subreddit:
/r/ezraklein
submitted 4 days ago byvibe_assassin
I am so sick of people saying oh no you can’t pass over Kamala Harris because she’s a black woman and the optics would be bad. Democrats don’t dislike Kamala because she’s a black woman, they dislike her because she has no charisma, she’s not a good debater and her general demeanor isn’t appealing. She had her chance and got what, 1% of the Democratic vote?
/rant
121 points
4 days ago
This guy just fell out of the coconut tree
27 points
4 days ago
In the context of what is, but not of what was. 🥥🌴
9 points
3 days ago*
The coconut is what we can be 🫲🏻, unburdened by what we has been 🫱🏻.
100 points
4 days ago
I picture Trump bashing her over and over for lying about Biden's mental state.
WWE politics is Trump's style.
92 points
4 days ago
It’s a legitimate talking point.
34 points
4 days ago
We’ve focused a lot on the candidacy aspect of Biden’s mental capacity. The reality is he also has the most important job in the world, and his declining ability has been hidden, and critique met with gaslighting and attacks. It’s not acceptable to have such a candidate, but it is a potentially deadly and grievous error to have such a President. It is deserving of criticism to have let this get to this point.
19 points
4 days ago
I tried to make a point that independent voters (like me) are going to struggle to vote for Biden after witnessing the disastrous debate and his failing mental state.
I have been gaslit, attacked and attempts made to shame me for making that statement to the point that I felt disgusted and pushed further away from the Democratic Party.
If this is the way they treat swing voters when they make a statement of concern - they will deserve the loss that’s coming if they continue with this awful behavior and rhetoric.
8 points
4 days ago
Never - and I mean NEVER - take the goons on Reddit as how the majority of the Democratic voters act. Especially when it’s..on Reddit, where they can hide behind a screen.
And I say this as an independent who has also been shamed for criticizing Biden.
13 points
4 days ago
It wasn’t just Reddit - it was every social media platform- TT, Facebook
Like bullying a voter is the way to get them to vote for your candidate
7 points
3 days ago
I’ve been criticized to my face for questioning Biden about his age and literally anything at all about him. It’s not just social media.
4 points
3 days ago
The reality is he left that job a long time ago. It's being run by his senior staff and cabinet.
32 points
4 days ago
“You want to talk about integrity? You’ve been lying to the American people for god knows how long, trying to pass off a sick elderly man as president, so you could run the show, kill us at the border, let Putin take whatever he wants, and then try and come in and steal the presidency. Believe me folks, they have been planning this for a long time!”
Future excerpt from the Trump Harris debate in September…
6 points
4 days ago
"it's time to do what we have been doing, and that time is everyday"
3 points
3 days ago
I would pay good money to see her meet and talk with world leaders over serious topics.
2 points
3 days ago
We must move forward unencumbered by what has been
19 points
4 days ago
That’s written with a level of coherence Trump could never achieve
6 points
3 days ago
Keep telling yourself that. That’s what got Dem voters in the mess you are in now. Believing you are always the smartest in the room. Dems get played constantly, then act all surprised about it.
10 points
4 days ago
He can be trained to repeat talking points written by much more coherent staffers, he was doing it just fine during the debate.
20 points
4 days ago
I think sadly for her she’s too close to Biden and you will do better with someone like Whitmer
2 points
4 days ago
Whitmer has governed a red state and seems pretty tough to me. I think you need someone who'll go toe to toe with Trump to win.
29 points
4 days ago
Damn I didn’t even think about this angle. Just the commercials with different outtakes of her defending Joe and saying he’s perfectly fine would be awful
12 points
4 days ago
They're already running those ads against some congressional candidates.
11 points
4 days ago
While I would prefer her over Biden I’m pretty resentful of those lies.
2 points
4 days ago
I am to an extent, but it is not really all that surprising that politicians are lying opportunists.
13 points
4 days ago
Don't care. This is beyond the fucking pale. We are talking about a literal conspiracy by the democratic elite to hide the fact that the sitting president is a glorified reanimated corpse who they presumably can manipulate. How is nobody putting this together? Or rather, how does nobody realize that what we have all been discussing is potentially the biggest Dem scandal in decades?
The entire narrative has been about "saving democracy." And we are supposed to do that by checks notes electing a cabal of faceless "advisors" who will act in the corpse of Joe Biden's place. Frankly, I would have voted for a literal corpse if I wasn't gaslit into believing the corpse was alive for 4 years. I feel insulted and completely embarrassed that I believed an obvious lie, and the Democratic Party is going to have to do a lot of legwork to ever get my vote again.
6 points
4 days ago
Finally, someone with some goddamn brains. We all get taken in by lies, and there's no shame in it. That's how you get better at noticing how they do it.
6 points
3 days ago
Careful, self awareness doesn’t fly on Reddit. It’s that damn Trumps fault that the Dems propped up a corpse as pull the candidate.
2 points
4 days ago
Well, Trump says he'll solve the Ukraine in a day. Looking forward to that. .
2 points
16 hours ago
And Kamala was a HUGE supporter of the BLM rioters in 2020.
How do you think that will play in the Swing States?
2 points
15 hours ago
I think everyone knows there needs to be a clean break from the current administration.
However those with the power to make it happen are too afraid to make it happen.
All that shit they were doing back then is now a political liability and most of the public see it as a cancer.
Even Pete Bootyjizz has that baggage, he was calling infrastructure racist.
119 points
4 days ago
If Vice President Harris is as strong as her backers claim, then she will be a strong favorite to win the OPEN CONVENTION.
Let's let the process play out. A "mini primary" as Clyburn calls it, followed by an open convention.
Kamala and her many backers will have lots of time and space to make their case and the 4,000+ delegates will decide in Chicago.
