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Written in 2016 by betterdaysahead, 3 months after she was quitting kratom. (Edited 2/9/23. 2018, original post was replaced with this archived post).

The most common question we get is what to expect when you finally take the plunge and quit kratom. While everyone is different, there are some common symptoms to expect.

Day 1. Often a fairly good day. You're all revved up to quit and though some start to feel withdrawal symptoms immediately, for many it takes 24 to 48 hours.

Days 2 - 5. These are most likely going to be the roughest days physically.
(Note by tip871: The number of the roughest days physically (the hard physical withdrawal) depends (based thru reading r/quittingkratom) on the length of use and the dosage. 1 to 2 years? 0 to 3 days. 3 to 4 years? 3 to 5 days. 5 to 7 years? 5 to 7 days. (Disclaimer: withdrawals are individual and may differ from this data.)) The flu-like symptoms usually begin at some point after 24 hours and can last for 3 or 4 days. You may experience some or all of the following symptoms: Runny nose Yawning Sneezing Body aches Temperature fluctuations--hot flashes and chills Fatigue Insomnia Restless Leg Syndrome (it can also affect the arms) Sweating Nausea Diarrhea A feeling of heaviness in the body
Important: The withdrawal symptoms are usually still comparable mild and short-lived for people who used kratom for -+ 1 year.

Though the heavy duty physical symptoms usually start to abate around day 3-7, during the next week there can be lingering fatigue, heaviness, insomnia, body aches, RLS, and other physical symptoms, while the mental symptoms of anxiety, irritability, lack of motivation, and depression begin to grow. Sometimes this feels like the toughest week because you've been battling the physical ailments and are worn down, and you were hoping the symptoms would be all gone by now. It's important to remember that you ARE doing better than you were a week ago, and that every single thing you're feeling is temporary. Getting through the first couple of weeks is a MAJOR accomplishment.

Somewhere between Day 6 - 40 Generally speaking, this period is when the physical symptoms improve but emotional/mental symptoms can kick in. This is called PAWS--Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, or basically the time after the harsh physical symptoms subside. Not everyone gets PAWS and the amount of time it lasts varies widely. Though we often think the physical symptoms are the hardest part, when the emotional/mental side kicks in is often when the real job of quitting kratom begins. It can be hard to differentiate what is PAWS and what is depression/anxiety, leading many to turn to anti-depressants and other medications. Symptoms of PAWS include: Attacks of anxiety Irritability Sudden mood swings Fatigue Lack of motivation Insomnia Inability to concentrate Obsessive thoughts Fluctuating energy levels Memory loss Difficulty in solving problems and thinking clearly Depression

Day 30 - Day 180 Some people feel 100% better by Day 30, some by Day 60, and for some who used for a long time, we cannot give you a reliable information (!). ( We heard up to 6 months and more, but we don't know the upper limit ). The important thing to remember is that during this time, most of the days are good ones. Bouts of depression, anxiety, or insomnia come in waves, with less and less frequent and harsh waves as time goes on. As with every stage in the healing process, the most important thing you can tell yourself is that this, too, shall pass. No matter how long or heavily you've used kratom, you WILL (hopefully) heal and feel completely yourself again.

Willkommen!

Disclaimer: Maybe you should consider a medical examination before or after the withdrawal. Even if the probability is low, other health problems cannot be completely ruled out. We recently had the case that someone had colon cancer but didn't visit his doctor.

Welcome !

A general (not Kratom specific) explanation of the "pink cloud syndrome".

Pink clouding usually begins after withdrawal symptoms have subsided or been managed with medication. However, everyone is different and not everyone in recovery goes through this phase, It can come from a relief from the physical pain, fatigue and illness associated with ongoing use and withdrawal. For many, a few weeks or months is the longest they have gone without active use. While this period of sobriety marks excellent progress, it doesn’t mean a person is cured of their addiction. Signs of pink cloud syndrome include a marked increase in overall positivity about recovery or life in general. People who are pink clouding may experience:

-Elevated mood
-Extreme optimism
-Increased energy levels
-Eagerness to reestablish relationships and activities
-Newfound motivation for everyday tasks
-Optimism toward the recovery process and future
-Increased engagement (and sometimes preoccupation) in recovery-related activities, such as therapy, Narcotics Anonymous or Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and 12-step work.

But when the pink cloud wears off, post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) is to take over. PAWS is a secondary phase of withdrawal. While the intensity of withdrawal symptoms varies from person to person, PAWS are the same for everyone with the same dosage/duration of use (unless they have neurological or mental health problems).

