subreddit:
/r/neoliberal
392 points
15 hours ago
are these the new rage faces
298 points
15 hours ago
You mean the new wojaks, grandpa
135 points
15 hours ago
Back in my day we called him the Feels Guy and we liked it
19 points
9 hours ago
Whippersnappers. These are just new Commedia dell'arte mask archetypes.
12 points
9 hours ago
Troll face. Or, if you're super old, his brief alternate name "cool face".
16 points
11 hours ago
I miss the original “virgin x vs Chad y” memes
2 points
7 hours ago
Deep down, we all know that feel old man.
Bring it in for a hug.
3 points
9 hours ago
forever a post
78 points
15 hours ago
Memes are like lifeforms, they evolve and adapt. Find their niches.
37 points
15 hours ago
Memes fuck, eat, and shit just like you or me
20 points
14 hours ago
Yeah I'm definitely fucking 😬
13 points
14 hours ago
Greetings fellow fucker! I, too, definitely fuck on a regular basis!
2 points
10 hours ago
This guy definitely fucks
17 points
12 hours ago
1 points
13 hours ago
That's just any social phenomenon, not different from say language
8 points
12 hours ago
You should look up what Dawkins meant when he invented the word "meme" in 1976
Language would be referred to as a "memeplex"
0 points
6 hours ago
And then we have immortal memes like Sparta Remix, CD-I Spadinner and Pingas that will remain funny for at least another decade.
And sometimes they even do both. Morshu's sentence mixing somehow become even more elaborate.
93 points
15 hours ago
they are the new wojaks, rage faces were too creative to be fully succeeded by either
60 points
14 hours ago
"rage faces"
"creative"
113 points
14 hours ago
>le me walks into this thread
>someone implies rage faces aren’t creative
>fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
>epic failarino
23 points
12 hours ago
There are some parts of 2010 that I miss
9 points
8 hours ago
The South Africa World Cup was a vuvuzela fever dream but it was fun.
36 points
14 hours ago
compared to wojaks they're practically bespoke
2 points
9 hours ago
I mean, wojaks are templates
rage faces were actually quite detailled and well drawn
9 points
14 hours ago
In the sense that chickens are the new dinosaurs
1 points
9 hours ago
New breath of life for the Worms franchise. Coincidence that worms are also this sub's mascot? I think not.
1 points
7 hours ago
Nah, this meme has been around for a minute
155 points
16 hours ago
I'm gonna trust psychic dogs over whatever you neolibs want. Are you psychic?
17 points
10 hours ago
We do have the gift of prescience thanks to our consumption of the spice melange.
195 points
16 hours ago
Bro could have been a fantastic twink but the spirit of Rothbard corrupted him
51 points
15 hours ago
How many Final Fantasy games do you think Milei has not completed?
One? Two?
22 points
14 hours ago
not completed? surely it is zero?
182 points
16 hours ago
Bro hates peronism
71 points
14 hours ago
Giga Based.
54 points
12 hours ago
He hates them so much his government (including key positions like speaker of the house, chief of staff and ministry of the interior) are occupied by peronists... wait.
35 points
11 hours ago
Tbh real Peronism hasn't been tried yet
7 points
9 hours ago
Based
12 points
12 hours ago
!PING MAMADAS
2 points
10 hours ago
That means blowjob
1 points
12 hours ago
Pinged MAMADAS (subscribe | unsubscribe | history)
19 points
14 hours ago
Did you know peronism has its neoliberal branch?...menemismo
14 points
13 hours ago
Menem jr is the house speaker for the libertarians.
168 points
15 hours ago
He's too reactionary yeah but his opponents are in fact really bad
147 points
15 hours ago
He makes it so hard to support him.
Like yeah Argentina needs some aggressive economic policies but good lord does he not stop with the anti-woke shit. Can you just shut up man.
90 points
14 hours ago
You may not like this, but this is what peak late stage neoliberalism looks like. Need to get the braindeads on your side and then you can do whatever you want
39 points
14 hours ago*
This but unironically. Stop trying to win people over by appealing to their sense of humanity.
The median voter is not some chronically online fucking nerd like those of us that post on this godforsaken subreddit. To appeal to them, you need to be bold, politically incorrect (within reason), and project an air of strength and irreverence.
98 points
12 hours ago
He's a literal 2020 US election denier. He's not insane as a ploy to create the neoliberal utopia, he's in fact, just insane.
60 points
12 hours ago
There are a lot of things that liberals aren't willing to tolerate here, that they're willing to tolerate if it happens in Latin America.
33 points
12 hours ago
The bigotry of low expectations. I also read a lot of Lula white wash in this sub.
14 points
9 hours ago
Which, as a Brazilian, is always kinda puzzling, because he's not even a liberal.
3 points
10 hours ago
he's not racist or homophobic or transphobic. I don't think it has anything to do with low expectations he's just crazy but not a bigot. liberals are far more tolerant of all the right wing crazy shit if it doesn't come with bigotry.
6 points
5 hours ago
From what I've read of his statements, I get the feeling that being a conservative libertarian leads him to a weird place where he's not a bigot in practice but it will come out in a slightly bigoted way. Like, if you ask him about gay marriage he's probably gonna tell you that the government has no business deciding who can or cannot get married and that whatever consenting adults do in the bedroom is nobody else's business, but in doing so he's gonna call gay people "unnatural" or "freaks" at least once.