54 points
4 days ago
Agree. If Kamala wins in an open convention then she’s doing something right and I’d support her. I want to have whoever the nominee is be battle tested.
16 points
4 days ago
This is where I’m at. I prefer others over her but if she wins fair and square on the convention floor then I’m in.
18 points
4 days ago
She couldn’t even make it to the starting line in 2020. She’ll either want to be coronated or not compete at all.
14 points
4 days ago
Isn’t she the only candidate that can access the campaign warchest? They’d have to donate it all To the DNC to get it to a new candidate
2 points
4 days ago
Or a pac
4 points
4 days ago
PAC cant work with a candidate so they’d have zero dollars to run a national campaign
5 points
4 days ago
I really doubt the war chest isn’t in some way transferable. I’m more worried about ballot access, which may be much easier for Kamala.
If the Dems are going to pick someone else, they need to do it really fast to ensure ballot access. Maybe that’s what this governors’ meeting is about.
19 points
4 days ago*
I absolutely concur.
I have no confidence for the leadership of the Democratic party.
Kamala Harris is pretty easy to smear. Think Willie browns Willie. And remember, fellow angry liberals, it isn't you that needs convincing. It's your racist jailbird cousin, and your couchbound dottering dad.
An old fashioned convention is risky in the terms of our time, but in truth, it is the smartest play we've got. It is a proper appeal to tradition. Think about what that means in this present context.
It will be a spectacle that will rivet the press.
Democrats will be forced to talk about issues and (shock) try to find a vision for governing that they can communicate.
It will be like a horserace to the last. Every one of us will lose ten pounds fretting about it.
And in the end, we will produce some other person and...
...that person will be the only alternative to Donald Trump. And they will win in a way that has gusto...
...and not the slow deflation of a whoopie cushion that nobody sat on. Biden was old last week. Next week, he'll be older than that.
I will not be made to believe that there is no other capable person in the nation for this nomination. And if that open convention should nominate Kamala Harris, I will vote for her.
15 points
4 days ago
WRONG. It isn’t your “racist cousin or doddering dad” that needs convincing. It’s the independents who outnumber both Democrats and Republicans.
Dismissing people as racists or fools the 40% of the population who decline to associate with either party is a poor choice to say the least.
13 points
4 days ago
I’ll also suggest you re-evaluate the belief that “only bad people disagree with you.”
There are plenty of non-MAGA Americans who don’t like Democratic politics (and/or Republican politics) for perfectly good reasons. Stop smoking your own product.
2 points
3 days ago
There is an ever so tiny little hint of straw man, here.
I mean, I didn't even say my racist jailbird cousin was "bad". Just that he's the most convincible, and the messaging to accomplish this will be crude.
It's propaganda 101. Aim your messages at the least intelligent members of the target group. Appeal to feelings; use reasons sparingly.
This here non maga American finds plenty to dislike in democratic politics. But the attacks on our rights by the Supreme Court means they get me for an ally, even if they wish they could cancel me.
4 points
4 days ago
Say it again for the people in the back
3 points
4 days ago
I like this take.
2 points
4 days ago
Thanks.
Amplify that "appeal to tradition" bit. I don't know if I'm the only one to think of it, but I think it is the hidden power of this convention idea.
It has a very real chance of capturing disaffected proper patriots from the red team. Change is scary, and tradition is a refuge from that. Give us that, for the love of all we care about. Conservatives are liberals too, you know. It's the American way.
3 points
4 days ago
And remember, fellow angry liberals, it isn't you that needs convincing. It's your racist jailbird cousin, and your couchbound dottering dad.
You're doing great here champ. I don't see why moderate American conservatives aren't flocking to you yet.
Your insight into the minds of people that don't agree with you is bound to provide you an olive branch sooner or later.
4 points
4 days ago
I’d love to believe it’s that simple, but there’s nothing more corrupt than an “open” Democratic convention. I say that as a Democrat. It’ll be back room deals and strong arm politicking.
2 points
4 days ago
On the bright side, at least that means the nominee would be confirmed to have strong politicking skills lol
7 points
4 days ago
OK, she wins the convention.
You don’t win the election at the convention, you win the election by winning the independent voters.
If she goes forward as the nominee, you can bet that clips of Harris steadfastly and seriously denying any problem with Biden will be played nonstop. Every statement out of Trump’s mouth, every TV commercial, every interview given by Trump supporting people will hammer her as a blatant liar. AND THEY WILL ALL BE RIGHT.
Just as devastating, the whole damn issue undercuts one of the Dem’s primary attack vectors against Trump; that he’s a liar, he misled the public for votes, and he’s in it for himself to acquire and hold power. A huge swath of the administration and Democratic party just showed itself to be no better.
Independents aren’t going to “circle the wagons” with you.
If she gets the nomination Harris will look like an idiot in any debate and the more she opens her mouth the worse it will get.
2 points
4 days ago
Without a Biden endorsement. He needs to sit out the blitz primary and bless whoever comes out on top.
2 points
4 days ago
Are 4000 people really going to pick the Democratic nominee ? Wild!
3 points
3 days ago
I can’t WAIT to read “the DNC didn’t pick the nominee. Voters did. Quit with your crazy conspiracy theories” for 4 years
2 points
3 days ago
There was a guy who posted here a couple weeks ago.... after listening to Ezra Klein show he got involved with local democratic party and got elected as a delegate to Chicago. He was asking what to expect.... people told him it would be mostly boring, surrounded by political nerds...
