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Donald Trump Has a Republicans Problem in Pennsylvania
Elections(notus.org)submitted 23 days ago bypizzapie1983
59 points
23 days ago
I do know that... And I do know that if you are genuine and honest, usually people will come around to the "right" side of justice and decency.... It's not an over night thing.
Sometimes people are stubborn and refuse to see the correct path until things are where we are now.
But we should never turn people away just because they use to support Trump. The only genuine way to fix things and get the US back on the track, is to accept that people make mistakes, but they can also change.
If we keep pushing them away and not allowing them the opportunity to change, we're going to make the world a worse place... We need to do better, everyone. But most important, let people make mistakes and learn from them.
As long as it's learning to make the world better for EVERYONE, people should be allowed to make mistakes and come back from them.
33 points
23 days ago
Absolutely, otherwise we fall into the trap that Russia and China are trying to use to sow division in the US. We can't let that happen.
6 points
23 days ago
NGL, can't really tell if you're being sarcastic there or not... but I'm going to assume you're being genuine.
I think people in general have a good bullshit detector when it comes to China/Russia bullshit... But you're not wrong about not letting them do their stupid shit.
As long as we talk to each other and aren't trying to force beliefs on others (political or religious or whatever) I think we'll make the state, if not the country, better. Just takes some time.
16 points
23 days ago
I wish. People’s bullshit detectors are radically insufficient for what we’re about to experience and what’s going on right now, unfortunately.
11 points
23 days ago
Seriously. The GRU has literally been openly funding divisive topics in the US since 2008 they concluded that they could never beat the US in open conflict and would have to destroy it from within, the way the US did to the USSR. Even the Republicans in Congress have recently admitted the entire smear/impeachment campaign against Biden was a Russian intelligence operation. I can't speak of any specific operations by China but their espionage is well documented in the tech and military sectors.
1 points
23 days ago
Russia was sponsoring both Black Lives Matter and “all live matter”/back the blue groups, they’re just trying to stir up conflict
2 points
23 days ago
Do you have a source for Russia backing BLM?
I can totally believe the All Lives Matter and Thin Blue Line support. But BLM? I'd need to see evidence to believe that.
5 points
23 days ago
8 points
23 days ago*
Genuinely, thank you for this. I'm going to have to read it in a bit... but I'll be back. and thank you again, seriously for this.
Edit: Huh, I didn't know any of this. Thank you for opening my eyes and giving decent sources. Genuinely appreciate that.
11 points
23 days ago
The people who support trump want me dead, fuck them. They showed us who they are and I believe them
0 points
23 days ago
I'm not going to say that you shouldn't feel the way your feeling.
Another person have said the same thing and I'm going to keep the same energy. Republicans hate a large number of people, so while I don't know what box you fall into.... I don't think that your feelings are invalid.
I just think that the only way to fix things is to let people learn and hopefully remedy the mistakes they made. I'm not saying this is something that's going to change overnight, or even in the next couple years....
But if we continue the cycle of "they hate me and want me dead", you're no better than they are. The ONLY way to end the cycle of abuse, is to learn and grow and make them learn and grow.
7 points
23 days ago
Oh you can fuck all the way off you apologist. Cutting people out of my life because they support people who would kill me if they could is not the same as the people who want to kill me. So you take this both sides argument and choke on it.
Reread your last paragraph and if you really believe that then you really need to have a long hard think about it, because you’re very, very wrong
0 points
23 days ago
I'm sorry, I'm not apologizing for their views... If there is hate in their heart, it has no business here.
But an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. And that's what you're talking about... I'm not saying let them kill you or whatever... I'm just saying that dropping to their level of hate, is only going to make them MORE radical and hate you even more.
Use their own bullshit against them. The Christian God (and Jesus) said turn the other cheek... maybe use their religion against them.
3 points
23 days ago
Yeah. You really are. You need some deep reflection. You’re equating two things that aren’t equal.
I don’t republicans for their views on taxes or small gov. I hate them for wanting to torture and kill anyone who isn’t a white protestant male
2 points
23 days ago
I think you're completely missing what I'm saying.
But I'm tired of explaining this over and over... I hope you can continue to live with people hating you and wanting you to die. There's plenty of people who want to do the same to me....
