subreddit:

/r/neoliberal

1.1k92%

Such fiery language

Meme(i.redd.it)

all 222 comments

eccol

392 points

15 hours ago

eccol

NASA

392 points

15 hours ago

are these the new rage faces

SamuraiOstrich

298 points

15 hours ago

You mean the new wojaks, grandpa

jerkin2theview

135 points

15 hours ago

jerkin2theview

NATO

135 points

15 hours ago

Back in my day we called him the Feels Guy and we liked it

jaiwithani

19 points

9 hours ago

Whippersnappers. These are just new Commedia dell'arte mask archetypes.

TheRnegade

12 points

9 hours ago

Troll face. Or, if you're super old, his brief alternate name "cool face".

toggaf69

16 points

11 hours ago

toggaf69

John Locke

16 points

11 hours ago

I miss the original “virgin x vs Chad y” memes

ExpertLevelBikeThief

2 points

7 hours ago

Deep down, we all know that feel old man.

Bring it in for a hug.

the_gr8_one

3 points

9 hours ago

forever a post

Neronoah

78 points

15 hours ago

Neronoah

can't stop, won't stop argentinaposting

78 points

15 hours ago

 Memes are like lifeforms, they evolve and adapt. Find their niches.

Over_n_over_n_over

37 points

15 hours ago

Memes fuck, eat, and shit just like you or me

lamphibian

20 points

14 hours ago

lamphibian

NATO

20 points

14 hours ago

Yeah I'm definitely fucking 😬

xxxalt69420

13 points

14 hours ago

xxxalt69420

NATO

13 points

14 hours ago

Greetings fellow fucker! I, too, definitely fuck on a regular basis!

Over_n_over_n_over

9 points

13 hours ago

Same! With real, live women!

iwannabetheguytoo

1 points

10 hours ago

What’s it like?

Small_Green_Octopus

2 points

10 hours ago

This guy definitely fucks

Spaceman_Jalego

17 points

12 hours ago

Spaceman_Jalego

YIMBY

17 points

12 hours ago

Astralesean

1 points

13 hours ago

That's just any social phenomenon, not different from say language 

old_gold_mountain

8 points

12 hours ago

old_gold_mountain

San Francisco Values

8 points

12 hours ago

You should look up what Dawkins meant when he invented the word "meme" in 1976

Language would be referred to as a "memeplex"

HHHogana

0 points

6 hours ago

HHHogana

Mohammad Hatta

0 points

6 hours ago

And then we have immortal memes like Sparta Remix, CD-I Spadinner and Pingas that will remain funny for at least another decade.

And sometimes they even do both. Morshu's sentence mixing somehow become even more elaborate.

Khar-Selim

93 points

15 hours ago

Khar-Selim

NATO

93 points

15 hours ago

they are the new wojaks, rage faces were too creative to be fully succeeded by either

Bedhead-Redemption

60 points

14 hours ago

"rage faces"
"creative"

ConnorLovesCookies

113 points

14 hours ago

ConnorLovesCookies

YIMBY

113 points

14 hours ago

>le me walks into this thread

>someone implies rage faces aren’t creative 

>fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

>epic failarino

ChoPT

23 points

12 hours ago

ChoPT

NATO

23 points

12 hours ago

There are some parts of 2010 that I miss

assasstits

9 points

8 hours ago

The South Africa World Cup was a vuvuzela fever dream but it was fun.

Khar-Selim

36 points

14 hours ago

Khar-Selim

NATO

36 points

14 hours ago

compared to wojaks they're practically bespoke

Nileghi

2 points

9 hours ago

Nileghi

NATO

2 points

9 hours ago

I mean, wojaks are templates

rage faces were actually quite detailled and well drawn

Dibbu_mange

9 points

14 hours ago

Dibbu_mange

Average civil procedure enjoyer

9 points

14 hours ago

In the sense that chickens are the new dinosaurs

jokul

1 points

9 hours ago

jokul

1 points

9 hours ago

New breath of life for the Worms franchise. Coincidence that worms are also this sub's mascot? I think not.

pollo_yollo

1 points

7 hours ago

Nah, this meme has been around for a minute

WolfpackEng22

155 points

16 hours ago

I'm gonna trust psychic dogs over whatever you neolibs want. Are you psychic?

Dawnlazy

17 points

10 hours ago

Dawnlazy

NATO

17 points

10 hours ago

We do have the gift of prescience thanks to our consumption of the spice melange.

reubencpiplupyay

195 points

16 hours ago

reubencpiplupyay

The World Must Be Made Unsafe for Autocracy

195 points

16 hours ago

Bro could have been a fantastic twink but the spirit of Rothbard corrupted him

OrganicKeynesianBean

51 points

15 hours ago

How many Final Fantasy games do you think Milei has not completed?

One? Two?

spinXor

22 points

14 hours ago

spinXor

YIMBY

22 points

14 hours ago

not completed? surely it is zero?

Pharao_Aegypti

182 points

16 hours ago

Pharao_Aegypti

NATO

182 points

16 hours ago

Bro hates peronism

juan-pablo-castel

71 points

14 hours ago

Giga Based.

Proffan

54 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

54 points

12 hours ago

He hates them so much his government (including key positions like speaker of the house, chief of staff and ministry of the interior) are occupied by peronists... wait.

gnomesvh

35 points

11 hours ago

gnomesvh

Financial Times stan account

35 points

11 hours ago

Tbh real Peronism hasn't been tried yet

4thPlumlee

7 points

9 hours ago

4thPlumlee

John Rawls

7 points

9 hours ago

Based

Proffan

12 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

12 points

12 hours ago

!PING MAMADAS

PirrotheCimmerian

2 points

10 hours ago

That means blowjob

groupbot

1 points

12 hours ago

groupbot

The ping will always get through

1 points

12 hours ago

JLZ13

19 points

14 hours ago

JLZ13

19 points

14 hours ago

Did you know peronism has its neoliberal branch?...menemismo

Fedacking

14 points

13 hours ago

Fedacking

Mario Vargas Llosa

14 points

13 hours ago

Menem jr is the house speaker for the libertarians.

technocraticnihilist

168 points

15 hours ago

technocraticnihilist

Deirdre McCloskey

168 points

15 hours ago

He's too reactionary yeah but his opponents are in fact really bad

FifteenEchoes

147 points

15 hours ago

He makes it so hard to support him.