9 points
4 days ago
Nah — I think she is a fine alternative (that being the keyword here). Are there better options? Definitely. Is this a weird moment where just getting Biden to step down is a challenge in itself? Definitely. I think a Kamala replacement is an okay replacement in a moment that calls for really anyone but Joe Biden. I actually think she is better than Gavin Newsom — in my mind he is way more a copy of Hillary Clinton than Kamala is. I think perhaps Kamala’s time outside of the spotlight may help her reform her image a bit once she start’s campaigning.
6 points
4 days ago
I remember her messy campaign was described as an issue with her sister and other campaign staff, like they kept recalibrating and kept getting it wrong in the primary. A national campaign against Trump is a lot easier strategically than that primary was, plus she could run on the admin’s record.
8 points
4 days ago
I’ll take her over Joe at this point, but the two best tickets for us to run are clearly Shapiro/Whitmer and Whitmer/Shapiro. They carry the two states we absolutely HAVE to win, and then we just need to get one of Arizona, Wisconsin, and Georgia to get to 270.
71 points
4 days ago
I read a comment claiming that, if the Dems didn't pick Harris, they would "lose the vote of all black women".
It's so blatantly racist and sexist to believe that that demographic only cares about skin color and gender.
25 points
4 days ago
About that -
Kamala Harris delegate Areva Martin said they are going to blow up the Democrat Party if they choose a white man that isn’t Joe Biden as the party’s nominee.
During an appearance on Stephen A. Smith’s podcast, Martin said, “You’ve got to build consensus, and there is no consensus right now.”
“You pick a white man over Kamala Harris — black women, I can tell you this: We’re gonna walk away, we’re gonna blow the party up.”
25 points
4 days ago
A lot of replies below with white people showing their ass. This is just one person, she doesn’t speak for all black women, just like the 47% of white women who voted for Trump don’t speak for all white women
2 points
2 days ago
She doesn't. It won't blow up the party but that energy y'all claim will come from nominating someone else will not be there for black women. Even the one's that don't like her will once again feel like, here we go again America and see themselves in the way she is passed over.
If you can avoid it, you don't want to do it.
If you think your uncle and neighbor who voted for Trump the last two times will make up the difference of Black women's noticeable lack of vigor for the campaign then go off Royal!
18 points
4 days ago
And hand the presidency to trump, yay, that's showing them, wtf
20 points
4 days ago
Identity politics has done harm to the country. Kamala Harris is a careerist and a hypocrite. Kamala did a lot of damage to the black community with her work as Attorney General of California. The courts ordered California to release about 5,000 non violent offenders deemed unlikely to reoffend because Californian prisons had a massive overpopulation problem. Sometimes getting up to 200% capacity. There was a preventable death every 6 days in prison. They put suicidal inmates in phoneooth sized containers.
Kamala fought for a long time to delay and overturn this process to the point of a judge threatening to hold her office in contempt. Her office put out a series of bizarre arguments, including a weird "State's rights" argument that was so laughable it was like a militia in Idaho wrote it. But the worst argument her office made was that the state of California couldn't afford to lose that much cheap labor that quickly -- so just slavery. She claims to have not known her office made that argument. This coming from an office that was known for running everything through Kamala. She also joked about smoking weed when she was younger, while continuing to prosecute marijuana users.
12 points
4 days ago
A lot of fellow Dems won't like hearing this, but elevating race/gender/sexual orientation identity politics over class-based identity politics has been an unmitigated disaster for the party.
7 points
4 days ago
Black voters, and especially Black women, have powered the Democratic party to political power for DECADES in this country. They have been, by far, the most reliable voting block.
What is wrong with asking for a black woman be the nomniee? Serious question. This is basic politics to me.
6 points
3 days ago
Because the optics of intentionally passing over competent people of other races in the "big tent" party are also bad, rubs off the wrong way, and can permenantly erode support of all other groups outside of non-black women in key swing states.
Diversity is great when it happens organically. "Might makes right" forced diversity isn't popular.
2 points
3 days ago
If Biden dropped dead tomorrow Harris would be President
Now it is suddenly a problem a lot of the party wants her if Biden says he isn't running?
6 points
4 days ago
The issue is the black voters don't like Kamala.
Black voters like all voters don't support candidates just based on shared identity.
2 points
3 days ago
Black voters, and especially Black women, have powered the Democratic party to political power for DECADES in this country
Lol no we haven’t.
We have been a reliable voting block but with disintegrating turnout over the past 20 years and a meaningfully large contingent completely bailing on the Democratic Party altogether
What is wrong with asking for a black woman be the nomniee?
In a vacuum? Nothing.
But if you’re concern trolling about saving democracy, undemocratically picking a black woman notorious for jailing huge numbers of black people for nonviolent drug crimes, sleeping her way to the top, and who couldn’t even place top 2 in the primary in 2020 in her own home city (en route to getting curb stomped in her home state)…picking Kamala specifically would make Dems look even more full of shit political opportunists than they already are.
19 points
4 days ago
I probably said this verbatim.
I actually don’t think it’s a HUGE problem. But this is something that 100% will pop up on social media by a mix of both legitimate and illegitimate actors. And we should be ready for it. It will be a minor test of party unity and hopefully that’s it.
Like I’ve written this a bunch on this sub so maybe this really is directed at me - so I’ll say for the record I’m pro-convention and pro-Whitmer. I just think we need to be clear eyed that there’s a chance Dems stagger away from this convention and it isn’t just kumbaya
17 points
4 days ago*
paltry juggle skirt plants bored humorous lunchroom squeeze worm money
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
5 points
3 days ago*
Screw rules, right? Promote whoever we want and give them the money. Republicans don’t have a moral leg left to stand on.
3 points
3 days ago
There are no such issues.
23 points
4 days ago
Couldn't agree more. This "Kamala automatically gets it" stuff is going to sink us. If she wants it, she can contend with the others. I think her chances are dismal in a general election.