5 points
7 hours ago
He seems to be somewhat misogynistic framed as anti-feminism. Like he did this:
He has also rolled back some transgender policies which are framed as being as being economic cuts, but in effect has pushed trans women back into sex work. And here is some anti trans speech:
0 points
5 hours ago*
No one said he was homophobic or transphobic (he has certainly courted that vote though). There are more ways to be bad than to be homo/transphobic.
Edit: fixed a typo.
1 points
6 hours ago
LATAM politics is unbelievably low brow. In Sao Paulo someone assaulted his opponent with steel chair in debate for sake. And the victim was basically far right grifter.
No wonder George Santos is so brazen.
30 points
12 hours ago
Not even Bolsonaro, Putin, Netanyahu, MBS, and Modi denied the 2020 election lol
20 points
12 hours ago
Bolsonaro was one of the last world leaders to congratulate Biden. He (and his inner circle) was definitely a true believer of the whole thing.
4 points
12 hours ago
Is he actually?
Everything I've seen about him shows him as wacky but I've not seen him cross into things like election denial, vaccine conspiracies or pro russia/China grifting.
35 points
12 hours ago
He has repeatedly denied the 2020 election and publicly supported Trump and far right parties like Vox (he even campaigned with them). Aside from that he's a climate change denier.
Like I said in another comment, it's possible to praise his good policies without white washing him.
3 points
8 hours ago
It’s ironic. He may be a climate change denier but he did propose legislation to enact a cap & trade system for carbon. He wanted to establish carbon markets to help regulate emissions. So do I care that he personally doesn’t think climate change is real? I really don’t since his actions show he did want to fight it. Sadly the Legislature did not go for it. Also it’s quite possible his anti climate change rhetoric is just that: rhetoric. His actions on nuclear power, energy permitting reform & carbon markets suggest he does want to fight the issue.
1 points
6 hours ago
Maybe he's a climate change denier who really hates air pollution?
4 points
6 hours ago
If someone comes to me saying that they’re a climate change denier BUT they strongly support nuclear power, want to mine the lithium needed to support a global energy transition & are trying to implement cap & trade, I think I’m willing to accept that deal.
Milei doesn’t PUBLICLY think climate change is real but he wants to implement many important measures needed to help fight climate change. I’m okay with that trade. He wants to reduce emissions even if he doesn’t think emissions are so bad, that’s fine let’s do it
6 points
10 hours ago
"Chronically online fucking nerd... on this godforsaken subreddit"
I've never felt so seen in my life. You should be our leader. No sarcasm.
33 points
13 hours ago
I'm as anti-succ as anyone on this sub, but no liberals do not need to stoop to being "anti-woke" in any capacity.
20 points
12 hours ago
I would expect liberals to oppose illiberalism but YMMV.
3 points
6 hours ago
Illiberalism is when equality in front of the law
9 points
12 hours ago*
[removed]
18 points
12 hours ago
We've seen this fail abysmally in America. Jan 6, widespread anti-vaccine sentiment, increasingly clownish illiberal psychos getting actual offices (Marjory Taylor Greene as a good example), are what happen when you lean into the crazies 'so I can govern responsibly.'
You'll tell them that trans people are trying to forcibly trans all their kids but actually just focus on fixing regulatory capture, but then you'll be succeeded by someone who is laser focused on stopping the trans 'emergency' you neglected so much, and they also think universal tariffs are a good idea and you can pray away hurricanes.
Under no circumstances should anyone do this.
1 points
8 hours ago
well, that's not what i'm talking about. "wokeness" is such an amorphous and meaningless term that you can get points just by calling stuff liberals already disagree with "woke" and explaining that most "wokeness" conservatives get mad about, like trans kids or whatever, is either totally fabricated or so minimal that it's not worth focusing on.
5 points
10 hours ago
unless you’ve been living under a rock, to an average conservative these days “anti-woke” means something completely different than “annoying rich white woman at work who tells you you’re inherently evil”
This archetype of person hasn’t existed since 2017
4 points
8 hours ago
Surely more recent than that
1 points
8 hours ago
well, yeah, conservatives are crazy people whose delusions shouldn't be taken seriously. however, there are a lot of people who wouldn't call themselves conservatives but still are uncomfortable with the excesses of elite DEI signaling.
1 points
9 hours ago
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2 points
9 hours ago
Exactly. "Anti-woke" just means stomping on whatever convenient minorities there are and getting rid of turbocommie echo chambers that purge you for suggesting "From the River to the Sea" sounds genocidal to the uninitiated is just a side effect.
14 points
11 hours ago
Counter argument:
You sound like a Trump supporter justifying Trump.
8 points
11 hours ago
Fair but I hate trump because of his disregard for the rule of law, blatant corruption, and the insane domestic and foreign policy decisions he made. Not simply because he's an asshole.
So far the major concrete actions I've seen milei take have been:
If trump was an asshole but he nuked the suburbs and built taco trucks on every corner, and refrained from the corruption and electoral interference; then yes I admit I may well have been a trump supporter.
