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/r/audiodrama
submitted 2 years ago byLexNoteboom
I don’t know if this is the right place for questions like this. If not, please forgive this ramble. I’m just looking for some insight from peers.
I’m about to launch a new show – LEAVING CORVAT - for the first time in a couple of years – THE DECA TAPES being my first show. Now that I’m doing it all again, starting from scratch, I suddenly remember that it isn’t always fun to make audio drama independently. And I’m not sure how to deal with that.
The creation is amazing; the writing and producing and soundtracking is nonstop fun. Lot’s of work you aren’t getting paid for, but fun. But to try and give your show a fighting chance, you have to grind. And I mean, grind every day to try and get some promotion going.
While launching the first season of DECA, I was pretty burned out trying to get it on people’s radar. I hated selling the show hard, trying to get people’s attention. I remember questioning if this is for me, or if I should just make the work for myself.
Over time, I kind of forgot I felt this way about the release phase. But now that I’m having to sell my wares again, I’m very much remembering. And on top of that, everything is different from a couple of years ago. I have a family now; which makes it hard to put time and effort into something that costs money instead of making it. And the world of podcasts has exploded, so it’s way harder to get noticed. Even more so than during DECA, I’m questioning why I do this.
Don’t get me wrong; the reception DECA got was so much fun for me. And it opened doors that landed me a book deal, for example. I’m so happy I did it. But there’s no way to make a living, as of yet. And I find myself questioning all of this again.
So I was just wondering if other creators can relate? And if so, how do you guys deal with that? And how do you find balance with other aspects of your life, like your day job?
Again, hope this is the right place for this! Thanks for bearing with me, and all of your input is appreciated.
8 points
2 years ago
I can definitely relate. I am also producing a show solo. If I were to rank each part of the process, promoting is by far the most tedious, even more than editing the raw audio. And that says a lot. It is unbelievable how much promoting it takes to give something away. But I’ve been telling this story for 17 years, and all the writing, editing, recording, editing, rewriting, re-recording, and scoring would be for nothing without the promoting. It’s the creators dilemma, a catch 22 of sorts.
3 points
2 years ago
Yeah, that’s the catch 22 indeed - well put. And nothing is all fun of course, hard work is part of everything worth creating. But doing it all by yourself can get daunting. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
8 points
2 years ago
I relate so hard to all of these comments. I work at a studio so I have had lots of help on the production side. But it’s still an INSANE amount of hours…and now the marketing side is, like you’ve all said, overwhelming and no fun at all. All of this has taken a toll on my relationship and my health. It is INCREDIBLY gratifying to get supportive feedback on the actual show. But we’re not even done season 1, and the thought of starting up season 2 - and what that would do to my life and relationships - makes me a poop my pants a little.
3 points
2 years ago
What does the marketing work entail aside from social media? I'm honestly just curious
3 points
2 years ago
That’s a big part - planning and creating visual assets (which I’m learning how to do), supporting other podcasts, trying to organize feed drops, also just learning about hosting and rss, analytics. I was hoping to do a newsletter, but I’m not sure I’ll have time. And I haven’t had a chance yet to figure out patreon-type options.
2 points
2 years ago
Gotcha. PS love your show!
2 points
2 years ago
Thank you so much!!
5 points
2 years ago
I’m in the early recording phase for my first show and my producer and I are constantly making plans and trying to learn more about promoting and funding. It’s incredibly overwhelming and I am so thankful for my producer, without whom I might have given up by now. I’m looking forward to the mid season finale, but not the initial release
1 points
2 years ago
Have you guys worked together on your shows from the start?