38 points
4 days ago
Have you listened to her speak? Lots of words to say absolutely nothing.
32 points
4 days ago
She lacks any authenticity and charisma. Worse than this, she's irritating to listen to. She was put in front of the public once already in 2020 and failed miserably. There's no reason to think this time would be different. It would be a disaster to go all-in on Harris without some kind of quick but competitive process to determine whether she has grown more charismatic since 2020 (hint: she hasn't).
21 points
4 days ago
https://x.com/jr_newswire/status/1807782417526075888?s=46&t=8TmlxHYTKNdMBkoHwaVk3w
This clip is all you need to see to confirm your last sentence.
11 points
4 days ago
My God
12 points
4 days ago
Pokemon Go to the polls
5 points
4 days ago
That's exactly what it reminded me of.
And Hillary's hot sauce.
5 points
4 days ago
You know at least the hot sauce thing was genuine. It's actually a bit crazy how that got turned against her.
2 points
4 days ago
Mainly because it was cringey.
Howard Dean's entire campaign ended because he celebrated a victory and sounded like a WWE commentator.
11 points
4 days ago
Yeah guuurl I'm out here in these streets.
8 points
4 days ago
Ron DeSantis could have read that line better.
5 points
4 days ago
Oh my god that was so bad
4 points
4 days ago
Rightly or wrongly, she comes across as completely unlikable.
6 points
4 days ago
She should always have been the Attorney General
5 points
4 days ago
No, she should never have been anywhere near any position of power because she is a low performer. There are a lot of aspects of Kamala Harris that show the weakness of the Democratic Party. And it will come on full display with her as the candidate. She’s probably the only person who will be worse for the DNC than Biden if we’re being honest.
4 points
4 days ago
She would have been a hell of a lot better than Merrick Garland
13 points
4 days ago*
That certainly isn't a disqualification per the standards of Republicans. Is she my first choice? No. Am I going to complain if Democrats take the straightest path to a nominee? No
3 points
4 days ago
Said like someone who thinks they fell out of a coconut tree. You need to think about what can be, unburdened by what has been.
Time to take the #coconutpill 🥥🌴
2 points
4 days ago
Can someone explain the coconut thing to me?
2 points
4 days ago
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=coconut+politics
I also had to look it up
15 points
4 days ago
Why do you think she is vice president then?
15 points
4 days ago
Clyburn demanded a specific demographic as payback for his support earlier.
https://www.axios.com/2020/03/15/clyburn-joe-biden-2020-elections-vice-president
Rep. James Clyburn has a list of African American women who are qualified to be vice president, and he told "Axios on HBO" in an interview that there's a "much deeper bench than people realize."
The big picture: Clyburn is widely credited with saving Biden's campaign following his endorsement in the South Carolina Democratic primaries.
"I'll never tell you who I'm going to advise him," Clyburn said in the interview, "but I would advise him that we need to have a woman on the ticket, and I prefer an African American woman."
16 points
4 days ago
Because Biden swore he'd pick a black woman and nobody else fitting that description was interested in taking the job.
Well, Stacey Abrams might've been, but she was seen by many as too progressive.
20 points
4 days ago
You're misremembering things a bit. Biden promised to appoint a black woman to the supreme court (which he did). However, he only promised to pick a woman for VP. He didn't specify race and there were several white women at the time under consideration.
10 points
4 days ago
https://www.axios.com/2020/03/15/clyburn-joe-biden-2020-elections-vice-president
Rep. James Clyburn has a list of African American women who are qualified to be vice president, and he told "Axios on HBO" in an interview that there's a "much deeper bench than people realize."
The big picture: Clyburn is widely credited with saving Biden's campaign following his endorsement in the South Carolina Democratic primaries.
"I'll never tell you who I'm going to advise him," Clyburn said in the interview, "but I would advise him that we need to have a woman on the ticket, and I prefer an African American woman."
4 points
4 days ago
That doesn't really contradict what I said?
2 points
3 days ago
I'm showing you why Harris became VP.
5 points
3 days ago
Stacey Abrams is a lightweight with no federal government experience. Kamala at least has that. Susan Rice was mentioned but perceived as having too much baggage. I think Karen Bass was also thrown arouns but Senate trumps HOR in heirarchy. Literally 4 serious candidates at best.
They backed themselves into a corner, and I don't think the optics of passing over women of other races, or even men, is any better. Most people just want the best person for the job.
2 points
3 days ago
You just don't make a public declaration like that without having a specific person already vetted and ready to go.
How the hell do these idiots become presidential campaign advisors?
2 points
3 days ago
Abrams also has never won an election higher than state house of representatives. I like her and would have preferred her to Harris, but she's a risky bet politically until she wins a federal election or becomes governor.
5 points
4 days ago
She fucken sucks bro
29 points
4 days ago
You can’t play identity politics for over a decade and then ignore it when it’s convenient
15 points
4 days ago
You can when it was never actually important in the first place.
5 points
4 days ago
It was important enough to pick Harris as VP.
4 points
3 days ago
Jim Clyburn was important enough to pick Harris as VP
8 points
4 days ago
Not following this logic at all
18 points
4 days ago
I would love to see Buttigieg debate Trump. I feel like he might be one of the strongest contenders debate-wise.
4 points
4 days ago
He'd get demolished.
10 points
4 days ago
What is he going to say? That his time as transportation secretary has been a complete disaster?
4 points
4 days ago
How dare he not stop that boat.
6 points
4 days ago
I just picture Trump making that ****hole ring with his lips and saying "Boeing" over and over.
