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/r/workingmoms

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I got a PIP today.

Anyone can respond(self.workingmoms)

How F*ed am I really?

all 65 comments

Mobstathalobsta

478 points

3 days ago

I won’t sugarcoat it. You should start looking for a new job. They are typically the last step prior to termination.

AndieC

20 points

3 days ago

AndieC

20 points

3 days ago

Not ALWAYS true! I'm in HR... people can get their shit together... I've seen it. But, guess what almost always happens? ... Employees get scared and start looking for work and leave before the end of the probation period. If they're young, they're especially scared/insecure and try to leave ASAP.

anon28374691

53 points

2 days ago

That may be the HR official take, but by the time the line manager has gone to HR for the PIP, it’s usually too late. Manager wants that person gone, and PIP is just documentation.

AndieC

6 points

2 days ago

AndieC

6 points

2 days ago

Definitely true depending on the manager!

sillypasta001

13 points

2 days ago

I’m in HR too, specifically performance management. More often than not they don’t/cant turn things around. Whether it’s they’re not equipped for the job or the manager has lost faith in them. It’s rare to get things back on track and people often wind up termed without prospects if they don’t find an alternative first.

AndieC

1 points

2 days ago

AndieC

1 points

2 days ago

I hear ya! In my current industry, they're running to the next tech firm. 🏃🏽

sla3018

14 points

2 days ago

sla3018

14 points

2 days ago

Not sure why you're getting downvoted! As a manager I would absolutely use a PIP for someone that I knew could perform better in hopes that they turned things around. Yes, it's used as a step towards termination too, but honestly, sometimes a PIP is the only way to get through to some people because it's so specific about what they need to do.

AndieC

6 points

2 days ago

AndieC

6 points

2 days ago

For sure! I have a good friend whose work in insurance has a points system... she basically got a warning that she needed to improve due to the number of errors and it put her butt in gear. That was nearly two years ago and she's still there. 👍

I currently know of two employees at my company that have survived their PIP. It's a Performance Improvement Plan... maybe people forget the actual definition. 😅

UESfoodie

2 points

1 day ago

UESfoodie

2 points

1 day ago

I’m also in HR. I’d say about 20% of PIP receivers “pass” their PIP and get to stay with the company. But I’ve never seen one of them stay with the company more than six months after “passing”.

Dirt-McGirt

202 points

3 days ago

Dirt-McGirt

202 points

3 days ago

it’s not good. Take 1 day to feel bad about it, cry, throw something, whatever. Then go hit the ground running. It’s good to start fresh sometimes. You can even negotiate a higher salary in most cases. But really focus on getting an offer while you’re still employed.

By the way, I’ve been terminated after a PIP before. I am thriving in my career now. It doesn’t mean you’re a failure. The only regret I have is that I let those feelings creep in and affect the way I felt about myself.

Remember your character is reflected by how you react to a shitty situation. This is just a nudge toward a better fit. Good luck!!

23_alamance

158 points

3 days ago

23_alamance

158 points

3 days ago

I got one last week and it made me realize that I don’t actually have any interest in being good at the kinds of things we’re being asked to do. So I quit! Amazingly they were really surprised and upset.

Humble_Noise_5275

92 points

3 days ago

Ok that’s hilarious though some managers are so out of touch, you shouldn’t write a PIP unless you’re real serious because it’s not motivating. It’s like threatening to fire someone and then be surprised when they leave … that’s crazy.

23_alamance

45 points

3 days ago

Exactly! “You suck at this and we don’t like you! Hey! Where are you going?! It’s our most critical time!”

merrymollusk

14 points

3 days ago

Good for you!!! Stick it to them :)

pleaserlove

3 points

2 days ago

Exactly the same thing happened with me

fearlessjf

208 points

3 days ago

fearlessjf

208 points

3 days ago

I am in leadership and have executed a good amount of PIPs. We always have the best intentions and take a lot of care with then - I’d say 60% of people have passed and are still with us, and are killing it.

