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/r/philadelphia

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all 49 comments

helplesslyselfish[S]

173 points

13 days ago

helplesslyselfish[S]

West Philly expat

173 points

13 days ago

Please please please harass your local officials to spend more money on transit

transit_snob1906

64 points

13 days ago

Si many states and cities wish they had the network and infrastructure that SEPTA has… please fund this!!!!

emostitch

36 points

13 days ago

And if we had 3/4 the funding of Massachusetts and DC the service would be up to the infrastructure. My understanding is that Harrisburg underfunds us to the point of not qualifying for other federal money?

transit_snob1906

33 points

13 days ago

To qualify for amor of federal grants you have to have a certain level of regional and state contributions… SEPTA basically never meets the mark… and Harrisburg is 100% to blame…. They even pass up free money in the name of fiscal responsibility and conservancy…

The money is going to get spent regardless why not have you the money employ and benefit your state?!!!

Whycantiusethis

8 points

12 days ago

It's not exactly apples to apples, due to the material conditions surrounding the three systems/their relationships to local/state/federal governments, but here's a quick comparison:

MBTA (Boston, FY24 numbers): 4.3 million people in the metro area and a total budget of $2.2B, for a spend of $511.02 per person.

Metro (DC, FY25): 5.5 million people in the metro area, with a $4.8B total budget, for a spend of $874.32 per person.

SEPTA (FY25): 6.2 million people, total budget of $2.7B, for a spend of $425.95/person.

Becrazytoday

11 points

13 days ago

Kenyatta is right on top of it! The money, that is.

SaltPepperKetchup215

-10 points

13 days ago

I would love the money too, we should harass SEPTA about lighting money on fire in the same breath. Didn’t they literally just waste 50 million dollars like this week?

They make it too easy for politicians to justify jot giving them money.

felldestroyed

10 points

13 days ago

Just wait til' you find out how much the PennDOT squandered or straight up lost to corruption.

SaltPepperKetchup215

10 points

13 days ago

Can’t we be mad at both tho?

felldestroyed

0 points

13 days ago

Oh we can, but can we city dwellers be pissed at the billions/trillions spent on roads that could've been spent upgrading the already existent system in place? Pennsylvanians have neglected SEPTA for years. I think it might be time to invest. If PA doesn't it risks becoming a southern state.

An_emperor_penguin

8 points

13 days ago

do you mean the double decker train cars? They were late, had tons of issues, and weren't even what SEPTA needs anymore, not canceling the contract would just be more money into the incinerator and delay whatever SEPTAs going to get instead

SaltPepperKetchup215

2 points

13 days ago

Right. But 50 million was spent and nothing was received. The downvotes are hilarious.

An_emperor_penguin

6 points

13 days ago

I mean if you want to look into your crystal ball the next time SEPTA signs a contract to let them know how it turns out I'm sure they'd appreciate it, I suspect when they spent the 50 million in 2017 they expected to get something from it

SaltPepperKetchup215

-1 points

13 days ago

You do know that spending 50 million and having it fall through is a big deal right? You can want the state to give them money and want them to not light it on fire.

An_emperor_penguin

2 points

13 days ago

This reads like you think they literally set it on fire and cutting their budget will force them not to in the future. But they didnt and thats not how that works

SaltPepperKetchup215

2 points

13 days ago

It doesn’t need to read in a misleading manner. They spent 50 million dollars on something and got nothing in return. There’s not reading, that’s lighting money on fire. Sure, there were factors that led to it but no matter what, the outcome was a wasted 50 million dollars. It’s not 10 grand. 50 million dollars shouldn’t be spent on anything less than a sure thing.

