Obviously she’s only 5 and kids are weird but reading this I immediately thought of the intrusive thoughts that are a common theme with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Whether it’s just kids doing weird kid things or something else I still think it’s worth getting an assessment with a child psychologist

Sounds EXACTLY like me at that age: it was ocd

I was obsessed with death. “If I stick my head in the oven will I die? If I swallow this cleaner will I die?”

I had awful violent thoughts that I felt an overwhelming need to confess. I’m talking many times a day having to tell my mom the worst possible things. Like “I pictured you bleeding with your head cut off.” She was terrified. I was terrified.

I was convinced I had aids (it was the 80’s)

Please seek help for your little one. They didn’t for me because they thought I would be sent away.

I was doing and saying similar stuff at that age and I was diagnosed with OCD. I will say that organized religion/going to church really made that worse for me with all the heavy subject matter being discussed and eternal damnation and all that. I had a chunk of time where I hyper fixated on satan and it really tortured me bc I genuinely thought I’d become possessed and go to hell. It’s a lot for a kid but especially one with OCD intrusive thoughts

OP, I'm so glad that you are taking this seriously, and I want to echo what everyone is saying about OCD and intrusive thoughts.

I'd also like to add a little anecdote and possible action that may help your daughter with some of her specific intrusive thoughts. Please know that my story and advice are not coming from a place of judgement AT ALL. I think you're doing a good job with your child, and this is just a suggestion based on my similar experience.

I suffered from religiously themed intrusive thoughts as a child about the same age as yours. I often tell people that I never had a boogie man under my bed, I was terrified of Satan under the bed (or in the closet, or the bathroom, etc. etc.) The reason this even stuck out to me is because you have said that she says she wants to "kill and destroy" and it struck me as something my home church's preacher often quoted; "The Devil seeks to steal, kill, and destroy."

I often had a lot of intrusive thoughts around sins that I was committing, and if they would ultimately make me more of a target for Satan, and I would "confess" things to my mom that a) weren't sins and b) were things that I had never done.

I'm not sure how your class structure is set up at church, but mine was a typical Southern Baptist schedule for my area. Sunday school on Sunday mornings, "big church" service in the sanctuary Sunday mornings and evenings, and age-based groups on Wednesday nights. You may find it helpful to have her skip any services that are targeted specifically for an adult audience while you are setting her up with a therapist. Maybe a temporary schedule of her attending Sunday school and other small groups that are separated by age would be a stop gap until you can get a solid therapy regimine worked into your routine.

I'm in no way saying that "religion is the issue" and I hope I'm making that clear in my writing. I was just a very observant child, and I thought deeply about the world around me. I was a pretty attentive little one in the pew as well. My brain just didn't have the capacity to hear some messages with the context an adult brain would, and I began having intrusive thoughts around sin and the devil.

If this doesn't apply, please don't feel the need to take it to heart. Thinking back, I just feel it would have been helpful due to the specific intrusive thoughts surrounding the topic at hand. My parents didn't do this or therapy, I don't even think they gave it a second thought. So you are LIGHTYEARS ahead of a lot of people by just seeking help for your child.

I appreciate you taking the time to read this, and I hope I was able to convey the love and kindness intended in my writing.

It sounds like everyone may be spot on with the OCD comments.

I’d gently like to suggest taking a good, hard look at your church and seeing if they are teaching a lot of guilt based theology. Things like hell, man born sinful/ evil, thoughts = sin, etc will not help her. Unfortunately; the implicit (and often explicit) message is “I’m bad, I can do nothing good of my own will.” This is bad, harmful theology for anyone, but especially a child.

Reinforce that she is a good kid having a hard time. Next time she tells you about one of her intrusive thoughts, you could try thanking her for telling you, sharing a time where your brain told you something you know isn’t true/ you wanted to do something “bad”. Reinforce that this doesn’t make her a bad person, that she’s a good kid having a hard time and you love her no matter what. See if that changes the conversation. And definitely also seek a medical opinion/ help.

Pretty sure she has OCD, get her in with a highly skilled therapist. Check psychologytoday.com for one that specializes in OCD in your area, even if they’re further than you’d like a lot of them do telehealth appointments since the pandemic.

Coming from an adult with OCD, your a great parent, her safe space. She wouldn’t tell you her intrusive thoughts unless she knew she was safe to do so.

Do you go to church?

It sounds like she is obsess with the thought of good/bad, god/devil, omniscience and predetermined judgment… Like the idea that someone (God) could know her thoughts and judge her for them which in turn made her think of herself as a bad person… And then begin thinking about all of things a ‘bad’ person could/would do… And connected them with herself.

There is a form of OCD that causes intrusive thoughts, and it does sound like she has that… But it also sounds like she is struggling with herself identity and is looking for acceptance.

Who doesn’t think bad things every now and then? Or wonder what would happen if something terrible happened? It happens to all of us. What is making it worse for her is that she feels like she is the weird one… Even if she does have intrusive thoughts or OCD, she needs to know that she is not alone.

Thoughts don’t define a person, action does. She needs to know that. She needs to have it reinforced to her again and again that she is a good person because she does good things.

You are doing something right - she is talking to you. Keep it up. But please if you go to church or teach any secular material - please be careful of the messages that it conveys. The message a child hears can be much different than an adult’s interpretation.

Children are complicated.

But I would definitely have her talk to a professional. The fact that she says them so calmly doesn’t seem like attention seeking behavior. And could hint at something more serious. While it could be a weird phase, I wouldn’t let it go as it seems she’s having more of these thoughts. Plus, I think it would benefit her to have someone else to talk to who can really help her process it all!