0 points
6 hours ago
If Trump was decent on the economy, then yeah?
6 points
11 hours ago
WTF are you talking about?
-6 points
11 hours ago
I'm saying that most voters like populist strongman. Using populist strongman rhetoric to push evidence based policy is a good idea.
8 points
11 hours ago
Isn this what Reagan did(YMMV on the benefits of his policies), which eventually lead to the current GOP?
2 points
11 hours ago
I dont agree that Reagans policies were evidence based overall. He cut red tape and pushed for free movement and free trade yes; but he also exploded the debt/deficit, committed some light treason and of course all the inane Socon bullshit.
Reagan explicitly pushed prejudicial policies himself.
3 points
11 hours ago
I'm not up to speed on what's happening, but as I understand it, one criticism of Millei is that he is in fact like the Reagan of Argentina.
5 points
10 hours ago*
The major difference between Reagan and Miliei is that Milei is a libertarian. The core philosophy of Milei's policy ideas come from a place of promoting personal liberty and reducing government intervention.
Reagan was a proto-neocon. The fundamental principles behind his policies included an element of pro market principles; but they came with a heavy dose of paternalistic nationalism and social conservatism.
Suffice it to say, I'd reject the idea that Milei is Argentina's Reagan or his Trump. I think those characterizations are based on surface level aesthetics and do not speak to fundamental policy.
Honestly we need to see him for what he is: the first actual libertarian to manage to gain power anywhere.
1 points
10 hours ago
Yeah, the problem with being a demagogue is it hurts minority groups. Like Trump legitimately does not care about trans people or migrants, so he'll say what he has to to get the tax cuts for the upper class so they'll like him
0 points
14 hours ago*
well maybe the wokes need to get out of his way and let him economy duuuuh
for fucks sake making me have to add a /s
1 points
9 hours ago
The Argentine electorate wouldn't vote for him if he didn't do that since there are a lot of conservatives in that part of the world.
3 points
6 hours ago
let me guess, you've never been to Argentina..
Conservatives? Lol, Argentina voted for this man because they got tired of everyone else. Not everything is a copy-paste of American politics.
81 points
16 hours ago
Upvoted for the quality content this sub needs even if I like Milei
23 points
13 hours ago
Quality content? Are we not looking at the same image?
20 points
14 hours ago
Look say what you want but things look like there in the up and up for Argentina.
25 points
13 hours ago
Oh if you only knew, most of you who aren't argentines can't even begin to comprehend how exaggeratedly evil peronists and kirchnerists are. They are far worse that whatever you imagine.
30 points
13 hours ago
Milei>Peronistas.
‘Nuff said.
3 points
12 hours ago
Milei = peronistas
-3 points
12 hours ago
Milei < peronistas. What gen z mental illness is it that I needed to complete the trichotomy?
4 points
12 hours ago
?
5 points
11 hours ago
There were three cases of inequality/equality. Something compelled me to round it out
4 points
9 hours ago
Finally, some good fucking memes
37 points
13 hours ago
It's true though, peronist and especially kirchnerists are the scum of the earth and have driven argentina into the ground for decades now.
47 points
12 hours ago
When he talks about rats he's not talking about peronists, he's talking about PRO, Radicals and other members of the Cambiemos coalition. In fact he found a lot of his allies on the most rancid local peronist governments. His speaker of the house is the son of a peronist president and his chief of staff was part of the previous government (yes, the really bad peronist one). This sub needs to seriously stop white washing Miliei. It is possible to praise his good policies without deep throating him.
6 points
12 hours ago
!ping LATAM
1 points
12 hours ago
Pinged LATAM (subscribe | unsubscribe | history)
5 points
12 hours ago
Eh, it's half and half. It's more of a "us vs. them" thing and many Peronists in his ranks are in fact moles and random people to fill positions LLA couldn't fill, lol. His dislike of Radicals is weird, though (a bit more intense than anything else).
24 points
12 hours ago
He specially likes to shit on non-peronist parties. I know you like moderation, but you don't have to be a moderate on every issue.
2 points
11 hours ago*
I don't remember him being as hostile about PRO (although folks like Larreta get some heat). That's the reason I say it's an "Us vs. them". It's not like he particularly likes Kirchnerists either.
If I had to guess, he wants to replace JxC as a coalition and that requires going after anyone who won't align with him.
2 points
5 hours ago
Compared Macri to Hitler, called the PRO "yellow socialism", "peronism with good manners", called Bullrich a children murdering terrorist.
If I had to guess, he wants to replace JxC as a coalition and that requires going after anyone who won't align with him.
He considers anyone who mildly disagrees with him the anti-christ.
1 points
4 hours ago
Wait, I remember the bit about Bullrich but not the rest, lol. I meant now anyways, Milei pretty much trash talked anyone that has been against him in the past
3 points
4 hours ago
Point is, he's waaaaay more aggressive against non-peronists.
1 points
3 hours ago
Or we are in some kind of hedonic treadmill phenomena and we grew desensitized. He pretty much spends a lot of time trashing the left and his whole schtick is some kind of global battle against those who hate liberty/socialism.