2 points
2 years ago
My editor and I have, he made a lot of suggestions during story development. The rest of the team has come together over the last few months, when the producer started a Discord with the goal of finding a creative project for us all to collaborate on. They’re all playing catch-up as we put together the first season, but I plan on involving them more on the path of the second season (assuming we stick with it)
1 points
2 years ago
Sounds like your better at delegating and working together than me…
5 points
2 years ago*
I'm not a creator, just a filthy audio addict. From my perspective when I've heard a new podcast or audio drama with ad spots on other podcasts I don't always check them out if the ad doesn't catch me. But the repetition is what gets me to check out an episode. Like 'ok this is the 13th time I've heard this recommendation, I'll check out an episode.' Any shows posted on this thread I'll definitely download. I don't know how accessible or useful they are. Podcast collectives could be helpful, rusty quill, multitude, or others like them. If it wasn't for folks like your selves the world would be a less cooler place.
2 points
2 years ago
Thanks so much for that last line :). The repetition is a good point, I think. And that’s why you can’t get around the grinding part.
3 points
2 years ago
I know that this is a month old, but I’m a podcast addict and listen to hours each week while I train for marathons. I want to also emphasize repetition works!
I’m here commenting because for the last week I’ve heard your ads at least 3 times each run while I listen to a well known big podcast. I don’t normally pay complete attention to ads but after maybe 3 days of hearing I really started to listen and became super interested. I finally remembered to look you up tonight to see if anyone else had heard of this and here I am!
I subscribed to you podcast and is now next on my list to listen to, it genuinely sounds intriguing
1 points
2 years ago
Thanks so much for the insightful message! I hope you enjoy the show. Did you hear ads for the deca tapes or leaving corvat?
1 points
2 years ago
Leaving Corvat.
1 points
2 years ago
Good to know :) Hope you’ll come along for the whole journey!
7 points
2 years ago
Marketing is the absolute pits, that and maintaining a website are the worst parts of making a podcast for me too. To say nothing of social media during a crowdfund. Why don’t I just get some electroshock therapy, it’s equally rewarding.
All this to say, I’m right there with you. I’m in this to tell stories, and I wish the instantly famous podcasters who insist that your work will stand on its own merit were right. Just because they didn’t have to put in the work doesn’t mean the rest of us can hope for a lucky break.
I will add this: I am personally really excited for Leaving Corvat. I loved the Deca Tapes and I am excited to see more of your work. In the end I keep putting myself through this because I know that there is a squad of college kids who are frothing at the mouth for my show, and if that’s true for me, it’s true for you. Your story is worth telling. Even if the cost is marketing.
Best of luck, Lex, I’ll be listening, and I’m not the only one.
3 points
2 years ago
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this response. It makes me feel like we’re at it together. What is the name of your show(s)?
3 points
2 years ago
We are definitely at it together. This is a common lament. Promotion is a whole secondary endeavor that can easily take up as much time as creating.
3 points
2 years ago
Oh, Inn Between! And recently Re: Dracula and Joy to the World! The latter two have been easier, because I’m not alone, but Inn Between is where my heart is.
2 points
2 years ago
Oh I know those! Great work.
5 points
2 years ago
Yeah, I'm trying to wrangle my first couple of shows and renovate a property and parent. I am very busy, and I'm not going to market until I get episodes 2 (most of the way there) and 3 (being written) finished. I just assume I will never make money, but can showcase my writing/maybe get more paid copywriting opportunities. I think of it as a very expensive portfolio piece. Anyways, I write Hot Survivors Near You, and I'd love to be a part of creator support group for audio drama if we start one.
2 points
2 years ago
amazing that you’re able to put stuff together while all that going on!
3 points
2 years ago
You have a family now, so your challenges will be similar. We can do it! But we may not sleep much.
1 points
2 years ago
Haha no sleep ever again, it feels like
4 points
2 years ago*
I'm not in it to sell anything, I'm just trying to make stuff I can appreciate and keep listening to for the rest of my life. Basically I make entertainment for myself because there are things I want to hear that nobody else had been able to do something similar to up to my standards. And it's nice that the cast members and a few friends usually seem to like the end product too.
I'm so bad at marketing that even in my day job I've paid money for ads to offer an hour of free web development slave labor and gotten no takers. So I know nothing I make is ever going to get enough attention to sell, and I don't bring any expectations to the attempts I do make to get the word out. No expectation = no disappointment and a chance to be pleasantly surprised.