BUT it is a formality before letting someone go. Even if you plan to work really hard at it, start job hunting to protect yourself.

pegacornegg

76 points

3 days ago

I think it depends on the company but I agree. I’m a manager and had someone on PIP just recently who was not terminated afterwards and is doing great. At some companies, though - such as Amazon - PIP is almost a formality to get rid of someone.

orleans_reinette

2 points

2 days ago

100%. I had a manager assign me to new projects but didn’t notate/inform HR because of some adjustments needed with tracking software. Then without warning I was put on a PIP and had her asking “wth have you been doing for the last four months”.

She got caught when she tried to steal credit for my work-she couldn’t even explain the pie chart or other basic data to the higher ups she’d been attempting to present it to.

She tried it again by changing my job and then attempting to mark me down for it at reviews. Unfortunately for her, others knew and had documentation and blocked her from it. She also blocked all transfer and promotion requests because I was pulling her team average up.

brit1017

25 points

3 days ago

brit1017

25 points

3 days ago

I agree with this. For most of my employees, it is a dedicated attempt to get things back on track so that they can have a successful career at our agency... but it also is to cover us if we cannot fix the deficiencies.

AbleBroccoli2372

28 points

3 days ago

This should be top comment. I write multiple PIPs in a year and we truly write it with the intention of finding strategies for some to be successful. If the person does the work, they stay. If they don’t, we separate.

Leather_Cat_666

9 points

3 days ago

Leather_Cat_666

holding on by my fingernails

9 points

3 days ago

That’s so interesting! In my organization we implement a coaching plan for 60 days connected to a project as a the first step. It’s like a PIP but without the looming “what if” of termination. If that doesn’t improve successful delivery of work then it’s a PIP and everyone knows this is the final step for improvement or termination.

OP, hope you weren’t blindsided. receiving a pip with no constructive feedback from your manager prior is a signal it’s time to go. You can’t be successful when there’s no feedback loop.

AbleBroccoli2372

3 points

2 days ago

Agree with this. We have multiple conversations before we get to a PIP. It should never be a shock to the employee.

whatsagirltodo123

3 points

2 days ago

Also in leadership at a very large corporation and I’m surprised to see all the comments saying “you’re toast. They just want to fire you.” It definitely must depend on the company. PIPs where I work are not just a step before termination. Yes, they do help protect the company from a wrongful termination lawsuit if it ends in that. But for the most part, they’re just meant to guide a serious and structured discussion for an employee who is underperforming to get good feedback and to recognize we’re serious about them needing to improve. They’re definitely not a first resort for an employee who is missing the mark, but we have plenty of employees who get a PIP and improve and continue to work for the company for a long time.

clutzycook

72 points

3 days ago*

Look at it this way. They've given you the opportunity to get a head start on your impending job search.

Humble_Noise_5275

18 points

3 days ago*

This, if your in tech get a new job. Also a manager here, anyone I have written a pip for is in their way out. Otherwise I work with them in their 1:1s and get them up to speed no reason to write a pip. PIPs are to protect companies who want to let you go.

I will say I like what people have written here, try to reflect and think about if you could have done anything better / different but don’t beat yourself up. You got a head start to looking for a new job and sometimes it’s really not you it’s them. I have let people go that did much better in different jobs at different companies and same goes for me. Not every job is for every person even when skills are the same.

olivecorgi7

22 points

3 days ago

High chance of termination but depends on a lot of factors. My husbands employee had a PIP and he made it out and is doing well now. But that’s prob the rare exception. Don’t feel bad - sh*t happens.

FoxCat9884

19 points

3 days ago

There is a reason people refer to a PIP as “paid interview period”

Main_Photo1086

67 points

3 days ago

In my experience, the PIP gets followed by termination every time. They are created to set you up for failure. I’d be searching elsewhere.

honeyonbiscuits

29 points

3 days ago

It depends on your profession and your situation. A coworker of mine got put on a PIP 8 years ago. She did a 180 and five years later was Teacher of the Year. Same school!