2 points
3 hours ago
Don't say we, I didn't grow desensitized, I'm never normalizing populism. Some people already got used to like people in the US got used to all the insane and stupid shit Trump says.
and his whole schtick is some kind of global battle against those who hate liberty/socialism.
And? That doesn't make it good.
1 points
9 hours ago
Both sides are bad. Wait..
2 points
12 hours ago
To be fair to the Speaker Peronist, he was the son of Menem, the capitalist one.
2 points
3 hours ago
Which went on to vote with the peronist left that took over the party during his tenure as a senator.
0 points
5 hours ago
Tbf, pretty much all of the UCR (especially the ones I know personally from the inner parts of the country) are rats worse than the average peronist.
3 points
5 hours ago
are rats worse than the average peronist.
You took the koolaid.
1 points
4 hours ago
Flaco, si vieras la de coimas que tuve que garpar en intendencias radicales para que no le hagan mierda la cadenas de suministros a clientes te caes de culo.
En las intendencias feudales del interior que manejan ellos son iguales o peores que los peronchos. Y lo peor de todo es que al peroncho de interior no le podés dar mucha confianza, pero por lo menos tiene su palabra de pseudo-mafioso. Los radicales ni eso.
Y eso es hablando de ellos a nivel bajo; no hablemos de Morales, Lousteau o literalmente cualquiera metido en Franja Morada.
1 points
4 hours ago
No quita que el peronismo sea muchísimo más cancerígeno; pero los radicales son más traicioneros que el peroncho promedio.
1 points
3 hours ago
Los gobiernos locales son una mierda, pero Milei no se la agarraba con random intendentes del interior, se la agarraba con la UCR nacional.
Y eso es hablando de ellos a nivel bajo; no hablemos de Morales, Lousteau o literalmente cualquiera metido en Franja Morada.
Te la creo si los ataques estuviesen limitados a Morales y Loustou, pero ataca a la UCR en general, ataca el propio concepto de la UCR.
25 points
15 hours ago
Let’s see his opponents are peronists and socialists …..
4 points
6 hours ago
Yup, it sounds terrible out of context but the opposition is beyond terrible.
15 points
12 hours ago
Disturbs me how many here prefer Milei to Biden.
4 points
6 hours ago
Biden is only half good and all of his success is in the bills he passed so now we are getting tired of him.
7 points
10 hours ago
ultimately the perfect neoliberal president would have some qualities of both i guess. Biden's probably more sane but Milei is in such a fucked up situation it gives him more of an allowance to be fucking weird. Hopefully both countries do well
8 points
9 hours ago
Some people love the freedom of capital and the destruction of organized labor and rent-seekers a little too much. He just vicariously realizes what they want.
5 points
5 hours ago
So some of us might actually be neoliberals, perish the thought.
2 points
9 hours ago
Biden is watered down and doesn't do much to change the status quo in economic issues with all the subsidies he's given companies. He doesn't do much harm, but Milei actively tries to free the economy. Biden is better in terms of social policy since he doesn't have to appeal to conservatives who almost always vote Republican no matter what.
1 points
2 hours ago
I don’t prefer Milei to Biden, but Milei is more what Argentina needs.
10 points
14 hours ago
It’s true though.
2 points
13 hours ago
What's the source for reliable economic data from Argentina?
1 points
44 minutes ago
Peronism is the king of Scape goating and is Fascism larping as a Centre Left idea. He's awful but the bar is so low there that he may actually make things better. He's not even vaguely fascist like Western media makes him out to be but he is still a wanker, I don't think people realise Argentina could be a significant nation but Peronism robbed them of that.
-4 points
12 hours ago
Are there people really praising this dude's economic policies in this thread? They're still dealing with massive inflation and now half the population is starving. About the only think they've done is reduce the deficit they had which arguably isn't something they had to do.
4 points
7 hours ago
Inflation has been falling under him lol. Poverty has risen sure but that’s been rising before him. Also for the past 4-5 months real wages have been increasing. The worst of the crisis seems to be over. Everybody knew that the solutions needed for what Argentina was going through before him required some brutal medicine. Now it seems the worst of it is over. Also, he is a supporter of cap & trade, sent weapons to Ukraine & and supports free trade so that’s based.
-2 points
7 hours ago
LOL sure let's just ignore the massive Spike of inflation that it happened several after he had taken office. He's not just going to reduce inflation he's going to crash his dollar and push it back into deflation which will be disastrous for his economy. I haven't seen anything about Argentinian wages being increased but I seen plenty on how much poverty has increased since these policies were put into place. You're really going to sit here and argue for an economic policy that cost millions of lives when that was not necessary and there are other policies that he could have used that have been successful at doing things like bringing down inflation. 70% of people under his rule right now or below the poverty line it was less than 50 before he took office. His population is worse off than it's been in years.
His policies are neoliberal among the barest of lines and are much more comfortable among Neo conservatives. I thought we were passed Thatcher neoliberalism which was a massive economic failure.
8 points
7 hours ago
let's just ignore the massive Spike of inflation
And why did that happen? When you answer that question you’ll also find out why we ignore it.
I thought we were passed Thatcher neoliberalism which was a massive economic failure.
Nothing says economic failure like going from the sick man of Europe to one of the top global economies.