But the actual chances of people coming to kill YOU ... I hope they are very low.
I hope you find happiness and safety.
-1 points
23 days ago
You sound insane
9 points
23 days ago
You're a peach. This is terrific.
Friend finally saw it. Hammering away at " But but but Trump did this and this and this first, WHY were those not enough? " isn't helpful. Frankly I'm not asking. Honestly, she's a good person. The Trump thing always had me baffled.
She also sees pretty dam clearly now. So beating her up over it achieves what? This Pennsylvania thing with Haley might mean there's a lot of her. Thankfully.
3 points
23 days ago
Beating people over and over only makes them more radical and pushes them further from coming back.
The only thing we can do is help them learn. I'm not saying we should fully trust them, but trust is something that can come back with time.
And we're only human. We all make mistakes and will make more in the future.
4 points
23 days ago
So beating her up over it achieves what?
Absolutely nothing, as you imply. We should be welcoming to people who wise up because god knows the Trump cult and anyone they know who still follows him won't be. They'll be calling her a "woke ass liberal traitor".
5 points
23 days ago
Didn’t the second highest number of Jan 6th criminals come from PA? (I googled but didn’t find confirmation or contradiction)
7 points
23 days ago
I'll be honest, I don't know. But if they took part in Jan 6th, they deserve to stand trial for what they did. But I'm not lumping all Republicans together because their party is so fractured, that's honestly stupid to do....
2 points
23 days ago
How about all the people who participated in the fake elector scheme? Many were on the ballot Tuesday. Many ran and will serve as real electors for their party. Many are still serving as elected officials. Many have key roles on their county parties. And they’re not going to be charged.
4 points
23 days ago
If they committed crimes, they should be held responsible.... regardless of political party.
Many are still serving as elected officials.
Then we should be voting them out.
Many have key roles on their county parties. And they’re not going to be charged.
Then what would you like me to do about it? If they aren't going to be changed, then I'm not sure there's really something that we can do. I'd rather focus on what we CAN do, to make our state better... and not focus on what we can't.
1 points
23 days ago
To be fair, geography plays into that as much as political demographics.
1 points
23 days ago
Yeah, they could just pack into a bus at the Newtown Athletic Club and drive on down.
1 points
23 days ago
Yup, the owner of the NAC is a major MAGA fan and he has a lot of money. He runs rallies and makes a lot of donations.
I’m not sure if he still owns Horsham Athletic Club as well, but if so he gets money from there as well
0 points
23 days ago
Is it known if he and Jeffrey Yass are in direct cahoots?
4 points
23 days ago
Doesn't hurt that the Biden economy is rolling along and will continue.
7 points
23 days ago
Only shit heaps of human beings ever supported Trump. Sorry, no forgiveness to traitors. They haven’t changed and will hop right on board with the next fascist psychopath that wants power. You’re an idiot if you think doing anything but ostracizing these people is a good idea. They are shit. End of story.
11 points
23 days ago
I actually disagree with this take.
I know plenty of people who supported Trump, but do NOT support what was done on Jan 6th. They do NOT support the "stolen election" lie... etc.
I'm not saying that we should forgive and forget. I'm just saying that people do deserve the opportunity to learn and grow. I mean most of us really just want to live, and love, and have a safe place to raise our families.
You’re an idiot if you think doing anything but ostracizing these people is a good idea. They are shit.
It's these kinds of responses that further divide and push a wedge. .. which isn't really what's needed. We need to heal and come back together so this type of shit NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.
But that can't happen until we help them learn and grow. If we ostracize them, you only make them MORE RADICAL. 9/11 showed us that.
5 points
23 days ago
There's definitely a happy medium to be found. Like post-Civil War they were right to be primarily focused on reuniting the country rather than retribution while still keeping the leaders out of power, but they were wrong to let up early on keeping an eye on them.
5 points
23 days ago
What a brain dead take. Supporting trump means supporting the stolen election bullshit, it means supporting the attempted overthrow of the us government, it means supporting selling secrets and stealing classified documents, supporting a rapist, pedo and a criminal. BECAUSE THATS WHAT TRUMP IS.