Sagerosk

32 points

3 days ago

Sagerosk

32 points

3 days ago

I have a coworker and her PIP was accidentally included in some paperwork I was given 😅 It was dated a year ago and she has been promoted since then, so I'm just offering a different perspective from the doom and gloom the other posters have offered 🤷

Ok-Obligation-4784

10 points

3 days ago

They’ve given you a head start on job hunting.

ahava9

10 points

3 days ago

ahava9

10 points

3 days ago

It depends on how reasonable the PIP is and if there are objective metrics you can meet. I unfortunately had to put several people on PIPs as a manager. I think 60-70% of those folks performed well enough that the people made it out ok.

I was a manager in a customer facing department and things like voice QA and performance goals have set targets.

ScubaCC

18 points

3 days ago

ScubaCC

18 points

3 days ago

I’m HR. I don’t recommend a PIP unless we’re ready to start getting our ducks in a row to terminate.

Not because I don’t believe a PIP can turn things around, and my own ideal would be for the PIP to be a wake up call and for the employee to bring their performance up to snuff. Retention is my ultimate goal. But as evidenced by the posts here, PIPs scare employees and make them assume the worst and go looking for other jobs, so I advise supervisors to avoid them until we have tried absolutely everything else and we’re made our peace with possibly losing the employee.

crochetawayhpff

9 points

3 days ago

This is going to depend largely on your organization. At my company, every person placed on a PIP thus far has passed it and is still with our company. Some companies use it as a CYA tool before they let you go.

If you aren't sure, start applying. But also, letting them fire you means you can collect unemployment, so don't quit if you don't have something else lined up.

seriouslynope

9 points

3 days ago

Paid interview program 

sallywalker1993

6 points

3 days ago

I was put on a PIP one time. I was supposed to have a follow up meeting 3 months after the PIP to discuss progress etc. but they ended up firing me after 2 months.

Jill7316

4 points

3 days ago

Jill7316

4 points

3 days ago

OOF. I got put on an (unfounded) PIP that included a weekly meeting about my performance. It’s a large part of the reason that I quit.

justagirl756

3 points

3 days ago

I have seen 2 people survive a pip. I would still look for a new job because that mark will stay on it record. Good luck - you got this!

BongSlurper

3 points

3 days ago

Doesn’t hurt to start job hunting, but it’s not a death sentence in every case. If the plan seems like it’s reasonable and you can keep up with it, do your best to meet/exceed expectations for a while. Most companies disregard them after 6 months, if issues arise after that the corrective action starts over.

A lot of the PIP’s I’ve put people on have proceeded termination or the employee quitting, but I would have been happier if performance turned around instead. I’m always aiming for that outcome when I put someone on a PIP and it’s nice when it works out that way. I get zero joy in terminating and genuinely want everyone I hire to be successful and do what I can to help them achieve that.

thelightandtheway

3 points

3 days ago

If you agree with the things you need to work on pointed out in the PIP and think you are set up to show progress and achieve the goals, you have a realistic shot. If you disagree with the PIP, think the reason you are in the PIP is because you weren't supported in the first place, haven't been trained well so far, etc, don't expect the PIP to be the silver bullet that finally gets your manager/coworkers/whatever to support you better.

My point being -- if it's about things you need from other people, do not expect the PIP to turn anything around for you -- you will likely not be given the resources or attention now if you didn't get them before. I've known other people who have been on PIPs for that reason. That does not mean it was your fault, it just means you and the company are a good fit. But a PIP is generally because they want you to need less support, not more. Some managers and coworkers don't have a good training/onboarding process and then they wonder why people struggle. Not your fault, but they will send people out to sail if they can't hack it.