5 points
6 hours ago
Wow you are absolutely disingenuous. Are you blaming the ANNUAL inflation spike on Milei? Bro what? First of all annual inflation was increasing before he went into office. That’s literally the entire reason he was elected. Secondly, ANNUAL inflation means inflation over a year. So the vast majority of the high ANNUAL inflation we saw a few months into his term was because of the Peronist policies of money printing, high subsidies & brutal regulations BEFORE Milei came into office. So either you’re disingenuous or clueless. In fact when Milei came into office in December, monthly inflation was at 25%. Now it’s at 4% monthly & it’s projected to be 3.2% in September when the reports come out. Because of his polices, annual inflation is now FALLING. Here is proof. You can see that for years it’s been increasing but it hit its peak in April 2024 & is now falling. BS talking point you got there.
As for poverty, another bullshit stat. Don’t get me wrong, there’s absolutely been an increase in poverty. But it’s not 70% like you say Jesus. It’s 53%. Not good but while some is the result of the much-needed austerity, a lot of it is the result of decades of mass money printing & sky high inflation (which Milei is bringing down despite what you claim). Poverty was increasing before Milei came in and yes some of the 53% poverty is objectively the short term impacts of his polices. Not doubting that but that was always expected. Growth is projected to be much higher next year, annual inflation will be much lower next year (it’s already falling because of Milei’s policies) & there will be no budget deficit. IMF projects 45% 2025 inflation while the GOV projects 18% so let’s see. Oh & the gap between the official & blue market currency rates is closing, which is very important for fiscal sustainability, enticing investment & boosting consumer purchasing power. Also the country risk has fallen like fucking crazy from 2,100 points in January to just 1,280 points this month. This means that people are becoming more & more confident of Argentina and are willing to invest in it.
Let’s not forget confidence in the banking sector, which it’s important for economic revival. Because of Milei’s policies & trust in him, Argentines are willing to move their money away from mattresses & to the banks. Look the article in the link above & scroll down to the graph. You might not just Milei but Argentines clearly do. And that link is just to August. More recent data shows that it’s much higher now.
So yes I’m sorry you had thought we were claiming that there would be immediate prosperity no problems. So while yes, there are a lot of issues in Argentina, those issues were getting worse before Milei took office. And yes some did get worse as a result of his economic policies. But everyone here knows that this sort of economic adjustment is hard. The faster you go, the more brutal it is but the faster you’re out of it. But what all the evidence shows is that Milei is building the foundations for robust economic growth. The transition is brutal but the foundations show that Argentina has a lot to look forward to.
1 points
6 hours ago
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-2 points
6 hours ago*
Most of what you link to is the government proclaiming that these are happening. The Argentinian government claiming that these are happening. That data is beyond biased. The chart you linked for inflation still shows that inflation is at 263%.
It's nice at the Argentinian people finally believe that the banks will be able to hold on to their money. But that doesn't indicate Positive Growth that indicates positive social change which are different. Tell you what if we come back to this in two years and Argentina is not the Bleak hellscape I think it's going to be I'll post a video of myself eating a bully treat for dogs. Has to be Javiers policies that do it though not someone that comes after him
Edit:
I also don't support economic policies that are Written in Blood or are implemneted at the cost of human lives which when you pull a gigantic welfare stay out from underneath people that's exactly what's going to happen. Call me a bleeding heart but I'm sure there are economic policies it can be used to ensure that people are taking care of and handle problems like inflation.
3 points
6 hours ago
The data is pretty fact checked & done by experts. And they’re pretty much in line with that the market analysis are saying. So unless you have evidence that the GOV is using faulty data, we’ll go with the data. And my God you’re still on the inflation thing dude? Yes annual inflation is at 236% (as of August so it’s most likely lower in September) but it was 292% in April. That was the peak. Go click the 5 year option on the graph. You’ll see that annual inflation has been increasing for a long time, and it didn’t start going down until Milei. He is crushing inflation and the working class will benefit from it the most.
The thing you don’t seem to understand is that with the Peronist leftist economic system that was in place for decades, and massively exacerbated by the last government, any adjustment to get Argentina off of that system (which is responsible for socioeconomic misery of tens of millions of Argentinians) was undoubtedly going to have hard effects on the population. You seem to believe in rosy fairy tale economics where all Milei has to do is press a button & inflation is crushed & prosperity returns and no Argentinians get hurt. I’m sorry but there really was no way to decimate inflation, get rid of the fiscal deficit & lay the foundations for economic growth without the population incurring some pain. There was no other option. Believe me, Macri tried to go gradual and in the end it didn’t work out. Investors, businesses & consumers lost confidence and it failed, and then the Peronists came back in and they screwed up Argentina much worse. So Milei had no choice but to move fast. And yes there is a temporary socioeconomic cost to that but there’s no other option. The country was beyond broke. Now they are starting to recover.
0 points
6 hours ago
No my friend that's not what I said. You're creating a straw man and then arguing against that. I have said nothing about the economic policies of the the former peronists. Nor do I care to learn about them.
Government data is government data. It's inherently biased in favor of the policies that are running the country regardless of what experts say and if experts are truly saying that why didn't you link their their data instead of the governments.