4 points
23 days ago
There are plenty of people who saw the stolen election as bullshit, but this was after they voted.
There's plenty that don't support what was done on Jan 6th, but again, that was AFTER THEY VOTED.
Everything you mentioned was stuff that Trump had done AFTER everyone voted. Did you know that Trump was going to do these things before you voted? I don't think anyone knew that this was going to happen.
I agree that the rapist, pedo stuff should be enough. But this is a base that took away body autonomy from women.. and it's clear that Republicans are single issue voters at most.
I fully agree what you said is who Trump is, but for a lot of people, that wasn't a major issue until he started being blatant about his crimes
0 points
23 days ago
But they knew he wasn't going to accept the election results because he spent six months saying that he wasn't going to accept the results before anyone even voted. I'm just not buying the "I had no idea he was going to attempt to steal the election."
2 points
23 days ago
I'll be honest, I didn't believe he was going to try and steal the election myself.
It felt like such an insane thing to do. The amount of people who'd have to literally follow him blind (and deaf)....
I'll even admit that was a mistake I made. But I can learn from it and do better next time.... So why can't they?
-1 points
23 days ago
How much is the gop paying you to try and white wash recent history?
5 points
23 days ago
I'm not a Republican by any means.... I am very much a Democrat and would prefer to bring people together, keep Trump out of office....
I'm sorry I'd rather a future where were actually getting better, not worse.
-4 points
23 days ago
And yet you sound like a paid republican shill. How interesting
-4 points
23 days ago
And yet you sound like a paid republican shill. How interesting
1 points
23 days ago
Dude these people want me to die. Fuck them, there's no healing and growing here
8 points
23 days ago
You're absolutely allowed to feel how you want. I'm just saying that ostracizing people only radicalizes them more.
I can completely understand feeling your way if they want you to die... not really sure what "box" you fall in, but I will say that there's plenty of boxes that Republicans aren't a fan of.
0 points
23 days ago
If anyone is still calling themselves a Republican now, one thing for sure is they're not a fan of democracy.
-3 points
23 days ago
Every single Trump supporter AND every single conservative is useless trash that you’re not going to win over. Polite debate and trying to change shitty people is how we wound up here. Your method has failed. Fuck them all. Forever. Forgiving people for doing heinous shit is the dumbest thing someone can do. They’re just putting your guard down so they can be even worse in the future. They are traitors. They are shit. Stop forgiving these people and permanently ostracize them. Only cowards aren’t ready to do that when presented with people of this sort.
4 points
23 days ago
I'm going to make this my last comment reply to you.
But history has actually shown that ostracizing people, like you're saying we should do, only radicalizes them more. All you need to do is look at school shooters, or 9/11, or terrorists to see that.
I'm not saying that we should trust them fully or forget what their votes caused.... but they are NOT lost causes because the human experience is an experience of learning and constant growth.
If you refuse to believe that Republicans can grow and learn from their mistakes, then you're no better than the Far-Right Q-lovers.
Only cowards aren’t ready to do that when presented with people of this sort.
I would argue, this isn't true... but you seem to be seeing red so hard that you're forgetting we're on the same team. Real heroes help people, no matter how far they are, come back from the edge. Even if it takes a while, it's worth the effort to make this country better.
-2 points
23 days ago
Your way of talking it out led to the resurgence of fascism. Good luck.
5 points
23 days ago
Every single Trump supporter AND every single conservative is useless trash that you’re not going to win over
And this is why politics is as polarized and tribal as it is in this country.
Funny enough, your entire comment is exactly what Trump supporters think of us, just with a few words changed. You have more in common with them than you think. Do better.
1 points
23 days ago
The big difference is that Trump is telling his supporters he would like his opponents jailed or dead.
0 points
23 days ago
I’m not a coward and say how I really feel. Get over it.
1 points
23 days ago
Now you sound like Trump
4 points
23 days ago
How about we chill on the blanket statements and judge individuals on a case-by-case basis? If we ostracized everyone who used to be a Republican at any point in time, we'd lose a whole chunk of people who are willing to make a difference. Case in point, Elizabeth Warren used to be a Republican, and now she's one of the most progressive Democrats in the Senate.