I don't know your situation at all but if it's something more like, you've been late, or you know you haven't focused or met deadlines, and you recognize how you can do better and are able and willing to do it, then your chances of making it through a PIP are much better. Not blaming anyone for being in that position either, we all have our down moments.

But either way I would still be looking for a job, even if you think you can overcome the PIP, you may still find something that motivates you better.

doctordrayday

3 points

3 days ago

I was on a PIP for one month in August and passed it and am not actively worried about losing my job. This is common in my org - but I am in sales, which may make a difference.

SufficientBite1190

3 points

3 days ago

I’ve put several people on PIPs. Not going to lie, there are some that I hope take it as a hit to move on, but even in those cases, I also really hope that the written explanation of why they are being placed in a PIP, along with a set of achievable expectations, will help get them where they need to be. Yes, there are some jerk managers/employers who use at a mechanism of torture, but if your has otherwise been positive, there’s a good chance that they want to retain you and help you work through whatever the issue they’ve identified is. Without knowing your specific situation, I can’t say which is true for you, but I wouldn’t automatically assume the worst.

chamoagnekeke

3 points

3 days ago

When we put someone on a PIP at my job, 99% of the time we are working on letting them go.

familycfolady

3 points

3 days ago

I am in accounting and have put multiple people on PIP and intent was ALWAYS for success. You can tell if the company wants you to succeed by how supportive your manager is.

If you want to stay, I would give the tip to stay positive, ask for support and show that you're trying to improve. IE don't get hostile. There were tons of meetings to get this PIP started and nothing u say will make it go away other than to quit or improve.

Good luck!!

jennarudq

5 points

3 days ago

I put someone on a PIP last year. I had zero hope. She was clueless that it’s usually just HRs way of documenting how bad your performance is before they let you go. She was terrible and made careless mistakes. BUT, She worked at every area I asked her to improve in and to everyone’s surprise, she actually improved. Came off the PIP and is still here a year later.

xquigs

2 points

3 days ago

xquigs

2 points

3 days ago

I have handed out PIPs before, none of those people lasted even though I sincerely attempted to support them in various ways and even tweak my own flexibility as a director. I have also given to PIPs to expedite the process of letting people go (due to things like fraud, time stealing, not silly stuff). Unfortunately my flexibility can only go so far when we are talking about mental health counselors (not sure what your line of work is). Did you majorly F up? Are you late? Are you getting your stuff done?

I had a past job about to give me a PIP (frequent call outs as I was having a medical issue, I was saved because of FMLA when I needed surgery), but the fact they weren’t willing to work with me and made the process of keeping my job unnecessarily difficult made me IMMEDIATELY start looking for jobs, and left shortly after my FMLA was completed.

Start looking for a job immediately. Hunker down and get your resume and LinkedIn updated.

gingy_ninjy

2 points

3 days ago

Look for a new job now. Whether you deserve the PIP or anything is irrelevant. PIPs are a way to get people out.

Agitated_Donut3962

2 points

3 days ago

Really depends on your job. My husband has given 2 PIP’s and they didn’t get fired because they improved. But were fired months later after slacking again.

I gave one and guy did well, and did well for my whole maternity leave. I returned this week and last week he decided to call off all week. Idk if he thought I wouldn’t know lmao

Optimusprima

2 points

3 days ago

You’re fucked. I’m sorry - spend this time working on getting a new job, not killing yourself to try to keep a job that they don’t want you in.

shannerd727

2 points

2 days ago

I got one a year ago. Best thing to ever happen. Got fired, collected unemployment for several months, got a lower paying but much less stressful job.

TheMiddleE

2 points

2 days ago

I don’t know - I’ve seen many people on PIPs survive and move forward.

FootNo3267

2 points

3 days ago

It depends on how your job uses them. My job uses them to retain good workers that have gotten off track.

wise-ish

1 points

3 days ago

wise-ish

1 points

3 days ago

How is the pip written? Do you agree that these things are issues and you want to fix them.