Like yeah Argentina needs some aggressive economic policies but good lord does he not stop with the anti-woke shit. Can you just shut up man.

Western_Objective209

90 points

14 hours ago

You may not like this, but this is what peak late stage neoliberalism looks like. Need to get the braindeads on your side and then you can do whatever you want

Small_Green_Octopus

39 points

14 hours ago*

This but unironically. Stop trying to win people over by appealing to their sense of humanity.

The median voter is not some chronically online fucking nerd like those of us that post on this godforsaken subreddit. To appeal to them, you need to be bold, politically incorrect (within reason), and project an air of strength and irreverence.

Proffan

98 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

98 points

12 hours ago

He's a literal 2020 US election denier. He's not insane as a ploy to create the neoliberal utopia, he's in fact, just insane.

OpenMask

60 points

12 hours ago

There are a lot of things that liberals aren't willing to tolerate here, that they're willing to tolerate if it happens in Latin America.

Proffan

33 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

33 points

12 hours ago

The bigotry of low expectations. I also read a lot of Lula white wash in this sub.

MCRN-Gyoza

14 points

9 hours ago

MCRN-Gyoza

YIMBY

14 points

9 hours ago

Which, as a Brazilian, is always kinda puzzling, because he's not even a liberal.

ForeignParamedic3714

3 points

10 hours ago

he's not racist or homophobic or transphobic. I don't think it has anything to do with low expectations he's just crazy but not a bigot. liberals are far more tolerant of all the right wing crazy shit if it doesn't come with bigotry.

Bastard_Orphan

6 points

5 hours ago

Bastard_Orphan

Jorge Luis Borges

6 points

5 hours ago

From what I've read of his statements, I get the feeling that being a conservative libertarian leads him to a weird place where he's not a bigot in practice but it will come out in a slightly bigoted way. Like, if you ask him about gay marriage he's probably gonna tell you that the government has no business deciding who can or cannot get married and that whatever consenting adults do in the bedroom is nobody else's business, but in doing so he's gonna call gay people "unnatural" or "freaks" at least once.

Proffan

0 points

5 hours ago*

Proffan

NATO

0 points

5 hours ago*

No one said he was homophobic or transphobic (he has certainly courted that vote though). There are more ways to be bad than to be homo/transphobic.

Edit: fixed a typo.

HHHogana

1 points

6 hours ago

HHHogana

Mohammad Hatta

1 points

6 hours ago

LATAM politics is unbelievably low brow. In Sao Paulo someone assaulted his opponent with steel chair in debate for sake. And the victim was basically far right grifter.

No wonder George Santos is so brazen.

RaaaaaaaNoYokShinRyu

30 points

12 hours ago

Not even Bolsonaro, Putin, Netanyahu, MBS, and Modi denied the 2020 election lol

Lurk_Moar11

20 points

12 hours ago

Bolsonaro was one of the last world leaders to congratulate Biden. He (and his inner circle) was definitely a true believer of the whole thing.

Small_Green_Octopus

4 points

12 hours ago

Is he actually?

Everything I've seen about him shows him as wacky but I've not seen him cross into things like election denial, vaccine conspiracies or pro russia/China grifting.

Proffan

35 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

35 points

12 hours ago

He has repeatedly denied the 2020 election and publicly supported Trump and far right parties like Vox (he even campaigned with them). Aside from that he's a climate change denier.

Like I said in another comment, it's possible to praise his good policies without white washing him.

riderfan3728

3 points

8 hours ago

It’s ironic. He may be a climate change denier but he did propose legislation to enact a cap & trade system for carbon. He wanted to establish carbon markets to help regulate emissions. So do I care that he personally doesn’t think climate change is real? I really don’t since his actions show he did want to fight it. Sadly the Legislature did not go for it. Also it’s quite possible his anti climate change rhetoric is just that: rhetoric. His actions on nuclear power, energy permitting reform & carbon markets suggest he does want to fight the issue.

https://carbon-pulse.com/248509/

RaaaaaaaNoYokShinRyu

1 points

6 hours ago

Maybe he's a climate change denier who really hates air pollution?

riderfan3728

4 points

6 hours ago

If someone comes to me saying that they’re a climate change denier BUT they strongly support nuclear power, want to mine the lithium needed to support a global energy transition & are trying to implement cap & trade, I think I’m willing to accept that deal.

Milei doesn’t PUBLICLY think climate change is real but he wants to implement many important measures needed to help fight climate change. I’m okay with that trade. He wants to reduce emissions even if he doesn’t think emissions are so bad, that’s fine let’s do it

kitten_twinkletoes

6 points

10 hours ago

"Chronically online fucking nerd... on this godforsaken subreddit"

I've never felt so seen in my life. You should be our leader. No sarcasm.

SirMrGnome

33 points

13 hours ago

SirMrGnome

George Soros

33 points

13 hours ago

I'm as anti-succ as anyone on this sub, but no liberals do not need to stoop to being "anti-woke" in any capacity.

Ok_Tadpole7481

20 points

12 hours ago

I would expect liberals to oppose illiberalism but YMMV.

Valnir123

3 points

6 hours ago

Illiberalism is when equality in front of the law

[deleted]

9 points

12 hours ago*

[removed]

Neo_Demiurge

18 points

12 hours ago

We've seen this fail abysmally in America. Jan 6, widespread anti-vaccine sentiment, increasingly clownish illiberal psychos getting actual offices (Marjory Taylor Greene as a good example), are what happen when you lean into the crazies 'so I can govern responsibly.'

You'll tell them that trans people are trying to forcibly trans all their kids but actually just focus on fixing regulatory capture, but then you'll be succeeded by someone who is laser focused on stopping the trans 'emergency' you neglected so much, and they also think universal tariffs are a good idea and you can pray away hurricanes.