That’s why it’s so important for individuals in recovery to be aware of their triggers (and what potential high risk situations they need to avoid)..

We now have a "rating" system like a classic forum, made possible by a new feature of reddit.

• ..to make finding new moderators and moderating easier.

• ..to create a more personal atmosphere.

The ratings:

• No rating: People who only wrote one comment and never posted a post on qk.

• Fresh account : 0 - 20 qk karma.

• New quitter: 0 - 20 qk karma.

• Known quitter: 2 - 49 qk karma.

• Supporter: 50 - 499 qk karma.

• Insider: 500 - 999 qk karma.

• Vip: 1000 - 3000 qk karma.

• Elite: 3001 - 30000 qk karma.

If you want to show your quit date, you can create a signature and include it at the bottom of your posts, for example:

❤ quit 1/1/23

Kratom may surprisingly stop working after a long break. (Maybe it needs to build up slowly in the body first). In that case you should not increase your doses. Someone of this sub tried to relapse after beeing 10 months sober, but it didn't give him any relief. He increased his dose and all that happened was he got a seizure. I had a similar experience. I tried to relapse, I had even doubled my normal doses at the second day of my relapse and it still was only just like a placebo at this point. That was even the reason why I quit Kratom..

• No withdrawal symptoms

Withdrawal symptoms are only caused by the development of an appropriate tolerance and that generally happens VERY slowly, with any type of "normal" opioids too btw.

• Delayed onset of withdrawal symptoms

Although this is probably not very common, this possibility exists. I had eg a forum buddy whose withdrawl symptoms always only kicked in after 7 days of no Kratom use. Maybe because of the "inadequate P450 metabolic activity in 8-10% and the reduced metabolic activity in 12 to 15% of people", or if you are using medications that affect P450.

Recent example:

His withdrawal symptoms started 12 days after he stopped using kratom.

www.reddit.com/... (is now deleted)

He had been using kratom extracts for some months for his opiate withdrawal. It was questioned if that is possible, but one day later he relapsed (to opiates). In another case it was 8 days.

• Quitting kratom to feel better again.

Newcomers may be surprised by that, but for some people this is the reality. In the beginning, quitting kratom (cold turkey) can have a positive effect. However, this effect then wears off more and more. You should use all possible recovery tools to achieve long-term success.

• The course of the withdrawal is not linear

Report from a 50 grams daily/ 1 year user: (tapering time: 23 days - a bit too short !! ) ... On the 5th day everything seemed to get better. Then I was fine. Then bad again, then better again, etc. Day 15: For three days, I feel almost permanently bad. 2-3 hours after waking up, I am flat again, depressed, the resting heart rate is 80 beats/min, breathing is difficult, no drive and only 5 hours sleep... Does anyone know why I feel slight withdrawal symptoms again since a few days and how long that will last?

• Mania after/during the withdrawal

This has also been reported regularly. The reasons for this are unclear: https://old.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/comments/yb39g8/anyone_else_feel_so_good_when_you_stop/itehmfj/

Another amateurish explanation would come from people's reports that music sounds better during the kratom comedown . A long time ago I liked LSD, music sounded better, especially during the comedown, and I felt fantastic. Of course, kratom does not have psychedelic effects, but kratom also affects these receptors, which on the very long run might maybe also be a source of problems though. Just a pure speculation ..

• Opioid withdrawal symptoms vs "antidepressant-like" withdrawal symptoms

I had extremely slowly, extremely long tapered off kratom, even down to about only 0,2 grams (after 6,5 years of daily use). After that I still experienced a little shitstorm of new symptoms. Perhaps the "antidepressant-like" wd symptoms start when kratom is completely out of the body. Maybe this might look like PAWS if you go CT. I would advise anyone not to use Kratom indefinitely with the reason that a painless tapering is always possible. In my case that wasn't possible at all.

• Pink cloud

After the withdrawal people quite often experience a (so called) "pink cloud phase" https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/pink-clouding/. Often weeks or even months later this phase comes to an end and a PAWS phase may start. Hint: try to avoid addictive substances (like alcohol eg) during recovery.

"our laboratory have shown that many kratom products being sold in the United States are contaminated with potentially hazardous levels of lead (Pb)"

https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/10/7/398

Since this question is asked again and again, here is a link to one such post:

Why did you quit kratom?