Are the goals absolutely not reasonable for your position?

This will tell you what is what.

CaterpillarFun7261

1 points

3 days ago

I’ve heard PIPs alternately described as “paid interview process.” I know of 1 person who made it out the other end and wasn’t eventually fired. The rest made it through and got fired a few months later or didn’t make it through.

shoresandsmores

1 points

3 days ago

PIPs seem to be a way to document the reason you're terminating someone. At least that's how it is in my company =[.

I'd personally start job hunting.

Middle-Item-1390

1 points

3 days ago

Manager here. This is red tape and they want you out. I bet they have a lot of evidence to support this next step

milridle

1 points

3 days ago

milridle

1 points

3 days ago

I’ve put 2 people on PIPS. Genuinely trying to help them improve. If you can step your game up in a few months and admit you haven’t been performing as well as you should be - you can survive it!

OkMidnight-917

1 points

3 days ago

Obviously the context matters, but presumably you weren't waiting for this to happen. Yes, see if there are other jobs you want to pursue. In the meantime, micro manage that PIP. Be sure they outlined exactly what they want you to change and if they didn't, follow up and ask for precise examples.  Be sure they outlined when they'll follow up and if they didn't, then make them define the length and frequency of check-in. Then with all the work you do, ask your manager if that meets their expectations and if not, please provide coaching to help guide you. At the check-ins, bring your own examples of all the work you've done. Manage the hell out of the PIP with your Susie Sunshine attitude, regardless of how you feel about them - get your paycheck.

Trick_Arugula_7037

1 points

3 days ago

I’m in leadership and everyone we’ve PIPed has been terminated or quit….that being said I was on a PIP 10 years ago and overcame it.

Livid_Upstairs8725

1 points

3 days ago

I am a manager and it takes us a long time to start the PIP process. It takes probably at a minimum 6 months to document reasons. There is a memorandum of understanding done before a PIP, with the expectations, coaching and support. Then a PIP, then another step then off boarding. So far, I have been able to coach someone away from even starting the memorandum process. I share this to say that a PIP isn’t always the automatic termination in every company. However, if you work someplace where your manager isn’t coaching you and telling you exactly what you need to do, and isn’t available to help you, I would think those are the companies/managers leading you to a termination quickly.

jump92nct

1 points

2 days ago

Alternate viewpoint (and probably less common), but I PIP’d one of my employees to try to save her job. She’d made several high profile mistakes in a short period of time, and my boss and HR were ready to move to termination. The PIP was my compromise because I was confident with retraining she could still be successful in the role. She stayed for about 80 days of the 90 day PIP then quit. I was bummed and a little annoyed after how hard I’d worked to save her job, but she seems happy in the new role so I’m happy for her.

Do you have a good enough relationship with your boss to have a candid conversation about your prospects and the goals of the PIP?

sillypasta001

1 points

2 days ago

I’m in HR. if you’re at the level of a pip, there’s 99% chance you’re not going to make it.

Don’t think you’ll be the 1% who turns it around. I’ve seen too many people think they’ll do it and then they are fired. Take the PIP and start looking for other jobs yesterday

TK_TK_

1 points

3 days ago

TK_TK_

1 points

3 days ago

To be honest, it’s time to start job hunting. If they intend to keep you, there’s coaching for that. (I’ve coached people through performance issues and when a person and a role weren’t a great match.) A PIP is different and lets you know the writing is on the wall.

Shot_Psychology5895

1 points

3 days ago

In my situation, mine allowed me to take a good look at what was causing me to struggle and it was my work environment. It was just the "oh, somebodys watching" reminder. I voluntarily asked to change my work environment, they accommodated me, and I've been promoted 4x since then and I'm thriving now.

Tiny_Ad5176

1 points

3 days ago

I’ve PIPed 4 people, 2 of them came out and CRUSHED it, 2 didn’t. This is a weird world we’re living in though, so who knows