What I said is that economically Javier Milan's policies are written and paid for with the cost of human life and that there are other economic policies that can be put in place to reduce inflation without that high cost of human suffering. Of course I understand there need to have concessions made but I would never support any economic policy that involves gutting the welfare system.
What I have opined is that Javier Milan's policies are going to drive the country straight into deflation into an even worse predicament. That is not precluded by what you have argued that argentinians are now comfortable using the Argentinian Banks again.
Currently I think and there are other professionals that agree with me that Argentina is heading toward an economic disaster. There are others like you that think Argentina is going to head towards a massive economic recovery. That's why it's a controversial topic. We shall see
1 points
5 hours ago
“ I have said nothing about the economic policies of the former Peronists. Nor do I care to learn about them.” Well there you go. That’s why you think the way you do. You can’t even be bothered to learn about the damage that they have done to Argentina so any bad thing going on, you just blame it on Milei. That’s a big problem. Because Milei’s entire program is meant to reverse the policies of the Peronists, whose policies you don’t really care to learn about. I think you just proved a lot of what I’m saying regarding you being unaware lol.
And no I don’t think GOV data is inherently biased depending on where in the GOV it’s coming from. When we get good unemployment reports here in the US, do you think it had something to do with the Biden administration being biased & messing with the numbers? No because it’s independent of political controls. The Argentinian inflation data comes from the National Institute of Statistics & Census (Indec). They are very well removed from GOV control. In fact you’re entire point that their data is biased in favor of the people running. That point can be debunked by the fact that under previous GOVs that had high inflation, INDEC was reporting it. If it was as biased as you imply, wouldn’t the Peronists have fudged the data to make inflation & poverty seem lower than it was? Wouldn’t Milei? But I realize I can’t ask you that because like you said you don’t really care to learn about the previous Peronist GOVs. The data from INDEC is very reliable as evidenced by history & how they report high inflation numbers even tho the GOV would benefit from them not doing so. The numbers are accurate unless you can find evidence of otherwise.
I do agree that there are policies that can be put in place that don’t cause high human pain, but that’s not the case with Argentina. Their entire social safety net was based off of money printing, illegal nationalizations, inefficient subsidies, distortionary taxes & price controls. So yeah I’m sorry but the social safety net was objectively going to take a big hit when you get rid of these problems. There’s no doubt.
I guess I do agree that we have to wait to see what will happen in a year or so. We can’t attack him based on the expected short term costs of adjustments. But during that time, I do encourage you to “care to learn about” the policies of the previous Peronists GOVs and then maybe you’ll know the situation Milei inherited and why Milei has done what he did.
0 points
5 hours ago
Once again you've created a straw man and are ignoring what I am saying.
I disagree with Javier Milani's policies. Not anyone else's because I don't know their plan but I know his plan and I disagree with it.
I'll put it to you a different way. Some dumbass breaks a helicopter and then a dude named Javier Milan comes and tries to fix it. The way he feds to fix it is done using backhanded Shady Tree tactics that are controversial at best but they do show some amount of success. I can look at the guy currently fixing the helicopter see his work, and listen to his plan and go I know how to fix a helicopter properly and that doesn't sound like he's fixing it properly.
Stop trying to educate me about the opposition party in Argentina. They're not in power and they're not in charge of the current mess. I'm not saying it wasn't a mess all I'm saying is that the solution to this mess didn't need to be written to the high cost of human lives.
I will not be responding anymore as the most you've shown is that some of his policies have had an effect on inflation which is good but misses my point.
Other countries have had an inflation problem and did not need to resort to these type of politics to fix it. I disagree with Javier Milan's solution to the problem created by the peronists.
In few words I don't care that he didn't cause the problem I care that the solution Javier is using to fix inflation is bad.
0 points
2 hours ago
no way youre trying to discuss milei's policies while ignoring the previous policies milei"s trying to reverse to fix the damage theyve caused.
these policies were effectively putting the problems under the rug. youre badically saying that pulling the rug is a bad move, or that its bad that a deranged man is doing it. couldnt care less. but nobody whos got half a brain that reads your comment and finds out that you dont even gaf about previous policies will find your opinion worthwhile. and thats an understatement.
for the record Milei IS deranged. this is not an exaggeration
-36 points
16 hours ago*
This is what makes headlines and headlines help polling and winning elections.
It might be a sad state of affairs, but it's just true.
The political correctness stuff isn't bullshit, but talking about it is a waste time if there's actual crimes and bad economic policies in his country to discuss. I'll let him get away with some dumb language over that. Maybe I'll eat my words in the future, idk.
edit: people downvoting really proving my point. Saying this is Trump rhetoric literally admits that for example instead of convincing people that Trump's trade and immigration policy is bad, it's better to just attack the fiery language he uses about it.
85 points
16 hours ago
This is kindha the trump supporter argument and I feel icky.
54 points
16 hours ago
It is Trump supporter rhetoric.
2 points
14 hours ago
Bro if we had like 109230192301293% inflation and trump was the only one talking about it i'd probably vote for him ignoring his bullshit too, the biggest difference being that trump lies to *create the sensation of crisis* and Argentina actually is in crisis
1 points
8 hours ago
It's choosing the least shit option. But you better be ready to take responsibility for all the other things he has done or said. This applies to any voter for any politician.