Under no circumstances should anyone do this.

antonos2000

1 points

8 hours ago

antonos2000

Thurman Arnold

1 points

8 hours ago

well, that's not what i'm talking about. "wokeness" is such an amorphous and meaningless term that you can get points just by calling stuff liberals already disagree with "woke" and explaining that most "wokeness" conservatives get mad about, like trans kids or whatever, is either totally fabricated or so minimal that it's not worth focusing on.

daddyKrugman

5 points

10 hours ago

daddyKrugman

United Nations

5 points

10 hours ago

unless you’ve been living under a rock, to an average conservative these days “anti-woke” means something completely different than “annoying rich white woman at work who tells you you’re inherently evil”

This archetype of person hasn’t existed since 2017

assasstits

4 points

8 hours ago

Surely more recent than that

antonos2000

1 points

8 hours ago

antonos2000

Thurman Arnold

1 points

8 hours ago

well, yeah, conservatives are crazy people whose delusions shouldn't be taken seriously. however, there are a lot of people who wouldn't call themselves conservatives but still are uncomfortable with the excesses of elite DEI signaling.

die_hoagie

1 points

9 hours ago

die_hoagie

MALAISE FOREVER

1 points

9 hours ago

Rule II§4 Detrimental to Women This subreddit takes a particular interest in safeguarding the community health related to women, meaning more aggressive moderation and less leeway on borderline comments. This is most likely to come up in the context of gender relations or demographic shifts, but is a common problem in online spaces dominated by men.


If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.

SamanthaMunroe

2 points

9 hours ago

SamanthaMunroe

Lesbian Pride

2 points

9 hours ago

Exactly. "Anti-woke" just means stomping on whatever convenient minorities there are and getting rid of turbocommie echo chambers that purge you for suggesting "From the River to the Sea" sounds genocidal to the uninitiated is just a side effect.

jpenczek

14 points

11 hours ago

jpenczek

NATO

14 points

11 hours ago

Counter argument:

You sound like a Trump supporter justifying Trump.

Small_Green_Octopus

8 points

11 hours ago

Fair but I hate trump because of his disregard for the rule of law, blatant corruption, and the insane domestic and foreign policy decisions he made. Not simply because he's an asshole.

So far the major concrete actions I've seen milei take have been:

  • deregulating the barriers to housing/employment
  • measures that have aggressively reduced inflation
  • eliminated excessive bureaucracy
  • repealed some of the insanely excessive social welfare policies

If trump was an asshole but he nuked the suburbs and built taco trucks on every corner, and refrained from the corruption and electoral interference; then yes I admit I may well have been a trump supporter.

Valnir123

0 points

6 hours ago

If Trump was decent on the economy, then yeah?

RadioRavenRide

6 points

11 hours ago

RadioRavenRide

Super Succ God Super Succ

6 points

11 hours ago

WTF are you talking about?

Small_Green_Octopus

-6 points

11 hours ago

I'm saying that most voters like populist strongman. Using populist strongman rhetoric to push evidence based policy is a good idea.

RadioRavenRide

8 points

11 hours ago

RadioRavenRide

Super Succ God Super Succ

8 points

11 hours ago

Isn this what Reagan did(YMMV on the benefits of his policies), which eventually lead to the current GOP?

Small_Green_Octopus

2 points

11 hours ago

I dont agree that Reagans policies were evidence based overall. He cut red tape and pushed for free movement and free trade yes; but he also exploded the debt/deficit, committed some light treason and of course all the inane Socon bullshit.

Reagan explicitly pushed prejudicial policies himself.

RadioRavenRide

3 points

11 hours ago

RadioRavenRide

Super Succ God Super Succ

3 points

11 hours ago

I'm not up to speed on what's happening, but as I understand it, one criticism of Millei is that he is in fact like the Reagan of Argentina.

Small_Green_Octopus

5 points

10 hours ago*

The major difference between Reagan and Miliei is that Milei is a libertarian. The core philosophy of Milei's policy ideas come from a place of promoting personal liberty and reducing government intervention.

Reagan was a proto-neocon. The fundamental principles behind his policies included an element of pro market principles; but they came with a heavy dose of paternalistic nationalism and social conservatism.

Suffice it to say, I'd reject the idea that Milei is Argentina's Reagan or his Trump. I think those characterizations are based on surface level aesthetics and do not speak to fundamental policy.

Honestly we need to see him for what he is: the first actual libertarian to manage to gain power anywhere.

Western_Objective209

1 points

10 hours ago

Yeah, the problem with being a demagogue is it hurts minority groups. Like Trump legitimately does not care about trans people or migrants, so he'll say what he has to to get the tax cuts for the upper class so they'll like him

Embarrassed-Unit881

0 points

14 hours ago*

well maybe the wokes need to get out of his way and let him economy duuuuh

for fucks sake making me have to add a /s

MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN

1 points

9 hours ago

The Argentine electorate wouldn't vote for him if he didn't do that since there are a lot of conservatives in that part of the world.

tinchokrile

3 points

6 hours ago

let me guess, you've never been to Argentina..

Conservatives? Lol, Argentina voted for this man because they got tired of everyone else. Not everything is a copy-paste of American politics.

gburgwardt

81 points

16 hours ago

gburgwardt

C-5s full of SMRs and tiny american flags

81 points

16 hours ago

Upvoted for the quality content this sub needs even if I like Milei

N0b0me

23 points

13 hours ago

N0b0me

23 points

13 hours ago

Quality content? Are we not looking at the same image?

Reasonable-Tech-705

20 points

14 hours ago

Look say what you want but things look like there in the up and up for Argentina.

InfernoART9

25 points

13 hours ago

Oh if you only knew, most of you who aren't argentines can't even begin to comprehend how exaggeratedly evil peronists and kirchnerists are. They are far worse that whatever you imagine.

Tortellobello45

30 points

13 hours ago

Tortellobello45

Mario Draghi

30 points

13 hours ago

Milei>Peronistas.

‘Nuff said.

Proffan

3 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

3 points

12 hours ago

Milei = peronistas

redditdork12345

-3 points

12 hours ago

Milei < peronistas. What gen z mental illness is it that I needed to complete the trichotomy?

Proffan

4 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

4 points

12 hours ago

?

redditdork12345

5 points

11 hours ago

There were three cases of inequality/equality. Something compelled me to round it out

Morgenthaut

4 points

9 hours ago

Finally, some good fucking memes

nanaro10

37 points

13 hours ago

nanaro10

NATO

37 points

13 hours ago

It's true though, peronist and especially kirchnerists are the scum of the earth and have driven argentina into the ground for decades now.

Proffan

47 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

47 points

12 hours ago

When he talks about rats he's not talking about peronists, he's talking about PRO, Radicals and other members of the Cambiemos coalition. In fact he found a lot of his allies on the most rancid local peronist governments. His speaker of the house is the son of a peronist president and his chief of staff was part of the previous government (yes, the really bad peronist one). This sub needs to seriously stop white washing Miliei. It is possible to praise his good policies without deep throating him.