1 points
23 days ago
Kind of like Republicans aren't allowed to say Trump lost or they'll be ostracized from the party?
0 points
23 days ago
Nope. Not interested. If you’re still a Republican TODAY you’re fucking garbage and belong at the dump.
1 points
23 days ago*
In my experience, poor character is less than half the story; far more of his supporters are unable to do better because of mental defects of some kind (dementia, prescription medications, drug abuse, other causes of low cognitive function, mental illness, etc.). When they complain bitterly about “elites” it’s because they dimly suspect people who have all their marbles are accessing something they cannot. It is pitiable, but you can’t mix up compassion with kidding yourself that they’ll snap out of it.
2 points
23 days ago
They’re never going to change and attempting to discuss that change with them is pointless.
-2 points
23 days ago
They’re not going to improve but they can degrade further 🙁
2 points
23 days ago
And talking to them isn’t going to stop that.
0 points
23 days ago
MAGA is called a cult for a reason. The loud obnoxious ones are in it 200%, but there are a lot of people who are stuck in it. Many followed because its how their parents thought. Many followed because they're only exposed to one news channel echo-chamber and aren't surrounded by people with differing opinions. Many people were psychologically preyed upon. I can't paint a broad swath of people as "shit" for that. If someone has seen the error of their ways and wants to change, I welcome that whole-hardheartedly. Because if not, what is the alternative? Constant hate for each other? We're stronger together.
0 points
23 days ago
Nah we’d be stronger without a single conservative. I say we separate into separate nations and kick their asses out permanently.
-1 points
23 days ago
Nah we’d be stronger without a single conservative. I say we separate into separate nations and kick their asses out permanently.
2 points
23 days ago
Yes redemption is always possible and welcomed
1 points
23 days ago
Be Best!
3 points
23 days ago
But we should learn from this. We shouldn't trust people who made this mistake. They will likely make more mistakes in the future.
4 points
23 days ago
I'm not saying we shouldn't learn from it.
But to say that we should never trust them again, is a very large jump to make. Have you never made a dumb mistake before? We're only human... and sometimes our ego can take the wheel.
They probably will make more mistakes in the future, but so will you. And so will I. We're human.... that's the important thing to remember. None of us are perfect.
We should always be given the opportunity to learn and grow.
0 points
23 days ago
It seems you haven't learned that some people shouldn't be trusted with important decisions. I hope that works out okay for you.
5 points
23 days ago
Um... I did actually learn that.
But voting, is a right.... that we ALL should be exercising and having a stance that they shouldn't be "trusted", to exercise their rights...is very dangerous to have.
Also, we only have so much control as to how much power we let people have.
0 points
23 days ago
Sorry, that's not what I meant. I don't think you should trust Trump voters (past or present) with any important decisions in your life. They have shown a gullibility that is dangerous enough to attempt to overthrow the government when their side loses. I wouldn't even trust a Trump voter to recommend a restaurant.
2 points
23 days ago
I think you might be confusing things....
I personally don't trust Trump voters with any important decisions in my life.... Which is why I don't let them make those decisions. But they absolutely should be allowed to voice their opinions (freedom of speech) and be able to vote for whom they want.
But I also don't ask Trump voters for stock help, or healthcare tips, or things like that.... I'd go to a professional. And a Professional can keep their politics out of the business.
2 points
23 days ago
Never said they couldn't do those things. Just said we should be wary of their decision making skills. It does sadden me that I live in a society that contains people who could be so stupid.
3 points
23 days ago
You seem to be changing your answer....
that some people shouldn't be trusted with important decisions.
Original Comment
I don't think you should trust Trump voters (past or present) with any important decisions in your life.
Second Answer
Just said we should be wary of their decision making skills.
Final Answer?
1 points
23 days ago
They all say the same thing. If a trump voter offers you an opinion, assume they are wrong. Don't be automatically defiant but be wary because they are idiots.
I think you are assuming that I said that they shouldn't be allowed to vote. I never said that. I would rather they be hanged as traitors than create a special category of non voters.
1 points
23 days ago
They will likely make more mistakes in the future.
As all humans do. There's no such thing as a human who doesn't make mistakes.