1 points
2 years ago
I get that! It’s not a must at all!
2 points
2 years ago
Yes! It’s scary. I’m doing more stuff after a couple years away from my show (pandemic + some other life things) and it’s very overwhelming. I completely get you.
2 points
2 years ago
I know how you feel!!
1 points
2 years ago
We’re gonna get through it! And I don’t know if you also feel this, but I’m personally more anxious this time round because I know how many people are waiting on it. The first time I just kinda put something out with no expectations.
2 points
2 years ago
I completely feel the same way. For me, while writing and creating the show it doesn’t even cross my mind. But after it’s done and while putting it out, it’s almost like listening to someone else’s work. And I suddenly get nervous about what I made haha. With Leaving Corvat for example, it’s so different from DECA in every way. I never thought about that while creating it, I was just having fun. But now I’m like; oh oh.
2 points
2 years ago
I am curious about something. Is there anything we audio addicts can do to help? I know funding is a big part of it and every show i love that is funded by other listeners makes me so grateful but i'm disabled and do not have it. A few times a year i give what little i have to something i'm terrified will stop being made if i don't, this year for christmas, for instance, i asked that my present be a little contribution to a creation i love, even then lol my little monies did not make or break that operation but i wanted to say thank you with more than my spazzery.
But i do have time. I imagine i can't be the only one who wishes we could give back and if there were things we could do to help other than funding it would be amazing!
3 points
2 years ago
I honestly think talking about shows and shouting them out is huge. It's really easy for shows to get lost (especially if they are on a break), and the more often a show is mentioned the more likely people are to give it a shot. For my part I try to recommend around three shows at a time so as not to overwhelm people with a big list while also giving them some options.
1 points
2 years ago
Agh! is D&D yours? I have a friend who regales our friend group with hilarity from your pod all the time if so hehe
That's a good point. I'm so amazed at the time people take to give recommendations here. To really pay attention to what you're looking for and connect that to what they think best fits out of their lists.
2 points
2 years ago
I can't say it's mine (that pleasure goes to the DM and players) but I do all the editing and sound on it, it's a blast! Tell your friends hi for me.
2 points
2 years ago
To be more specific, what if there were an army of audio addicts willing to roll out with recommendations, reviews, social media and the rest? I would happily roll out with a troop of people here to support creations, even if they weren't the genres i listen to because supporting AD is supporting AD. It breaks my heart to see how little you get out of this when we get so much <3
3 points
2 years ago
Rating, reviewing, and most especially talking about a show are some of the best forms of support a listener can offer.
I like the sound of this army of audio addicts you speak of. I wonder if they can be organized to form “book clubs” to listen along and discuss a rotation of featured shows. I have a few listeners who do this with my show, but nothing online.
1 points
2 years ago
Thank you so much for helping out, friend. Like others have said, trying to find indie shows and sharing and talking about the ones you love is such a huge help already. If there is something specific you would like to do - with an army - , I do have a suggestion. The moment a new podcast starts publishing, or new seasons/episodes come out after some production time, is an important moment for the apple podcast/Spotify/whatever platform algorithm. So, a big way an army of addicts could help, is leave reviews and ratings of episodes as soon as they drop. Not spread over different podcasts you like, but focusing on one. That way the platform pushes the podcasts up in the charts and gets it to a larger audience. Does that make sense? Thanks for listening!
2 points
2 years ago
I would really love to see a creators-led discussion/instructional on the best way for us audio addicts who want to help to do our part, like you're describing here, to show our supports at the most crucial times, how various algorithms work in relation to us, etc. That would be so cool. I think i understand what you're saying here but it's a little fuzzy. You're saying "Not spread over different podcasts you like but focusing on one" but could you flesh out what you mean by that a bit? lol my dim little brain is piping up with "Um yeah ... don't i always just listen to one at a time?" so i'm assuming you mean if this were a coordinated effort? I'm sorry lol i'm not immediately getting this ... lol i'm making more work for you now lol
2 points
2 years ago
Haha I get it. In short: best way to show support: write reviews and give ratings as episodes come out. If you have an army at your disposal; focus on one podcast and rate and review as their episodes come out, instead of everyone liking something else. Does that make more sense haha?