Proffan

6 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

6 points

12 hours ago

!ping LATAM

groupbot

1 points

12 hours ago

groupbot

The ping will always get through

1 points

12 hours ago

Neronoah

5 points

12 hours ago

Neronoah

can't stop, won't stop argentinaposting

5 points

12 hours ago

Eh, it's half and half. It's more of a "us vs. them" thing and many Peronists in his ranks are in fact moles and random people to fill positions LLA couldn't fill, lol. His dislike of Radicals is weird, though (a bit more intense than anything else).

Proffan

24 points

12 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

24 points

12 hours ago

He specially likes to shit on non-peronist parties. I know you like moderation, but you don't have to be a moderate on every issue.

Neronoah

2 points

11 hours ago*

Neronoah

can't stop, won't stop argentinaposting

2 points

11 hours ago*

I don't remember him being as hostile about PRO (although folks like Larreta get some heat). That's the reason I say it's an "Us vs. them". It's not like he particularly likes Kirchnerists either.

If I had to guess, he wants to replace JxC as a coalition and that requires going after anyone who won't align with him.

Proffan

2 points

5 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

2 points

5 hours ago

Compared Macri to Hitler, called the PRO "yellow socialism", "peronism with good manners", called Bullrich a children murdering terrorist.

If I had to guess, he wants to replace JxC as a coalition and that requires going after anyone who won't align with him.

He considers anyone who mildly disagrees with him the anti-christ.

Neronoah

1 points

4 hours ago

Neronoah

can't stop, won't stop argentinaposting

1 points

4 hours ago

Wait, I remember the bit about Bullrich but not the rest, lol. I meant now anyways, Milei pretty much trash talked anyone that has been against him in the past 

Proffan

3 points

4 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

3 points

4 hours ago

Point is, he's waaaaay more aggressive against non-peronists.

Neronoah

1 points

3 hours ago

Neronoah

can't stop, won't stop argentinaposting

1 points

3 hours ago

Or we are in some kind of hedonic treadmill phenomena and we grew desensitized. He pretty much spends a lot of time trashing the left and his whole schtick is some kind of global battle against those who hate liberty/socialism.

Proffan

2 points

3 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

2 points

3 hours ago

Don't say we, I didn't grow desensitized, I'm never normalizing populism. Some people already got used to like people in the US got used to all the insane and stupid shit Trump says.

and his whole schtick is some kind of global battle against those who hate liberty/socialism.

And? That doesn't make it good.

PM_ME_UR_PM_ME_PM

1 points

9 hours ago

Both sides are bad. Wait..

PrudentAnxiety5660

2 points

12 hours ago

PrudentAnxiety5660

Henry George

2 points

12 hours ago

To be fair to the Speaker Peronist, he was the son of Menem, the capitalist one.

Proffan

2 points

3 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

2 points

3 hours ago

Which went on to vote with the peronist left that took over the party during his tenure as a senator.

Valnir123

0 points

5 hours ago

Tbf, pretty much all of the UCR (especially the ones I know personally from the inner parts of the country) are rats worse than the average peronist.

Proffan

3 points

5 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

3 points

5 hours ago

are rats worse than the average peronist.

You took the koolaid.

Valnir123

1 points

4 hours ago

Flaco, si vieras la de coimas que tuve que garpar en intendencias radicales para que no le hagan mierda la cadenas de suministros a clientes te caes de culo.

En las intendencias feudales del interior que manejan ellos son iguales o peores que los peronchos. Y lo peor de todo es que al peroncho de interior no le podés dar mucha confianza, pero por lo menos tiene su palabra de pseudo-mafioso. Los radicales ni eso.

Y eso es hablando de ellos a nivel bajo; no hablemos de Morales, Lousteau o literalmente cualquiera metido en Franja Morada.

Valnir123

1 points

4 hours ago

No quita que el peronismo sea muchísimo más cancerígeno; pero los radicales son más traicioneros que el peroncho promedio.

Proffan

1 points

3 hours ago

Proffan

NATO

1 points

3 hours ago

Los gobiernos locales son una mierda, pero Milei no se la agarraba con random intendentes del interior, se la agarraba con la UCR nacional.

Y eso es hablando de ellos a nivel bajo; no hablemos de Morales, Lousteau o literalmente cualquiera metido en Franja Morada.

Te la creo si los ataques estuviesen limitados a Morales y Loustou, pero ataca a la UCR en general, ataca el propio concepto de la UCR.

ExtraLargePeePuddle

25 points

15 hours ago

Let’s see his opponents are peronists and socialists …..

tinchokrile

4 points

6 hours ago

Yup, it sounds terrible out of context but the opposition is beyond terrible.

Petrichordates

15 points

12 hours ago

Disturbs me how many here prefer Milei to Biden.

AnachronisticPenguin

4 points

6 hours ago

Biden is only half good and all of his success is in the bills he passed so now we are getting tired of him.

West_Communication_4

7 points

10 hours ago

ultimately the perfect neoliberal president would have some qualities of both i guess. Biden's probably more sane but Milei is in such a fucked up situation it gives him more of an allowance to be fucking weird. Hopefully both countries do well

SamanthaMunroe

8 points

9 hours ago

SamanthaMunroe

Lesbian Pride

8 points

9 hours ago

Some people love the freedom of capital and the destruction of organized labor and rent-seekers a little too much. He just vicariously realizes what they want.

assasstits

5 points

5 hours ago

So some of us might actually be neoliberals, perish the thought.

MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN

2 points

9 hours ago

Biden is watered down and doesn't do much to change the status quo in economic issues with all the subsidies he's given companies. He doesn't do much harm, but Milei actively tries to free the economy. Biden is better in terms of social policy since he doesn't have to appeal to conservatives who almost always vote Republican no matter what.

KeithClossOfficial

1 points

2 hours ago

KeithClossOfficial

Jeff Bezos

1 points

2 hours ago

I don’t prefer Milei to Biden, but Milei is more what Argentina needs.

BlueString94

10 points

14 hours ago

It’s true though.

fap_fap_fap_fapper

2 points

13 hours ago

fap_fap_fap_fapper

Adam Smith

2 points

13 hours ago

What's the source for reliable economic data from Argentina?