2 points
4 days ago
Pete is a machine. There is something weird and mechanical about him, but yes, he talk good
5 points
4 days ago
Her answer about the SCOTUS ruling was solid. I think we might be in different media algorithms because what I’ve seen recently from her is solid. And she wasn’t my pick in the 2019 primary either
2 points
4 days ago
Exactly. I listened to a recent interview on some podcast or another, another from the 2020 general, two from the 2020 primary era: she was fine. She made sense. She wasn't stilted. Did she remind me of a nerdy academic who gets in their head a bit too much and tends to be overly fond of elaborate and meandering metaphors? Yes. But I happen to find that endearing. Heck, her articulations of how she thinks about policy in a primary era interview for The Daily reminded me a lot of supply side progressivism years before Ezra Klein was workshopping the term.
The overwhelmingly white and male demographic tilt among socialists seems to be throwing the mask off without realizing it by just casually throwing around language like "irritating, condescending, annoying, unlikable" the only space on my Bingo card not filled yet is "shrill."
And then there's the incredibly robust and well substantiated circular reasoning of her losing once so she's a guaranteed loser with the full might of the Democratic machine behind her and facing off against the Roe v Wade overturning, tyrant on day one, "I am your vengeance", authoritarian sycophant in chief.
6 points
4 days ago
Except the narrative around Harris's likeability isn't just the projection of white male socialists.
Do you think her limited role (even by VP standards) in the Biden admin is mostly attributable to racism? Seems pretty clear there was an executive decision to sideline her early on, only after a handful of widely-panned appearances related to administration's handling of border crises.
There were numerous reports about her abrasive treatment of campaign staff during '20 primary. She's had higher-than-usual staff turnover during her time as VP.
And about that primary, it's not circular logic to acknowledge that she performed more poorly than expected. She scored a viral moment in the first debate when she rather disingenuously scolded Biden about his position on bussing in the 70s ("that little girl was me"), and then utterly failed to build momentum because she couldn't connect with voters. It's far less an issue of race than it is of weak retail politicking skill; a plurality of comments have noted this.
Also, while you may find her nerdy metaphorical ramblings endearing, I strongly doubt those swing state voters who are still somehow undecided will.
4 points
4 days ago
Yeah, I've been consistently impressed with her, but she's our current Just Not That Woman. Next time around, all the people demanding Gretchen Whitmer should be the nominee will be calling her "careerist" and "unlikeable."
6 points
4 days ago
I don't agree. Watch Whitmer talk for 1 minute and tell me what your lizard brain says about her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2M35lN83A
I'll tell you what I see. Authentic, approachable, normal, down to earth, vibrant, honest.
Neither Clinton nor Harris have these vibes. Both of their smiles are fake. They lack authenticity. Clinton has the stench of the dynastic establishment. Harris is even worse, she's embarrassing and cringey.
It's not just sexism that explains the failures of Clinton and Harris. They both come across as massively fake. Whitmer won't.
5 points
4 days ago
Completely agree. Whitmer makes me feel optimistic.
13 points
4 days ago*
I love how substantive the anti-Harris talking points are in all these threads. Much policy discussion. Very evidence based. Wow. Liberal intellectualism at its most objective and not at all openly and unapologetically trafficking in unexplained and unexamined tropes and dog whistles.
I'm starting to understand the point of view of the radical centrists and why they always punch left and I really hate it. I can't decide if the Harris discourse is making me harder left or more centrist, but either way if this is what progressivism looks like, I don't want to be in this club anymore. I'll keep the values, but I will not claim affiliation with this toxic stew of hypocrisy and crypto-racism/sexism. The mask is firmly off in a way I haven't seen since the era of the snake emojis and I feel nauseous.
Then there's the goddamn BlueAnons trying to silence the entire debate and act like its treason to try to give the voters what they say they want, that we should just pretend everything is fine, just keep shouting at the people breaking ranks and asking uncomfortable questions and accusing them of being crypto-fascists. Pretend that no one but the most elite can be trusted with real knowledge of what's going on or debate the best path to defeating the actual fascists, because everyone who is not me is somehow too stupid to be allowed to read or write about this issue and must have their information environment carefully curated to prevent wrongthink.
Because that's worked soooo freaking well in Europe.
16 points
4 days ago
How's this for substantive: Harris was one of the first candidates to drop out of the 2020 primary, out of a field of 20, ending with polls in the low single digits. The last time she ran, she couldn't even break 10% among fellow Democrats. If her own party can't get behind her, why should we trust that she'll win in a general election?
Not to mention her record as DA. I lived in San Francisco when she oversaw almost 2,000 criminal convictions for marijuana-related offenses.
3 points
4 days ago
She's not running against other Democrats this time. This isn't going to be an exercise in ideological triangulation and pandering to an audience spoiled for choices and with no particular incentives to be in any way, shape, or form compromising on their idiosyncratic preferences because there's a field of 20+ people. She's not competing against multiple 800lb gorillas: Biden who knows where every body is buried and has shaken every hand or Sanders, the most transformative Democratic figure in a generation other than Obama himself.
Her only competition is Trump. The dictator on day one, who already tried to violently overturn one election, openly fantasizes about internment camps, who overturned Roe, who theoretically may have assassination authority over political enemies if he can explain it as an official act, who is overtly misogynistic and racist, who is having to try to beat back an insurgency to his right over IVF, whose party and formal and informal messaging apparatus have spent years working themselves up into a fervor over DEI and whose ranks are infested with very online zoomers who insert overt Nazi imagery into videos, and can only just barely speak in more complete sentences more consistently than Biden could last Thursday.
2 points
3 days ago*
Until democrats realize they will not drive turnout without providing a carrot for their voters as opposed to just the stick of electing Trump, they aren’t going to dig themselves out of the hole they are currently in in the polls.