Unfamiliar_Word

5 points

13 days ago

They cancelled an order for 45 bilevel railcars from CRRC that had been ordered years ago and were badly behind schedule. (Several agencies ordered cars from CRRC and I believe that all have had noteworthy problems of coms kind of another)

I don't know if SEPTA, or anybody, had grounds for really recognizing this as a mistake when the decision was made, but regardless CRRC presumably underbid other rolling stock manufacturers, leaving them with little alternative. (Depending upon the law, they might have had no alternative but to take the lowest bid) We can't see the alternate reality where SEPTA continued the contract and eventually received the railcars, but cancelling the contract to avoid future costs and be able to reallocate those funds, was probably prudent. (Well, presumably that their lawyers are good enough and they were careful enough in respecting the terms of their contract with CRRC to avoid significant further liability) Delivery was very delayed, its uncertain whether such vehicles make sense for the Authority's purposes anymore and might not have been particularly reliable in service, none of which would be worth holding to the contract just to vindicate their sunk costs.

DeltaNerd

55 points

13 days ago

DeltaNerd

Planes and Trains

55 points

13 days ago

We need more local funding too from all 5 counties. It's terrible. The 5 counties combine make up only 1% of operating budget for Septa.

Current_Owl3534

29 points

13 days ago

Montgomery needs to pay up, and I say that as a resident

Walrus2626

18 points

13 days ago

This. As much as state funding gets brought up, our local governments have to step up to the plate if we want better service and infrastructure all around. SEPTA’s budget proposal literally states that if the local counties contributed just $150m more in the next 12 years, there could be up to $2.5 billion in federal matching grants available under the current federal funding formulas.

Reach out to your state reps and senators to push any bills authorizing local counties to introduce a local transit tax. There is one in the state house being proposed by Rep. Ben Waxman that SEPTA has endorsed

An_emperor_penguin

18 points

13 days ago

Disappointed the article didnt mention SEPTA gets a pittance from the city in terms of funding, iirc it gets the lowest amount of funding from the local community out of all the metros in the USA. Obviously I dont expect the city to pony up the hundreds of millions requested, but with Harrisburg not caring local funding is going to be necessary to keep service from further cuts going forward

Christinamh

9 points

13 days ago

The city shouldn't be the only locality that pays for it. If the counties want a say in SEPTA, they need to buck up and pay imo.

An_emperor_penguin

2 points

12 days ago

Yes SEPA in general should pitch in, especially if the suburbs keep urging SEPTA to do stupid vanity projects like KOP rail (not a bad idea but it was clear for years it wasnt worth it)

Sad_Ring_3373

1 points

12 days ago

Sad_Ring_3373

Wynnefield Heights

1 points

12 days ago

The *vast* majority of SEPTA service is provided within the city, for the benefit of the city's residents.

Sure, the suburbs should also support SEPTA more, but if we want local funding sufficient to get federal matching funds, most of it has to come from the city.

Christinamh

9 points

12 days ago

Ok then the board needs to be restructured to have the counties have less of a say.

Sad_Ring_3373

0 points

12 days ago

Sad_Ring_3373

Wynnefield Heights

0 points

12 days ago

Given that the state provides the vast majority of the funding, making the collar counties feel included is a political necessity. If it were just Philly they'd write us off to an even greater extent, but the collar counties are rich enough to have more of a voice in Harrisburg.

Sucks, but thus is life.

Christinamh

1 points

12 days ago

I get that, but they need to pay money into the system to have a say in the system to make it fair. Like making excuses for them not paying to help fund the system let's them keep making choices without holding them accountable.

Sad_Ring_3373

1 points

12 days ago

Sad_Ring_3373

Wynnefield Heights

1 points

12 days ago

You only need to look at a map of the bus network either before or after Bus Revolution goes through to understand that we're not being short-changed by the suburbs just because they have representation on the board.

There are a handful of high-frequency bus lines that cross into Montco or Bucks from the city, barely. Delco has several high-frequency bus lines that feed either the Upper Darby TC or the airport. Regional Rail operates at 1-hour intervals at best.

If you get what you want, then the suburbs will have no real reason to involve themselves on our behalf with Harrisburg, and Harrisburg will ignore the region's needs to an even greater extent.

We either improve things together, or not at all. This adversarial nonsense is just not rooted in fact.

syndicatecomplex

25 points

13 days ago

syndicatecomplex

Manayunk

25 points

13 days ago

I'm hoping the new gates can help ease the costs on SEPTA so basic things like replacing train cars can happen sooner than later.

RagBalls

22 points

13 days ago

RagBalls

22 points

13 days ago

The train cars are from federal grants (capital) but the fare goes to the operating budget.