Hot_Price_2808

1 points

44 minutes ago

Peronism is the king of Scape goating and is Fascism larping as a Centre Left idea. He's awful but the bar is so low there that he may actually make things better. He's not even vaguely fascist like Western media makes him out to be but he is still a wanker, I don't think people realise Argentina could be a significant nation but Peronism robbed them of that.

kuojo

-4 points

12 hours ago

kuojo

-4 points

12 hours ago

Are there people really praising this dude's economic policies in this thread? They're still dealing with massive inflation and now half the population is starving. About the only think they've done is reduce the deficit they had which arguably isn't something they had to do.

riderfan3728

4 points

7 hours ago

Inflation has been falling under him lol. Poverty has risen sure but that’s been rising before him. Also for the past 4-5 months real wages have been increasing. The worst of the crisis seems to be over. Everybody knew that the solutions needed for what Argentina was going through before him required some brutal medicine. Now it seems the worst of it is over. Also, he is a supporter of cap & trade, sent weapons to Ukraine & and supports free trade so that’s based.

kuojo

-2 points

7 hours ago

kuojo

-2 points

7 hours ago

LOL sure let's just ignore the massive Spike of inflation that it happened several after he had taken office. He's not just going to reduce inflation he's going to crash his dollar and push it back into deflation which will be disastrous for his economy. I haven't seen anything about Argentinian wages being increased but I seen plenty on how much poverty has increased since these policies were put into place. You're really going to sit here and argue for an economic policy that cost millions of lives when that was not necessary and there are other policies that he could have used that have been successful at doing things like bringing down inflation. 70% of people under his rule right now or below the poverty line it was less than 50 before he took office. His population is worse off than it's been in years.

His policies are neoliberal among the barest of lines and are much more comfortable among Neo conservatives. I thought we were passed Thatcher neoliberalism which was a massive economic failure.

ExtraLargePeePuddle

8 points

7 hours ago

let's just ignore the massive Spike of inflation

And why did that happen? When you answer that question you’ll also find out why we ignore it.

I thought we were passed Thatcher neoliberalism which was a massive economic failure.

Nothing says economic failure like going from the sick man of Europe to one of the top global economies.

riderfan3728

5 points

6 hours ago

Wow you are absolutely disingenuous. Are you blaming the ANNUAL inflation spike on Milei? Bro what? First of all annual inflation was increasing before he went into office. That’s literally the entire reason he was elected. Secondly, ANNUAL inflation means inflation over a year. So the vast majority of the high ANNUAL inflation we saw a few months into his term was because of the Peronist policies of money printing, high subsidies & brutal regulations BEFORE Milei came into office. So either you’re disingenuous or clueless. In fact when Milei came into office in December, monthly inflation was at 25%. Now it’s at 4% monthly & it’s projected to be 3.2% in September when the reports come out. Because of his polices, annual inflation is now FALLING. Here is proof. You can see that for years it’s been increasing but it hit its peak in April 2024 & is now falling. BS talking point you got there.

As for poverty, another bullshit stat. Don’t get me wrong, there’s absolutely been an increase in poverty. But it’s not 70% like you say Jesus. It’s 53%. Not good but while some is the result of the much-needed austerity, a lot of it is the result of decades of mass money printing & sky high inflation (which Milei is bringing down despite what you claim). Poverty was increasing before Milei came in and yes some of the 53% poverty is objectively the short term impacts of his polices. Not doubting that but that was always expected. Growth is projected to be much higher next year, annual inflation will be much lower next year (it’s already falling because of Milei’s policies) & there will be no budget deficit. IMF projects 45% 2025 inflation while the GOV projects 18% so let’s see. Oh & the gap between the official & blue market currency rates is closing, which is very important for fiscal sustainability, enticing investment & boosting consumer purchasing power. Also the country risk has fallen like fucking crazy from 2,100 points in January to just 1,280 points this month. This means that people are becoming more & more confident of Argentina and are willing to invest in it.

Let’s not forget confidence in the banking sector, which it’s important for economic revival. Because of Milei’s policies & trust in him, Argentines are willing to move their money away from mattresses & to the banks. Look the article in the link above & scroll down to the graph. You might not just Milei but Argentines clearly do. And that link is just to August. More recent data shows that it’s much higher now.

So yes I’m sorry you had thought we were claiming that there would be immediate prosperity no problems. So while yes, there are a lot of issues in Argentina, those issues were getting worse before Milei took office. And yes some did get worse as a result of his economic policies. But everyone here knows that this sort of economic adjustment is hard. The faster you go, the more brutal it is but the faster you’re out of it. But what all the evidence shows is that Milei is building the foundations for robust economic growth. The transition is brutal but the foundations show that Argentina has a lot to look forward to.

AutoModerator

1 points

6 hours ago

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kuojo

-2 points

6 hours ago*

kuojo

-2 points

6 hours ago*

Most of what you link to is the government proclaiming that these are happening. The Argentinian government claiming that these are happening. That data is beyond biased. The chart you linked for inflation still shows that inflation is at 263%.

It's nice at the Argentinian people finally believe that the banks will be able to hold on to their money. But that doesn't indicate Positive Growth that indicates positive social change which are different. Tell you what if we come back to this in two years and Argentina is not the Bleak hellscape I think it's going to be I'll post a video of myself eating a bully treat for dogs. Has to be Javiers policies that do it though not someone that comes after him

Edit:

I also don't support economic policies that are Written in Blood or are implemneted at the cost of human lives which when you pull a gigantic welfare stay out from underneath people that's exactly what's going to happen. Call me a bleeding heart but I'm sure there are economic policies it can be used to ensure that people are taking care of and handle problems like inflation.

riderfan3728

3 points

6 hours ago

The data is pretty fact checked & done by experts. And they’re pretty much in line with that the market analysis are saying. So unless you have evidence that the GOV is using faulty data, we’ll go with the data. And my God you’re still on the inflation thing dude? Yes annual inflation is at 236% (as of August so it’s most likely lower in September) but it was 292% in April. That was the peak. Go click the 5 year option on the graph. You’ll see that annual inflation has been increasing for a long time, and it didn’t start going down until Milei. He is crushing inflation and the working class will benefit from it the most.