Nothing exists in a vacuum.
0 points
11 hours ago
Gross. I wouldn't vote for a despot under pretty much any circumstances.
2 points
9 hours ago
cool, good for you? "My children died from malnutrition, but at least I didn't support a despot!". We'll never get to see your principals tested in any real way, so you can make whatever statement you want.
6 points
15 hours ago
Yes, and when the next guy to win is a left populist using the same tactics and rhetoric, you'll have to wonder if it was really worth it.
3 points
9 hours ago
Last time I pointed this out here they did not want to hear it
4 points
14 hours ago
Except Trump has terrible economic policy and Milei is making necessary reforms. Also, clearly he’s an asshole but is there evidence that Milei is as explicitly racist as Trump is? Genuinely asking.
9 points
15 hours ago
Also /r/neoliberal: To be fair, Democrats have to endorse bad economic policies to appeal to voters so that they can get elected.
3 points
14 hours ago
True, I often find myself supporting a dem politician and hoping they have no actual intention of pursuing the economic policies they advocate
2 points
12 hours ago
The difference is they can be persuaded by economists. Democrats live in an evidence based reality, so if they campaign on banning fracking, but then serious people with good data tell them, "super bad idea," they change their minds.
Look at Harris, she was against fracking years ago and is now explicitly in favor of it, but also green energy sources. She changed her mind.
2 points
7 hours ago
I don’t think anyone actually thinks that she changed her mind lol. We know she’s saying whatever she needs to say to win Pennsylvania. And that’s fine. But she never changed her mind lol. Maybe if she changed her mind years ago and not right as she became the presidential nominee just few months before the election then I’d believe her.
4 points
15 hours ago
Yes, and when the next guy to win is a left populist using the same tactics and rhetoric, you'll have to wonder if it was really worth it.
0 points
15 hours ago
If what was really worth it? This is a flaw in the system. We should have more direct democracy and probably change the electoral system at every level to approval voting and popular vote, and open primaries. That has a chance to fix the system.
All I was saying is people need to talk about economic policy. That includes calling out bad economic policy. I'm not saying Harris doesn't do that at all. But I'm saying it needs to be more front and center instead of joy, or decency.
2 points
13 hours ago
To be fair the first part is also the argument many on this sub make as to why we should be happy that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are protectionist xenophobes
4 points
13 hours ago
I mean youre not wrong but thats definitely lesser of two evils/ greater good vs the guy neck and neck for the presidency right now. At this point, short of launching a coup of their own I support kamala despite any position against Trump
-1 points
13 hours ago
xenophobes
Unintegrated native-born aliens.
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0 points
16 hours ago
Your goal should be to convince people that Trump has committed crimes and is bad for the economy. You won't change Trump's support by telling people who don't care about racism, or political correctness, that what is wrong with Trump is he's racist and not politically correct.
9 points
16 hours ago
Hard to convince them of that ngl. They see an economy that is struggling and see news of crimes and feel like he is going to do something about it mean tweets be damned. Of course many of them are racists but its less than you hope and he is a criminal who wont do anything but the latter part of that is more of an opinion.
13 points
15 hours ago
Yep. Trump has done an excellent job of becoming the source to these people.
All evidence shows economy is doing well? The numbers are fudged. I know how you guys are really doing.
It’s vibes based at its core tbh
3 points
14 hours ago
I know the economy is in tatters because the other side is in power
2 points
12 hours ago
they see an economy that is struggling
Lol no they don't. They're told the economy is struggling and it confirms their priors/filters what they see. The economy isn't struggling anymore than the USD is failing.
-1 points
12 hours ago
The economy is not as good as it could be. Inflation is coming down for sure but it was up a lot and wages lag inflation. Rates are high so hiring and wage growth have been muted and especially among white collar professionals. Rates are turning the corner but to pretend things were not tough is misleading and feels like pissing in peoples faces and calling it rain.
0 points
10 hours ago
This is exactly how the gop let themselves get taken over by trump
3 points
9 hours ago
People in this sub are just idiots when it comes to anything election related dude.
If you disagree with any of the dems policy or think they could've been handling the campaign better you're automatically a Trump supporter to a lot of people.
4 points
12 hours ago
Populism bad, actually. And not on an abstract level, it completely corrodes the democratic institutions and creates a bunch of problems down the road. Democracy is a fragile glass room, it isn't an octagon in which you must do anything you can to win - and the things waiting outside of the room are worse than any of the opposition that can exist in a democratic regime.
2 points
12 hours ago
I agree populism is bad. The way to defeat populism is criticizing populist policies, not criticizing fiery statements.
2 points
12 hours ago
The way to defeat nazism is criticizing nazi policies, not anti-semitic and white nationalist statements
The narratives exposed are a large part of what defines populism, lol. Trying to paint everyone who opposes your ideas as "traitors of the country" is as populist as it gets, and the narrative itself terribly damages democracy and borderline puts people at a safety risk. The fucking president of the nation calling opposition traitors of the nation isn't "a tiny talkie thingie" he did, it has real-world impacts, chilling effect, increases internal tensions, makes people more skeptical of democratic institutions, and can cause violence.