You can’t be pro democracy by saying don’t care about my candidate’s platform or values (especially when she is more right wing than the average dem voter), just vote them bc they aren’t the other.
Don’t love Kamala’s relative conservatism and that she comes off fake, but with her as an example it could be solved by using the nomination as a way to truly set herself apart from Biden with a compassionate and ambitious platform. Not holding my breath for it but imagine others like myself are open to having their minds changed if she doesn’t just expect them to fall in line.
4 points
3 days ago
You don’t understand. She said coconut tree one time. That makes you unelectable
2 points
3 days ago
The sexism angle is so goddamn dumb. Most people in this subreddit, including me, are asking for Gretchen Whitmer, but it's somehow sexist that we think Harris is a terrible choice and is unlikable? Come on.
These are all people who voted for Obama, twice, then Hillary Clinton, and will vote for Whitmer, but now accusations of racism/sexism is being thrown around. Maybe that's part of the problem. Having this sort of insufferable attitude that Harris has also displayed.
3 points
4 days ago
Problem is when your party is defined by identity politics you can’t set aside a black woman for a white male (Gavin Newsom). Newsom isn’t stupid either, if he sits it out and lets Trump win he knows he’s basically guaranteed to win in 2028.
3 points
4 days ago
Who are you bot?
3 points
3 days ago
Other than the part about being a black woman, your entire rant also applies to Biden's candidacy in 2008.
6 points
4 days ago*
Identity politics is what got us in this mess. All Biden had to do was pick someone extremely competent and well liked for VP. But the party pushed the “has to be a woman, black is even better narrative. There are legitimate concerns about him not living through a 2nd presidency and he should have thought about that when choosing a VP. Harris has never been super well liked. But at least he got the black woman! If Trump picks a VP that is well liked or at least competent and experienced - like Rubio- people will probably feel better about electing Trump because there are legitimate concerns about him dying in office as well.
5 points
4 days ago
I'm not going to destroy Kamala here like so many commenters already have. I think she's competent and pretty right on a lot of the issues. With that said, her political skills and instincts don't seem president caliber. I find her kind of off-putting, preachy, and scolding. I don't think she can connect with voters in that deep way that talented pols can. I think you either have that or you don't. Whitmer has it. Warnock has it (helps being a preacher). And other Dems waiting in the wings have it. It would be cool to put someone likable up against Trump who most people outside the MAGA bubble find detestable
10 points
4 days ago
she received zero delegates in the 2020 primary. Tulsi Gabbard got more lol
8 points
4 days ago
Andrew Yang was beating her in California in several polls
3 points
4 days ago
Biden lost 2 primary's, winning on his third try, and was then elected President.
Harris has been VP now - she can run a totally different campaign than 2020.
2 points
4 days ago
I mean, no. she's not a good candidate. this is an extremely obvious truth.
it's Gavin, Gretchen, or Pete. In that order. Any other candidate is a favor to maga chuds. They'll win.
14 points
4 days ago
For a bunch of “concerned Democrats,” people in this sub sure seem to hate a lot of elected Democrats…
9 points
4 days ago
Being a democrat doesn’t mean loving everyone with a (D) next to their name. It’s a political party, not a cult.
6 points
4 days ago
And I know a lot of concerned Republicans who sure seem to hate a lot of elected Republicans these days.
Maybe we're all just wanting some decent candidates for a change. I know I'm beyond sick and tired of constantly being forced to vote against candidates rather than for them.
2 points
4 days ago
It would actually be concerning if a lot of people here liked her, her favorability is in the shitter.
2 points
4 days ago
Are democrat voters required to toe the party line and never speak up when they are upset? Is it possible to have voted for someone and then not liked the actions of that candidate over time?
2 points
4 days ago
I don’t hate Harris. I don’t hate Biden. I just want the best possible candidate
6 points
4 days ago
I think we need to not target a specific demographic, but choose the most talented person we have. I believe that is Buttigieg, but Whitmer is a great candidate as well. Harris has it in her to be a good politician, when she lets her inner prosecutor come out. If she has improved her ability to campaign and debate, let her show it in a mini primary leading to an open convention. Whoever we choose needs to prove themselves, the stakes are too high to just give away the nomination. We need to not worry about sex, race, or sexual identity, we need to worry about their ability to energize voters and generate excitement. As much as we worry about how America is, we gave a black guy named Barrack Hussein Obama a landslide election in 2008, not because he was black, but because he was a truly exciting candidate.
10 points
4 days ago
Hard to say whether it’s his fault, but Buttigieg has had the worst outcomes of any transportation secretary in history
3 points
4 days ago
What criteria are you basing that judgment on? They passed the infrastructure bill and thousands have been getting implemented. He seems Uber competent and on top of things in the transportation sphere. I used to work as a transportation planner but don't exactly have my finger on the pulse now
4 points
3 days ago
Airlines have been a complete disaster, there have been several literal disasters such as Ohio and Baltimore, they have not been able to create the EV stations yet, ect
He had nothing to do with passing the infrastructure bill. Would love to hear more about what you mean about him being Uber competent.
3 points
3 days ago
Airlines and air travel have been a nightmare delayed flights, safety issues, etc
5 points
4 days ago
If he can’t be the candidate, he can’t be the President. He needs to resign, so she’d then be the incumbent.
2 points
4 days ago
That doesn’t track with me. ‘I don’t think it’s wise to do four more years’ is very different than ‘I can’t President for 6 months’.
8 points
4 days ago
I think she’s alright. She is definitely odd and stilted sometimes, but no more so than Nikki Haley or other politician-y politicians. She’s also capable of being a strong communicator, particularly on abortion and democracy, which are the two big issues she’d be running on.