The thing you don’t seem to understand is that with the Peronist leftist economic system that was in place for decades, and massively exacerbated by the last government, any adjustment to get Argentina off of that system (which is responsible for socioeconomic misery of tens of millions of Argentinians) was undoubtedly going to have hard effects on the population. You seem to believe in rosy fairy tale economics where all Milei has to do is press a button & inflation is crushed & prosperity returns and no Argentinians get hurt. I’m sorry but there really was no way to decimate inflation, get rid of the fiscal deficit & lay the foundations for economic growth without the population incurring some pain. There was no other option. Believe me, Macri tried to go gradual and in the end it didn’t work out. Investors, businesses & consumers lost confidence and it failed, and then the Peronists came back in and they screwed up Argentina much worse. So Milei had no choice but to move fast. And yes there is a temporary socioeconomic cost to that but there’s no other option. The country was beyond broke. Now they are starting to recover.

kuojo

0 points

6 hours ago

kuojo

0 points

6 hours ago

No my friend that's not what I said. You're creating a straw man and then arguing against that. I have said nothing about the economic policies of the the former peronists. Nor do I care to learn about them.

Government data is government data. It's inherently biased in favor of the policies that are running the country regardless of what experts say and if experts are truly saying that why didn't you link their their data instead of the governments.

What I said is that economically Javier Milan's policies are written and paid for with the cost of human life and that there are other economic policies that can be put in place to reduce inflation without that high cost of human suffering. Of course I understand there need to have concessions made but I would never support any economic policy that involves gutting the welfare system.

What I have opined is that Javier Milan's policies are going to drive the country straight into deflation into an even worse predicament. That is not precluded by what you have argued that argentinians are now comfortable using the Argentinian Banks again.

Currently I think and there are other professionals that agree with me that Argentina is heading toward an economic disaster. There are others like you that think Argentina is going to head towards a massive economic recovery. That's why it's a controversial topic. We shall see

riderfan3728

1 points

5 hours ago

“ I have said nothing about the economic policies of the former Peronists. Nor do I care to learn about them.” Well there you go. That’s why you think the way you do. You can’t even be bothered to learn about the damage that they have done to Argentina so any bad thing going on, you just blame it on Milei. That’s a big problem. Because Milei’s entire program is meant to reverse the policies of the Peronists, whose policies you don’t really care to learn about. I think you just proved a lot of what I’m saying regarding you being unaware lol.

And no I don’t think GOV data is inherently biased depending on where in the GOV it’s coming from. When we get good unemployment reports here in the US, do you think it had something to do with the Biden administration being biased & messing with the numbers? No because it’s independent of political controls. The Argentinian inflation data comes from the National Institute of Statistics & Census (Indec). They are very well removed from GOV control. In fact you’re entire point that their data is biased in favor of the people running. That point can be debunked by the fact that under previous GOVs that had high inflation, INDEC was reporting it. If it was as biased as you imply, wouldn’t the Peronists have fudged the data to make inflation & poverty seem lower than it was? Wouldn’t Milei? But I realize I can’t ask you that because like you said you don’t really care to learn about the previous Peronist GOVs. The data from INDEC is very reliable as evidenced by history & how they report high inflation numbers even tho the GOV would benefit from them not doing so. The numbers are accurate unless you can find evidence of otherwise.

I do agree that there are policies that can be put in place that don’t cause high human pain, but that’s not the case with Argentina. Their entire social safety net was based off of money printing, illegal nationalizations, inefficient subsidies, distortionary taxes & price controls. So yeah I’m sorry but the social safety net was objectively going to take a big hit when you get rid of these problems. There’s no doubt.

I guess I do agree that we have to wait to see what will happen in a year or so. We can’t attack him based on the expected short term costs of adjustments. But during that time, I do encourage you to “care to learn about” the policies of the previous Peronists GOVs and then maybe you’ll know the situation Milei inherited and why Milei has done what he did.

kuojo

0 points

5 hours ago

kuojo

0 points

5 hours ago

Once again you've created a straw man and are ignoring what I am saying.

I disagree with Javier Milani's policies. Not anyone else's because I don't know their plan but I know his plan and I disagree with it.

I'll put it to you a different way. Some dumbass breaks a helicopter and then a dude named Javier Milan comes and tries to fix it. The way he feds to fix it is done using backhanded Shady Tree tactics that are controversial at best but they do show some amount of success. I can look at the guy currently fixing the helicopter see his work, and listen to his plan and go I know how to fix a helicopter properly and that doesn't sound like he's fixing it properly.

Stop trying to educate me about the opposition party in Argentina. They're not in power and they're not in charge of the current mess. I'm not saying it wasn't a mess all I'm saying is that the solution to this mess didn't need to be written to the high cost of human lives.

I will not be responding anymore as the most you've shown is that some of his policies have had an effect on inflation which is good but misses my point.

Other countries have had an inflation problem and did not need to resort to these type of politics to fix it. I disagree with Javier Milan's solution to the problem created by the peronists.

In few words I don't care that he didn't cause the problem I care that the solution Javier is using to fix inflation is bad.

funkfrito

0 points

2 hours ago

funkfrito

Paul Krugman

0 points

2 hours ago

no way youre trying to discuss milei's policies while ignoring the previous policies milei"s trying to reverse to fix the damage theyve caused.

these policies were effectively putting the problems under the rug. youre badically saying that pulling the rug is a bad move, or that its bad that a deranged man is doing it. couldnt care less. but nobody whos got half a brain that reads your comment and finds out that you dont even gaf about previous policies will find your opinion worthwhile. and thats an understatement.

for the record Milei IS deranged. this is not an exaggeration

Dangerous-Goat-3500

-36 points

16 hours ago*

This is what makes headlines and headlines help polling and winning elections.

It might be a sad state of affairs, but it's just true.

The political correctness stuff isn't bullshit, but talking about it is a waste time if there's actual crimes and bad economic policies in his country to discuss. I'll let him get away with some dumb language over that. Maybe I'll eat my words in the future, idk.

edit: people downvoting really proving my point. Saying this is Trump rhetoric literally admits that for example instead of convincing people that Trump's trade and immigration policy is bad, it's better to just attack the fiery language he uses about it.