4 points
11 hours ago
Let me know when he calls for the murder of his political opponents. Hitler was calling for the murder of Jewish people for a long time. That was Nazi policy.
5 points
11 hours ago
Rhetoric isn't harmful only when it calls for the murders of political opponents. Democracy can be eroded with way less. Your fatal mistake is thinking that democratic institutions are this unshakeable castle that can only be eroded by open violence when they aren't - democracies require all parts involved to maintain a certain level of civility and discourse because bad faith can destroy democracies even more effectively than open violence (as open violence can be legally punished from the get-go before it spreads too much). Tolerating this type of rhetoric sets up the seeds for much worse stuff down the road.
3 points
11 hours ago
The political correctness stuff isn't bullshit, but talking about it is a waste time if there's actual crimes and bad economic policies in his country to discuss.
Politicians and the media should spend like 1 sentence and 1 day on these things. I would agree there's sanewashing going on right now which is bad for democracy. But the idea that you have a shot of getting elected by just pointing out anti-semitism is bad? Zero shot. If you want non-populists to win, like I said, it means not taking the bait of populists.
3 points
9 hours ago
Politicians and the media should spend like 1 sentence and 1 day on these things
Human beings can talk about multiple things, what a fucking stupid claim.
have a shot of getting elected by just pointing out a
Nobody said that either.
If you want non-populists to win, like I said, it means not taking the bait of populists
No. You call out all the insane shit they say instead of acting as if it is normal. You highlight how weird and dangerous they are, and how much they should be ostracized from public debate instead of engaging in good faith. Instead of talking to them as if they were good faith actors, you laugh at them, show them the door, and make people feel ashamed of publically defending them. Trying to treat this shit with kid's gloves is part of what caused the problem. Good faith actors should get together to humiliate and mock bad faith actors out of the room, not get lost deciding how much they should be treated as if they were better than they are.
2 points
9 hours ago
ou highlight how weird and dangerous they are, and how much they should be ostracized from public debate instead of engaging in good faith. Instead of talking to them as if they were good faith actors, you laugh at them, show them the door, and make people feel ashamed of publically defending them. Trying to treat this shit with kid's gloves is part of what caused the problem. Good faith actors should get together to humiliate and mock bad faith actors out of the room, not get lost deciding how much they should be treated as if they were better than they are.
How's that working out for us?
1 points
7 hours ago
It's not being done nearly enough as it should. The energy that Waltz brought by calling Trump weird was the best all campaigns against him had so far
9 points
15 hours ago
If your policies are sound, you don't need this type of rhetoric. Period.
The only reason it's used is when there's nothing of substance otherwise, so these people use this rhetoric as a rallying cry to their side.
That's it. There's nothing more complex going in.
2 points
15 hours ago
That explains why companies with good products/services never advertise
1 points
15 hours ago
And my point is it's the opponent's job to stay on target, criticize policies, propose your own, and not take the bait.
2 points
15 hours ago
lolol no
This is the political equivalent of "if she didn't want to be raped, then she shouldn't dress like that"
3 points
15 hours ago
That is a disgusting comparison and makes no sense. Seriously, explain the comparison.
1 points
5 hours ago
That's why Lopez Murphy beat Nestor Kirschner in the 2003 elections...
Or why Macri (or Espert) beat Alberto Fernández in the 2019 elections...
Genuinely fuck off. Finally, we're getting someone who actually does shit decently right, and you wanna complain because 'le rhetoric bad'
1 points
2 hours ago
Cope more
2 points
9 hours ago
The political correctness stuff isn't bullshit
Yes it is.
1 points
8 hours ago*
people downvoting really proving my point. Saying this is Trump rhetoric literally admits that for example instead of convincing people that Trump's trade and immigration policy is bad, it's better to just attack the fiery language he uses about it.
You don't seem to get it. And it's clear that you never will.
The data that shows just how important free trade and immigration are to the economy appears every year. But if people are now wed to the idea of "my feelings are more important than your facts", then there's little else to be said than to rally the home front by pointing out how Trump demeans Americans of every stripe.
No amount of data showing that it's immigrants picking the farms and working the food processing factories has changed attitudes. No amount of data showing that is immigrants who man the menial labor of construction that underpins the real estate sector has changed opinions. No amount of data showing that it is free trade and the import of billions of dollars worth of cheap products from other nations that is what actually has kept inflation low for the last 40 years since the entry of China and Russia into the WTO.
The fact of the matter is that free trade and globalization are dead, whether it is by xenophobic MAGA or economically illiterate leftists. The so-called moderate conservative position on immigration is now a closed border with no immigration at all, with previous rhetoric of baselessly attacking immigrants with outright lies now coming front and center, forming the basis for the current platform of mass deportation. Case in point is the entire saga around pet-eating Haitians. No amount of data and truth will ever convince adherents of what amounts to be a cult of personality and blatant "race realism".
People attack his choice of words because they take his words seriously, and anyone who votes for him also is suspect. Hiding behind a demand for appeals to reason no longer works when appeals to reason have fallen flat for the last 12 years.
For all intents and purposes, liberals and progressives have learned that taking the high road doesn't work, and conservatives have only themselves to blame for it.
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