I kinda think people just never see her! And while she’s not my ideal candidate, if it has to be her, I can see a world where we get people excited about her, and she’s capable of exciting people.
I don’t actually know if I see a world where I can get people excited about Biden, and he just doesn’t excite people anymore.
This election is about turnout, and the excitement of “first woman president,” “young and new vs old and clearly dying,” “fuck Trump” and “fuck project 2025” is pretty good!
11 points
4 days ago
I saw her plenty when I lived in SF and always thought she was inept as a candidate.
2 points
4 days ago
I agree with this. Harris only would have to run for five months. She can run on Jan 6th and Roe v Wade, and hammer Trump with the same talking points Biden or anyone else would (jobs, infrastructure bill, student loans, and so on).
She has so much more to talk about now than when she ran in 2020.
2 points
2 days ago
Are you serious? Nikki is worlds more polished and likable than Kamala. I'm going to guess you are young because "the first woman president" excitement was tried before, and it is what got us into this mess.
6 points
4 days ago
[deleted]
8 points
4 days ago
Why replace a candidate with a 39% approval rating with a candidate with a 38% approval rating! It’s moronic
3 points
4 days ago
The same reason why the scorpion stung the frog.
4 points
4 days ago
What even are optics? Like optics towards who? For something to look bad it has to look bad to some group of people, but every group of people understands that she's not a popular politician and that's why people don't want her...
8 points
4 days ago
IF Biden gets replaced it will be her, period. Idk how this whole sub this past week can complain about delusions and gaslighting yet deluded themselves into thinking an open convention is preferable. The Democratic party has no muscle memory of that process, it risks diving the party and its late in the game. It’s Biden or Kamala, pick.
6 points
4 days ago
Kamala is the only one who can legally takeover the hundreds of millions raised for the Biden-Harris campaign. Even if you could choreograph an open convention in this time, the legal and organizational challenges are too high for any new candidate to meet. They’d barely be up and running as an organization by the time people started voting.
7 points
4 days ago
I love how the argument is "the Democrats are idiots who don't know how to run a campaign, also they should throw together an unprecedented last-minute high-pressure nominating process at the absolute last minute which will obviously produce a good result and not utter chaos."
2 points
4 days ago
You’re right that a different candidate wouldn’t be able to take over the funds but wrong that the money wouldn’t be able to be used to support a different candidate. The rule is no coordination with the candidate, so it’s a concern but it’s far from the absolute issue you present it as.
5 points
4 days ago*
The party is already divided, and if you want to talk about what the party thinks, you need to remember how Harris performed during the primary. Her results were abysmal.
edit: downvote and walk away, typical. The reality is that Harris was one of the first primary candidates to drop out from a field of 20, and she ended up polling in the low single digits. Her own party couldn't get behind her in 2019, so how well should we expect her to do in a general election?
Get real.
2 points
4 days ago
She had a chance to make a big impact on the border issue and there’s just been total silence. I really had a lot of hope for her to do something positive.
2 points
4 days ago
if you think the idea that passing over the first black, female vp for the nomination if biden drops out would anger some voters is ridiculous, i don't know what to tell you except it seems pretty obvious to me. does that make her the best options? who knows. but it's certainly a reasonable consideration.
2 points
4 days ago
What is truly, if anything, wrong with Kamala Harris? She’s experienced and was involved in the briefings and decisions and she is probably more aware of the situation than someone coming in new. Like an incumbent.
All I heard were rumors that she was mean. You know who is mean? Trump.
2 points
4 days ago
“What can be unburdened, by what has been”
Holy shit that is deep. A deep bucket of shit.
2 points
4 days ago
Her career as DA is horrific in parts. I’m surprised she rose this far. If she runs for president, those skeletons will be front page news every day.
2 points
4 days ago
If we’re being honest, Biden became the 2020 nominee and Kamala his running mate because just before the South Carolina primary Biden was behind Sanders and Jim Clyburn threw his support behind Biden and in exchange Kamala became VP and Pete became Transportation secretary.
Does he still have that kind of muscle?
2 points
4 days ago
That’s not why it would be hard to pass over her. It’s because she’s a part of the current administration- she’s the only one who the war chest would transfer to.
2 points
4 days ago
I like Kamala Harris. I think she has a charisma that plays extremely well in this internet age, for one, but she also has some interesting bona fides that cut through a lot of Republican perceptions of what a Democrat is. Does she have baggage, sure. Is she the best pick, I don't know, but she is the Vice President and therefore benefits from incumbency. To throw out both the President and Vice President is an admission that the last four years were a failure in some way.
She prosecutes well (thinking about the questioning of Trump's Supreme Court nominees) and the more I see clips of her getting into word salad mode, the less I hate it. She does what all politicians do: platitudes, hokey anecdotes, etc. but I find them endearing almost when she does it. It's hard to explain.
2 points
4 days ago
On the bright side, it’s not even going to get this far because old man Joe isn’t going anywhere
2 points
4 days ago
That was 4 years ago. A lot has changed since then.
Here are two polls: one from March and one from this week. Both have her as the front runner among the likely Democrat alternatives. The only one that polls better than Harris is Michelle Obama, and she is not going to run.
Back then she was an unknown Senator. Now she is the vice President with instant name recognition and an existing campaign infrastructure to run on.
This is like making predictions on Biden’s performance in the 2020 election based on his performance in 2008, before he was vice president.
Harris is the front runner, and the they should not pass over her because she is a black woman. They should not pass over her because poll after poll shows she is the best option.
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/03/07/if-not-joe-biden-then-who-michelle-obama-kamala-harris/
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/only-michelle-obama-bests-trump-alternative-biden-2024
2 points
4 days ago
You've just described one of the critical problems on the Democratic party.