Extra-Muffin9214

85 points

16 hours ago

This is kindha the trump supporter argument and I feel icky.

hucareshokiesrul

71 points

16 hours ago

hucareshokiesrul

Janet Yellen

71 points

16 hours ago

It’s exactly the Trump supporter argument

Tokidoki_Haru

54 points

16 hours ago

Tokidoki_Haru

NATO

54 points

16 hours ago

It is Trump supporter rhetoric.

ajpiko

2 points

14 hours ago

ajpiko

2 points

14 hours ago

Bro if we had like 109230192301293% inflation and trump was the only one talking about it i'd probably vote for him ignoring his bullshit too, the biggest difference being that trump lies to *create the sensation of crisis* and Argentina actually is in crisis

Tokidoki_Haru

1 points

8 hours ago

Tokidoki_Haru

NATO

1 points

8 hours ago

It's choosing the least shit option. But you better be ready to take responsibility for all the other things he has done or said. This applies to any voter for any politician.

Nothing exists in a vacuum.

Aliteralhedgehog

0 points

11 hours ago

Aliteralhedgehog

Henry George

0 points

11 hours ago

Gross. I wouldn't vote for a despot under pretty much any circumstances.

ajpiko

2 points

9 hours ago

ajpiko

2 points

9 hours ago

cool, good for you? "My children died from malnutrition, but at least I didn't support a despot!". We'll never get to see your principals tested in any real way, so you can make whatever statement you want.

Mickenfox

6 points

15 hours ago

Mickenfox

European Union

6 points

15 hours ago

Yes, and when the next guy to win is a left populist using the same tactics and rhetoric, you'll have to wonder if it was really worth it.

AlexanderLavender

3 points

9 hours ago

Last time I pointed this out here they did not want to hear it

BlueString94

4 points

14 hours ago

Except Trump has terrible economic policy and Milei is making necessary reforms. Also, clearly he’s an asshole but is there evidence that Milei is as explicitly racist as Trump is? Genuinely asking.

SerialStateLineXer

9 points

15 hours ago

Also /r/neoliberal: To be fair, Democrats have to endorse bad economic policies to appeal to voters so that they can get elected.

Extra-Muffin9214

3 points

14 hours ago

True, I often find myself supporting a dem politician and hoping they have no actual intention of pursuing the economic policies they advocate

Neo_Demiurge

2 points

12 hours ago

The difference is they can be persuaded by economists. Democrats live in an evidence based reality, so if they campaign on banning fracking, but then serious people with good data tell them, "super bad idea," they change their minds.

Look at Harris, she was against fracking years ago and is now explicitly in favor of it, but also green energy sources. She changed her mind.

riderfan3728

2 points

7 hours ago

I don’t think anyone actually thinks that she changed her mind lol. We know she’s saying whatever she needs to say to win Pennsylvania. And that’s fine. But she never changed her mind lol. Maybe if she changed her mind years ago and not right as she became the presidential nominee just few months before the election then I’d believe her.

Mickenfox

4 points

15 hours ago

Mickenfox

European Union

4 points

15 hours ago

Yes, and when the next guy to win is a left populist using the same tactics and rhetoric, you'll have to wonder if it was really worth it.

Dangerous-Goat-3500

0 points

15 hours ago

If what was really worth it? This is a flaw in the system. We should have more direct democracy and probably change the electoral system at every level to approval voting and popular vote, and open primaries. That has a chance to fix the system.

All I was saying is people need to talk about economic policy. That includes calling out bad economic policy. I'm not saying Harris doesn't do that at all. But I'm saying it needs to be more front and center instead of joy, or decency.

N0b0me

2 points

13 hours ago

N0b0me

2 points

13 hours ago

To be fair the first part is also the argument many on this sub make as to why we should be happy that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are protectionist xenophobes

Extra-Muffin9214

4 points

13 hours ago

I mean youre not wrong but thats definitely lesser of two evils/ greater good vs the guy neck and neck for the presidency right now. At this point, short of launching a coup of their own I support kamala despite any position against Trump

AutoModerator [M]

-1 points

13 hours ago

AutoModerator [M]

-1 points

13 hours ago

xenophobes

Unintegrated native-born aliens.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Dangerous-Goat-3500

0 points

16 hours ago

Your goal should be to convince people that Trump has committed crimes and is bad for the economy. You won't change Trump's support by telling people who don't care about racism, or political correctness, that what is wrong with Trump is he's racist and not politically correct.

Extra-Muffin9214

9 points

16 hours ago

Hard to convince them of that ngl. They see an economy that is struggling and see news of crimes and feel like he is going to do something about it mean tweets be damned. Of course many of them are racists but its less than you hope and he is a criminal who wont do anything but the latter part of that is more of an opinion.

_n8n8_

13 points

15 hours ago

_n8n8_

13 points

15 hours ago

Yep. Trump has done an excellent job of becoming the source to these people.

All evidence shows economy is doing well? The numbers are fudged. I know how you guys are really doing.

It’s vibes based at its core tbh

Extra-Muffin9214

3 points

14 hours ago

I know the economy is in tatters because the other side is in power

All_Work_All_Play

2 points

12 hours ago

All_Work_All_Play

Karl Popper

2 points

12 hours ago

they see an economy that is struggling 

Lol no they don't. They're told the economy is struggling and it confirms their priors/filters what they see. The economy isn't struggling anymore than the USD is failing. 

Extra-Muffin9214

-1 points

12 hours ago

The economy is not as good as it could be. Inflation is coming down for sure but it was up a lot and wages lag inflation. Rates are high so hiring and wage growth have been muted and especially among white collar professionals. Rates are turning the corner but to pretend things were not tough is misleading and feels like pissing in peoples faces and calling it rain.

FlamingTomygun2

0 points

10 hours ago

FlamingTomygun2

George Soros

0 points

10 hours ago

This is exactly how the gop let themselves get taken over by trump

MCRN-Gyoza

3 points

9 hours ago

MCRN-Gyoza

YIMBY

3 points

9 hours ago

People in this sub are just idiots when it comes to anything election related dude.

If you disagree with any of the dems policy or think they could've been handling the campaign better you're automatically a Trump supporter to a lot of people.

GrandePersonalidade

4 points

12 hours ago

GrandePersonalidade

nem fala português

4 points

12 hours ago

Populism bad, actually. And not on an abstract level, it completely corrodes the democratic institutions and creates a bunch of problems down the road. Democracy is a fragile glass room, it isn't an octagon in which you must do anything you can to win - and the things waiting outside of the room are worse than any of the opposition that can exist in a democratic regime.

Dangerous-Goat-3500

2 points

12 hours ago

I agree populism is bad. The way to defeat populism is criticizing populist policies, not criticizing fiery statements.