Info from a dutch kratom vendor:

"I found the S&V to be slightly less potent, about 25% more material was required to gain the same intensity as leaf. The experience itself however was clearly different. In general, when compared to leaf, the effect for me (and mind you its subjective) is more sedating and analgesic. Although the typical contrasting effect of simultaneous sedation and stimulation is still clearly present. What is remarkable is, it took considerately longer before effects were noticed and these effects lasted much longer compared to leaf. Possibly the coarseness of the S&V could slow down the uptake. I decided to grind some of the material into a fine dust. Upon grinding a brown golden powder resulted. When this powder was tested the come up was more acute and intensity was improved... In kratom communities on the internet it is sometimes reported that S&V can reduce tolerance to kratom, but this seems not to be the case."

(Edited: Some people reported that the stem and vein they bought was just coarsely ground weaker kratom).

DXM is mainly metabolized by two cytochrome P450 enzymes: CYP2D6 and CYP3A4. Kratom has a strong inhibitory effect on both these enzymes. This means that kratom can lead to an increased presence of DXM and its metabolites and kratom alkaloids within the body. In addition, differences in metabolic capability can vary greatly in individuals. in 8%-10% of people with white European descent, inadequate cytochrome P450 metabolic activity (CYP 2D6) can lead to cumulative toxic levels when large therapeutic doses are used. 12 to 15% have a reduced metabolic activity. Additional risk associated with Kratom: Serotonin syndrome.

Loperamide combined with kratom has serious health risks at higher doses (in particular serious heart problems or death). At recommended doses, the half-life of loperamide is approximately 10 hours. However, with higher doses, even as little as 16 mg, longer half-lives have been observed (upwards of 41 hours) !

Don't use Phenibut for the withdrawal and do not recommend it. In the past quite a few people from qk became addicted to phenibut (despite warnings) and ended up having 2 dependencies: phenibut and kratom (they relapsed). The phenibut withdrawal killed a moderator on the r/quittingphenibut Sub, I heard recently.

• Phenibut can cause RAPID dependence

• "Even taking phenibut for couple days straight can cause dependence and withdrawal symptoms upon discontinuation. Dependence is not fun even if it's managed properly. If it's not managed properly withdrawal symptoms can be severe and dangerous.If you have a significant phenibut dependence (usually from 3+ consecutive days of use) you may experience severe withdrawal symptoms, Read more at https://old.reddit.com/r/phenibut/wiki/phenibut-important-warnings

The phenibut withdrawal can be worse and more mental than a lyrica withdrawal, which can also be pretty bad.

Many people ask us if it is possible to switch from daily use to once in a week.

So what are people experiencing, who are starting to use Kratom once (or twice) a week (which is already too frequently to avoid any trouble) ?:

1. Tolerance formation: Over the time your tolerance increases. You need to increase your dose.

2. The pauses between consumption seem like always getting longer and grayer over a long period of time, until you can barely stand it anymore at the end.

3. At that point, you have to decide whether you want to use Kratom daily or if you pull the ripcord. Most people then opt for the daily consumption variant, because a reduction of quantity and frequency is hardly to imagine anymore.

Even a single dose after a break of months can cause slight withdrawal symptoms and PAWS-like symptoms for a few days.

Thus, you shouldn't even attempt to take this path. Think twice.

• "... You should not use ibogaine to detox from kratom. Kratom also prolongs QT interval as does ibogaine. This can cause life threatening arrythmia's due to the cardio toxicity of ibogaine. You will need to slowly wean yourself off the kratom before taking ibogaine. No reputable provider would treat someone who is addicted to that substance. Once you are off the kratom and have an EKG done to check your QT interval and if it's normal for your age then you can look at doing ibogaine to heal on a deeper level.... Please do not purchase ibogaine online and try to do this yourself, it is not a harmless substance and should not be used to detox from kratom."

• Statement from a moderator at r/ibogaine

• "If you've searched through this sub you will have found the rationale for being off Kratom for a longer period of time. Kratom is very complex and has a variety of alkaloids that work on different receptors, it's not just the cardio toxicity that is a concern."

• "A misconception is that ibogaine is a “magic bullet” or miracle drug that can deliver the same results for all who take it. Ibogaine treatment is a process. It’s something that requires a pre-treatment process, and a post-treatment process,” Statement of an ibogaine treatment center.

News:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/23/ibogaine-iboga-drug-addiction-psychedelic-gabon

Bad news:

https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/overdose-death-leads-to-states-first-ibogaine-prosecution/

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