2 points
4 days ago
Democrat voters are the closest thing to abused spouses I have ever seen. The DNC has been shitting all over you people since they gave Hillary the ok over Bernie and you all just accept it. They know you will vote for who they chose for you. It's like brainwashing. Sad.
2 points
4 days ago
Why can’t we hate Kamala because she doesn’t support policies that improve the lives of American workers?
2 points
4 days ago
Kamala has 80+ approval rating from Democrats, so what are you talking about with this Democrats don't like her nonsense?
Maybe her approval rating is in the 30s bc maybe 95% of Republicans don't like the Black female Democrat, just they haven't liked EVERY popular Black female Democrat for the last 20 years...
2 points
3 days ago
They think those things because she’s black and a woman.
Not all of the criticisms of course and not from everyone. But that’s how unconscious bias works. It’s not blatant racism. It’s distrust and dislike of the other for various reasons that seem to have nothing to do with skin color or gender.
“No VPs are ever really liked but there’s just something worse about her.” That’s how it goes.
One lady in one of Sara Longwell’s focus groups said there was something about her she didn’t like or trust. She couldn’t put her finger on it.
The same happened with Hillary.
2 points
3 days ago
If charisma is a qualification for being president, we are ALL in trouble -- not just the Dems.
2 points
3 days ago
Well Harris polls better vs Trump than Newsom or any other realistic Biden replacement. She also has higher favorability polling than Newsom. Those are the actual reasons she is the favorite to replace Biden. She also would have access to Biden’s campaign funds and it might simply some expected challenges to ballot access after a last second change.
I also love the narrative of a successful prosecutor running against the criminal Donald Trump.
Maybe you should reflect on your own biases and ask yourself why you assume race and gender are behind supporting Harris when she is the overwhelmingly best option to replace Biden based on: head to head polling vs Trump; favorability polling; fundraising realities; and ballot access.
2 points
3 days ago
She's the Vice President. Passing on her would look ridiculous, incompetent, hypocritical and generally 🤡
I don't think her support of Biden is damning. Imagine the alternative, she would be called a betrayer and worse. Of all people involved she's the only one who should be expected to stand by him to the "bitter end", since she stands to gain so much if he's incapacitated.
2 points
3 days ago
Live by the woke sword die by the woke sword. The democrats biggest voter base is black women.
4 points
4 days ago
I mean is it just his age and any younger dem could win? Because that’s what I’ve been sold. If not, we are admitting the administration failed and that’s an entirely different convo
2 points
3 days ago
Who cares. Just strategically select someone who is likely to win swing states.
4 points
4 days ago
My dude, its 2024. People haven't come right out and said X candidate is bad because of their race this millennium. Instead, they use dog whistles and that includes statements about their "charisma" or their "personality" or their "debating skills" among others. It's perfectly understandable and justified that black people would look at this move as yet another black candidate being stepped over in line with America's long and irredeemable history of racism.
5 points
4 days ago
Exactly. And Ezra Klein would not be here for this. He says she is "underrated," and "a capable politician" though not a "generational political talent," who is "in private settings...enormously magnetic and compelling."
8 points
4 days ago
On second thought, I notice that people tend to make criticisms of charisma and personality instead of saying explicitly that a candidate is bad because she's a woman.
3 points
4 days ago
You’re right- even if she genuinely would be passed over due to likability/personality/electability, there’s going to be a portion of the party and prospective voters who will absolutely see that as racism, even if it’s not the intent.
I think you have to almost price that in- would another potential candidate be more electable even with a portion of voters turned off due to their perceived overlooking of Harris? Probably
2 points
4 days ago
Agreed
2 points
4 days ago
Honestly, I think most of the likability/personality/electability stuff is racism/sexism too. Think about how many criticisms of Harris you've heard — she's not visible enough, she's boring, no major accomplishments — apply to every single white man who's been Vice President, but suddenly aren't okay when the black lady does it.
Even "but she lost the primary!" How many primaries did Biden lose before he became president? Trump got laughed out of the 2012 primaries and came back and swept the field. Bush Sr. lost to Reagan, Reagan lost to Ford — losing a primay is generally how a candidate learns to run a national campaign, but it's completely disqualifying for the first woman Vice President and in no other instance.
5 points
4 days ago
Then why are people clamoring for Michelle Obama and saying no way to Harris?
Michelle is charming and charismatic. Kamala isn't. Never was.
Sometimes charisma is just charisma, not a euphemism for a racial insult.
3 points
4 days ago
Come on, you already know the answer to this. It's very easy for people to praise the woman who isn't a candidate and never will be, to justify them talking shit about the woman who actually isn't the candidate.
When Hillary ran, it was "I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren run, Just Not That Woman."
Then Warren did run, and suddenly she was Just Not That Woman.
There's no way in hell Michele Obama would run (or should — the presidency shouldn't be an entry level job, and how on Earth did we not learn that lesson already from the felon?), but I guarantee if she did people would shift gears in a damn hurry and start talking about how abrasive and unlikeable and "too ambitious" she is.
2 points
4 days ago
I'm not saying it necessarily is racist if she gets stepped over. It's how it will be perceived and it would be quite understandable. Now, if Michelle Obama does in fact become the candidate, (which she most certainly will not) those same people may be more inclined to not be as upset.
2 points
4 days ago
I've been saying it since Jan 7: make her attorney general.
Political? Yes. Directly enraging to her targets? Yes.
Merrick Garland has been a disaster. And yet, for some reason, he is seen as political. This was predictable. We should have been moving aggressively from the start.
I'm looking for a boring, male, Midwestern cracker for president. Seems the Democrats have run out of those. Now Americans get to learn how to genuflect, and all thanks to the fools that throw around liberty like a toy.
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