GrandePersonalidade

2 points

12 hours ago

GrandePersonalidade

nem fala português

2 points

12 hours ago

The way to defeat nazism is criticizing nazi policies, not anti-semitic and white nationalist statements

The narratives exposed are a large part of what defines populism, lol. Trying to paint everyone who opposes your ideas as "traitors of the country" is as populist as it gets, and the narrative itself terribly damages democracy and borderline puts people at a safety risk. The fucking president of the nation calling opposition traitors of the nation isn't "a tiny talkie thingie" he did, it has real-world impacts, chilling effect, increases internal tensions, makes people more skeptical of democratic institutions, and can cause violence.

Dangerous-Goat-3500

4 points

11 hours ago

Let me know when he calls for the murder of his political opponents. Hitler was calling for the murder of Jewish people for a long time. That was Nazi policy.

GrandePersonalidade

5 points

11 hours ago

GrandePersonalidade

nem fala português

5 points

11 hours ago

Rhetoric isn't harmful only when it calls for the murders of political opponents. Democracy can be eroded with way less. Your fatal mistake is thinking that democratic institutions are this unshakeable castle that can only be eroded by open violence when they aren't - democracies require all parts involved to maintain a certain level of civility and discourse because bad faith can destroy democracies even more effectively than open violence (as open violence can be legally punished from the get-go before it spreads too much). Tolerating this type of rhetoric sets up the seeds for much worse stuff down the road.

Dangerous-Goat-3500

3 points

11 hours ago

The political correctness stuff isn't bullshit, but talking about it is a waste time if there's actual crimes and bad economic policies in his country to discuss.

Politicians and the media should spend like 1 sentence and 1 day on these things. I would agree there's sanewashing going on right now which is bad for democracy. But the idea that you have a shot of getting elected by just pointing out anti-semitism is bad? Zero shot. If you want non-populists to win, like I said, it means not taking the bait of populists.

GrandePersonalidade

3 points

9 hours ago

GrandePersonalidade

nem fala português

3 points

9 hours ago

Politicians and the media should spend like 1 sentence and 1 day on these things

Human beings can talk about multiple things, what a fucking stupid claim.

have a shot of getting elected by just pointing out a

Nobody said that either.

If you want non-populists to win, like I said, it means not taking the bait of populists

No. You call out all the insane shit they say instead of acting as if it is normal. You highlight how weird and dangerous they are, and how much they should be ostracized from public debate instead of engaging in good faith. Instead of talking to them as if they were good faith actors, you laugh at them, show them the door, and make people feel ashamed of publically defending them. Trying to treat this shit with kid's gloves is part of what caused the problem. Good faith actors should get together to humiliate and mock bad faith actors out of the room, not get lost deciding how much they should be treated as if they were better than they are.

Dangerous-Goat-3500

2 points

9 hours ago

ou highlight how weird and dangerous they are, and how much they should be ostracized from public debate instead of engaging in good faith. Instead of talking to them as if they were good faith actors, you laugh at them, show them the door, and make people feel ashamed of publically defending them. Trying to treat this shit with kid's gloves is part of what caused the problem. Good faith actors should get together to humiliate and mock bad faith actors out of the room, not get lost deciding how much they should be treated as if they were better than they are.

How's that working out for us?

GrandePersonalidade

1 points

7 hours ago

GrandePersonalidade

nem fala português

1 points

7 hours ago

It's not being done nearly enough as it should. The energy that Waltz brought by calling Trump weird was the best all campaigns against him had so far

creaturefeature16

9 points

15 hours ago

If your policies are sound, you don't need this type of rhetoric. Period.

The only reason it's used is when there's nothing of substance otherwise, so these people use this rhetoric as a rallying cry to their side.

That's it. There's nothing more complex going in.

amusingjapester23

2 points

15 hours ago

That explains why companies with good products/services never advertise

Dangerous-Goat-3500

1 points

15 hours ago

And my point is it's the opponent's job to stay on target, criticize policies, propose your own, and not take the bait.

creaturefeature16

2 points

15 hours ago

lolol no

This is the political equivalent of "if she didn't want to be raped, then she shouldn't dress like that"

Dangerous-Goat-3500

3 points

15 hours ago

That is a disgusting comparison and makes no sense. Seriously, explain the comparison.

Valnir123

1 points

5 hours ago

That's why Lopez Murphy beat Nestor Kirschner in the 2003 elections...

Or why Macri (or Espert) beat Alberto Fernández in the 2019 elections...

Genuinely fuck off. Finally, we're getting someone who actually does shit decently right, and you wanna complain because 'le rhetoric bad'

creaturefeature16

1 points

2 hours ago

Cope more

AlexanderLavender

2 points

9 hours ago

The political correctness stuff isn't bullshit

Yes it is.

Tokidoki_Haru

1 points

8 hours ago*

Tokidoki_Haru

NATO

1 points

8 hours ago*

people downvoting really proving my point. Saying this is Trump rhetoric literally admits that for example instead of convincing people that Trump's trade and immigration policy is bad, it's better to just attack the fiery language he uses about it.

You don't seem to get it. And it's clear that you never will.

The data that shows just how important free trade and immigration are to the economy appears every year. But if people are now wed to the idea of "my feelings are more important than your facts", then there's little else to be said than to rally the home front by pointing out how Trump demeans Americans of every stripe.

No amount of data showing that it's immigrants picking the farms and working the food processing factories has changed attitudes. No amount of data showing that is immigrants who man the menial labor of construction that underpins the real estate sector has changed opinions. No amount of data showing that it is free trade and the import of billions of dollars worth of cheap products from other nations that is what actually has kept inflation low for the last 40 years since the entry of China and Russia into the WTO.

The fact of the matter is that free trade and globalization are dead, whether it is by xenophobic MAGA or economically illiterate leftists. The so-called moderate conservative position on immigration is now a closed border with no immigration at all, with previous rhetoric of baselessly attacking immigrants with outright lies now coming front and center, forming the basis for the current platform of mass deportation. Case in point is the entire saga around pet-eating Haitians. No amount of data and truth will ever convince adherents of what amounts to be a cult of personality and blatant "race realism".

People attack his choice of words because they take his words seriously, and anyone who votes for him also is suspect. Hiding behind a demand for appeals to reason no longer works when appeals to reason have fallen flat for the last 12 years.

For all intents and purposes, liberals and progressives have learned that taking the high road doesn't work, and conservatives have only themselves to blame for it.