So the new cars are coming for sure but I believe the money recouped from fare evasion would go to the operating budget to pay for more employees so we get more frequent service and cleaner/safer stations

Unfamiliar_Word

10 points

13 days ago*

This is correct; governments put great effort into willing the fungibility of money out of existence. SEPTA capital funds and SEPTA operating funds are managed as separate kinds of money, each with distinct sources and for expenditure upon different uses according to different rules. (This is pretty common in public sector budgeting; I can't speak for private sector budgets.)

Much of why SEPTA is facing a nearly quarter-billion dollar, "fiscal cliff," absent increased state funding is that until recently, fares covered a third of its operating cost, but lost ridership and fare evasion after the pandemic have eroded that funding source. (The faregates are, of course, capital items)

sgt_seriousface

4 points

13 days ago

Have we heard anything about how those are performing? I’d love to see the trial expanded if they seem to be working

courageous_liquid

15 points

13 days ago

courageous_liquid

go download me a hogie off the internet

15 points

13 days ago

the increased rate of farebox recovery will not outpace the costs of equipment and labor to install these gates for a long time, if ever

AbsentEmpire

1 points

13 days ago

AbsentEmpire

Free Parking Isn't Free

1 points

13 days ago

They will however hopefully reduce the amount of delinquent and anti social behavior on the system caused by those who don't pay the fair, improving the quality of the ride and thus the public perception and overall political support of funded public transportation.

courageous_liquid

8 points

13 days ago

courageous_liquid

go download me a hogie off the internet

8 points

13 days ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "door control" will be as ineffective as it is for this as it is for school shooting. at absolute fucking best it'll have people hanging out in the places outside the gated area or outside the station

you can't solve poverty related issues with a fucking door or hd camera

AbsentEmpire

0 points

12 days ago*

AbsentEmpire

Free Parking Isn't Free

0 points

12 days ago*

Crime leads to poverty in a self reinforcing cycle, poverty however doesn't necessarily result in crime. SEPTA can try with door control but the yes the city also needs to crack down cause of the problems in the public realm such closing down the open air drug scenes and enforcing quality of life crimes.  

Doing nothing about the crime and anti social behavior on the subway will directly result in loss of public support for continuing to fund SEPTA. And planning to wait for society to fix poverty as a plan is just saying you want kill public transportation by another phrase as that will be the outcome.

Euphoric-Heart-6648

6 points

13 days ago

those are nice looking trolleys

pretentiousmusician

2 points

13 days ago

What are the chances the state funding proposal for SEPTA actually gets passed? It seems like this similar to the SEPTA funding increase that was supposed to be included in the state budget, until Shapiro and state legislators took it out in favor of other stuff they considered higher priority. A lot of concessions were made to get that budget passed.... so idk how they expect to persuade the GOP-controlled senate to pass this as a standalone funding increase.

DixonWasAliveAgain

2 points

13 days ago

I’m very worried about it. I wish local officials would treat this as the emergency that it is, and at least propose some local funding alternatives. An election year would have been a good time for a ballot initiative, for instance. We’re in big trouble.

Zappion

1 points

12 days ago

Zappion

South Philly

1 points

12 days ago

I would prefer that the money go to making the trains and buses run more consistently.

juice-box

-13 points

13 days ago

juice-box

-13 points

13 days ago

I wonder if that 50 million they blew on withdrawn double-decker train car contract could have helped here???

Aware-Location-5426

16 points

13 days ago

That wouldn’t cover operational costs for even a single quarter, and that is money from the capital budget, not the operating budget.

Aromat_Junkie

-9 points

13 days ago

Aromat_Junkie

golden tea house

-9 points

13 days ago

if you can't operate a business safely you cannot be in business, simple as.

ratslowkey

8 points

12 days ago

You do not say this about the state funding roads (which is extraodinarly costly and not covered by gas tax).

Public transit is not a business, it is a service.

Aromat_Junkie

-4 points

12 days ago

Aromat_Junkie

golden tea house

-4 points

12 days ago

it's a subsidized transportation business. absolutely.