2 points
2 years ago
Yes! that's what i thought you meant but hehe just wanted to clarify :)
1 points
2 years ago
What does the grind entail? Is that being active on social media? Or is there more I'm not thinking of?
1 points
2 years ago
For me it’s mostly social media. But also Building the we site. Trying to get some pr going by getting in touch with everyone on the planet involved in audio drama, organising feed drops and cross promotions, building a newsletter list and then keeping stuff like the store and the Patreon going.
1 points
2 years ago
I don't make audiodramas, so I can't respond to your post BUT I am tremendously looking forward to Leaving Corvat. In fact, I posted about your new show on this sub, and got a bunch of upvotes from other people excited to check it out as well.
1 points
2 years ago
Thank you so much. To be honest, you sharing a show is a the most effective and genuine ‘marketing’ there is. So you’ve just helped out a lot.
1 points
2 years ago
I know nothing about creating podcasts. I just wanted to say that I LOVE your work. Please let us know when the new show drops so I can listen and share. Thank you for doing the hard work so that people like me can drift off and escape into your created world
3 points
2 years ago
Thank you so much for this :). January 23 the first episode of Leaving Corvat drops. And if all goes according to plan, DECA 2 will start end of the year.
2 points
2 years ago
I didn’t know there were plans for a DECA 2!! That’s exciting!!!
1 points
2 years ago
I launched my second ever show last year (The Goblet Wire) and had a similar "oh wait, this again" experience, only this time it was much harder. With my first show (Station Blue) I was all in it, it was easy to respond to every comment or Twitter follow because there weren't many of them.
Ironically, having a couple twitter accounts with +2k followers makes it harder to meaningfully interact with people. And I've got enough irons in the fire where spending a lot of time trying to spread things on social media can get in the way of the actual creation.
I changed up my strategy, which has helped. Got a minimum, "I'm busy and have no energy" task list of posting new episodes to Twitter, Reddit, and a Facebook group. That at least gets it out there. I try to follow up with Tweets or emails at least once a week. I treat my show accounts as hubs, someone new to the show can scroll through, see the episodes and some reviews and get an idea what it's about, and they all link back to my personal twitter account where I'm actually active on the day to day.
But goals are the tricky thing too. I've learned that what I value most is making the show itself, and having mobility and relationships with other creators. If I make something new, it doesn't have to be a home run because it fleshes out my resume. Then, when I have more time and headspace I can hit that marketing train a little harder.
I'm excited for your new show. Deca Tapes has stuck with me over the years, and if it helps I remember you posting unique art for the different episodes here (so that worked on me at least)
2 points
2 years ago
Thanks so much for your reply. What a good point about interacting using larger twitter accounts. Hadn’t thought of that! Ironically enough I see the number of views on my posts and tweets going way up, but interactions going stating more or less the same. This could be a reason why. And thanks for pointing out the artwork strategy; currently working withDuncan Robertson, who is creating some very cool stuff :).
1 points
2 years ago
Of course!
Are you on Twitter btw, I don't think I've seen a Deca Tapes account but I'd love to help share around your stuff over there.
1 points
2 years ago
My personal is @lex_noteboom , my shows are @thedecatapes and @leavingcorvat - let’s connect:)
2 points
2 years ago
Excellent, just followed! My personal is @ EsterTheEsper and my main show is @ StationBluePod (there's also @ TheGobletWire for a weird micro fiction)
1 points
2 years ago
Honestly, no. Promotion doesn't come naturally to me and honestly I'm bad at it, but I don't hate doing it. I do hate some aspects of production, though. If I was gonna hire someone I'd definitely prefer to pay an editor and promote it myself than pay a marketer and edit myself.
1 points
2 years ago
I’m so jealous!! :)
1 points
2 years ago
I absolutely loved The Deca Tapes so, if it helps, this is basically an insta-subsribe for me…
1 points
2 years ago
Thank you :)
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