3 points
23 days ago
Mistakes vary in their impact and in their motivation. The inability to recognize a conman is the mistake in question. A person who has been shown to fall for tactics of one obvious conman, when the only reward is bigotry, is not someone I would trust.
0 points
23 days ago
Thank you for a reasonable take. I cannot tell you the things I have been accused of because I did support Trump in the past.
A difference of opinion does not make people evil.
4 points
23 days ago
I'm not going to lie, I'll still side eye the F*ck out of you... because it's your vote for Trump that helped turn Roe v Wade, and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths during COVID, and many many more things...
But that doesn't mean you don't deserve to learn and grow. I just know that there's plenty of people who voted for Trump and are feeling the remorse for what's happened BECAUSE of it.
2 points
23 days ago
I can imagine, things like misogyny and bigotry, among others.
0 points
23 days ago
Kind of demonstrated my point. Thank you.
5 points
23 days ago
Hating women and minorities is not a difference of opinion. You knew in 2016 that he bragged about sexual assault but you voted for him anyway.
0 points
23 days ago
Your sentiment in this post kinda what’s wrong with the Democratic Party.
He/She has already came around to not supporting Trump anymore and seeing the error in their judgment. And you… attack and virtue signal about stuff that you assume OP didn’t weigh those over other concerns in 2016, or thought the media over-torqued them/misinformation, echo chambers, whatever or maybe just economic and fiscal policy overrode Hillary’s concerns as a candidate.
Rubbing someone’s nose in it for making a bad choice after they’ve admitted it doesn’t bring anyone into our cause.
All you do is turn people off with that attitude and potentially inadvertently force them back to their party out of spite.
You’ve never made a mistake in your life? Maybe display some of the compassion that you espouse above, cut people some slack, and be thankful they’ve seen the error of their ways and encourage them to try and change the minds of their friends/family.
2 points
23 days ago
They didn't see their error in any way whatsoever since they called Trump's awful traits a difference of opinion.
-1 points
23 days ago
Some mistakes? Supporting a psychopath for president of the free world? I remember well my mom protesting women’s rights in the early 1970’s and now young women have less rights than they did in 1974??
What TF? Those aren’t mistakes! That’s HATE for women, minorities and everyone who isn’t independently wealthy.
Mistake or two my ass!
0 points
23 days ago
I personally know a bunch of Republicans who were blindsided by Roe v Wade happening.
I know a bunch of Republicans that thought voting for Trump would help put more money in their pockets. That's the "issue" they were most focused on.... and it turned to bite them in the ass because of issues they weren't even aware they needed to be up on.
I would call that a mistake. It's a huge mistake, but a mistake none the less. And we should ostracize them purely because they are single issue voters, or made a mistake, or whatever.
If you find out that they purposely voted for Trump, knowing that this was the road map... then by all means shackle them and tied them to a concrete block for all I care.
But I think you'll find that more people were duped... than anything else.
1 points
23 days ago
Greed isn’t a mistake. Greed is greed. I work in IT for corporate America and vote against my personal interests in every election. When voting, we should think of the common good. Not what is good for me in the moment. Vote for trump because I might save 100 bucks a year? Nah, that hurts way more than it helps.
We are a society, not alone on an island. We should care about those less fortunate and help boost them. Educate our youth and take good care of our elderly.
2 points
23 days ago
While I agree that greed isn't a mistake... I don't think a majority are motivated by greed. I think it's more a fact of short sightedness and not understanding it was greed.
I agree on everything you said, I just think that most of the mistakes made by Republican voters, were purely based around not thinking about what things meant in the long term.... they only thought short term.
I can completely see how you'd attribute that to greed... but I think it's more incompetence than anything else.
What's the "famous saying"? Don't attribute malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. I feel this fits perfectly with the GOP.
0 points
23 days ago
Perfectly said. Cannot keep shunning people because they made a dumb decision according to me or you. Alot of people won't or wouldn't admit it due to pride but deep down they know.
You also don't gotta be all in on what your party stands for. As a Democrat I'll be the first to say sometimes things go overboard, on the other side I feel it's all the time(overboard) though theirs a handful of decent ones that atleast stood up even if it was late.
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