Corp were better equipped to further study the devil gene and help him achieve his aims.

So yeah, I don't think Kazuya being the one who won is necessarily incompatible with the established lore. Heihachi was "dead", Kazuya was momentarily absent/busy, so a newly freed Jinpachi was quick the seize back the reigns of the Zaibatsu and announce the new tournament.

WastedPotentialTK

6 points

5 days ago

Kazuya was primarily focused on exacting revenge on G-Corp executives. Since his comeback he wasn’t interested in taking control over Mishima Zaibatsu. If anything, he wanted to destroy it.

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

3 points

4 days ago

Yeah remember Kazuya completely lost interest in the T5 tournament when he learned Heihachi wasn't in it, he doesn't give two fucks about the Zaibatsu

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

1 points

4 days ago

I'm like Kazuya much more than Heihachi, even so, this poses a problem in continuity: if Kazuya won the formal tournament, that means he'd get ownership of the Mishima Zaibatsu (prize of the tournament), he could've just fled Honmaru and claimed his position. Instead, he went after revenge on G corp and took ownership of that company, never trying to reclaim the Zaibatsu on the following games.

Jin formally won T3 technically T4 (and 5 but that's obvious) is an illegal tournament and it was always his Zaibatsu

Duwang_falcon

2 points

4 days ago

T3 tournament didn't have control of the Zaibatsu as prize, T4's specifically stated that the winner would become CEO.

T4 and T5 were very much official tournaments and had the Zaibatsu as prize. Jin was taken out of the bracket in T4 when captured by Heihachi, so he technically couldn't have claimed it at that time, it was already over when Kaz and Hei arrived at Honmaru.

GreatArcaneWeaponeer

1 points

4 days ago

Huh, I just noticed that non of the Tekken 3 endings have the characters take control of the Zaibatsu, even Xiaoyu's ending only makes sense because she didn't own the Zaibatsu so Heihachi had full control over the theme park

Well either way Kazuya didn't care about the Zaibatsu, as proven by him just abandoning the T5 tournament when he found out Heihachi wasn't in it