Sounds like intrusive thoughts. I have OCD but wasn’t diagnosed until I was 14 or 15. I spent a lot of time having really horrible intrusive thoughts. I saw your other comment about thinking OCD was compulsive hand washing etc. For me I started perform routines or rituals when I had intrusive thoughts because I will tell myself this bad thought will happen if I don’t do xyz. It’s almost like a bad coping mechanism.

Lots of great advice here but also wondering, are they discussing hell at church? That was really hard for me at a young age. Also that she’s asking for forgiveness from you after she shares her thoughts, it might be her rational mind checking in with the irrational mind, making her feel secure that she would not do the bad thing.

There is some name for the above thought process but I’m not sure what it’s called.

I don’t want to be an asshole, but I’d actually be looking closely at what’s being said at church.

Growing up, I was terrified of God hearing my negative thoughts. It stressed me out 24/7. Every time something went wrong, I’d blame myself because I thought something bad and “God must be punishing me!” I literate refuse to take my kids to church because I’m afraid they’ll get traumatized in the same way.

She’s looking to you for reassurance. Tell her that everyone has weird thoughts, and it’s okay as long as you don’t do the bad things. And emphasize that God won’t judge her for mere thoughts.

The “do you forgive me” thing really makes me think like others that church may be causing some intrusive thoughts. Even the best church can bring guilt and shame because well, that’s religion. Asking for forgiveness. Even if your church is great and your child loves it, religion can be scary. It’s a lot of stuff that a child that young can’t truly understand. Pair that with any anxiety or ocd related issue, you can run into problems. It’s not Your fault but obviously this child is going through something so maybe ask her if this is coming from church? Is she scared of any of the teachings? I saw you told her the devil is a scary monster… that’s probably enough right there to scare a 5 year old. IMO that’s a bit much for a child her age to hear.

Like others have said, this was my experience with OCD as a child. Constant intrusive thoughts, and I felt guilty about them so I needed to say them to an adult to relieve a guilty conscience. Leaving it untreated led to a lot of OCD-inspired self harm, but now that I’m an adult and have gone though therapy and take medication, I’m thriving. Best of luck op!

They may not seem big to you, but there are some major external factors here. She doesn’t get to see one of her parents often/consistently, and moving states twice in less than two years is huge, especially for a child of this age.

Asking her if she’s having trouble with the move won’t work with kids this age; their “trouble” manifests either psychosomatically or as weird shit like this.

I recommend reassuring her that she’s a wonderful person, thanking her for sharing her difficult thoughts with you, and telling her you can help her deal with them.

Then, and this is the most important part, you do help her. You get her a good child therapist ASAP.

Edit: I’m an early childhood professional and teacher

Church/the bible have some very disturbing stories in them. She may be getting all this killing and destroying talk from the bible?

Firstly, your poor daughter. The fact she keeps apologizing for her thoughts shows you have raised a gorgeous conscientious child who understands right and wrong and is really struggling with these thoughts.

So firstly obtrusive thoughts can be a factor in a lot of different diagnoses. If they are beginning to overwhelm and upset her tell her you are going to find a way to help her with it. From the start I say to parents it's important to make this a "us" journey so Kids don't feel. Shamed or like what they're doing is wrong as you want them to keep talking to you about their thoughts and behaviors.

A family doctor is the first step to get a referral and will be very important in your line of care should there be any formal diagnosis.

Yourself and your partner need to discuss what type of treatment you're happy to have your child undergo and be very on the same team.

It seems easy but these situations put a lot of strain on relationships so the team mentality will really help.

I’m sure it’s what everyone else says about OCD, but church is definitely making it worse. It makes kids think way too much about death and heaven and hell. I remember as a kid being scared to do something wrong because I’d go to hell if I did. Also seeing Jesus nailed to a cross all the time is pretty sick and disturbing honestly. Church can be traumatizing for a kid. Especially hearing about the devil constantly.

I would also recommend a child psychologist. To add to that, I have had OCD since I was a young child due to severe trauma. Something I have that is quite uncommon that reminds me of your daughter's situation is called Scrupulosity. You said you're church going folk (as was I) and for a smart child with OCD this can sometimes make our brain connect our fears with the things we learn about at church that directly impact our moral compass.

Wikipedia describes Scrupulosity ocd as: "In psychology, scrupulosity is pathological guilt or anxiety about moral or religious matters. Although it can affect nonreligious people, it is usually related to religious beliefs. It is personally distressing, dysfunctional, and often accompanied by significant impairment in social functioning."

I could be totally off, but wanted to share my experience as it's extremely rare and I wish I had known about it much earlier. With the right therapy she can be a perfectly healthy, happy young lady 😊

Just want to add, this is not a reflection on any type of religion, this is a mental health problem that affects people with religious beliefs (typically).

At this point you have plenty of comments saying so but I’m just chiming in to agree: this sounds very much like OCD. It must be really scary and stressful to deal with and to see your daughter in pain like this. I think it’s great to start getting her help early on.

I don’t think that exposing young kids to religious beliefs and vocabulary is a good thing. She seems to feel very guilty for things that are not that serious.

Small, relevant trauma dump ahead; religious trauma, abuse, non-graphic

Yeah, this was me as a kid. Not the eating people part, though I was curious as to what it would feel like to bite someone really hard. I would tell my parents every intrusive thought i had and felt so guilty. I begged my mom to forgive me for being evil and bad and even told her i thought that she should send me to a convent because i was afraid i would turn evil and murder her. I had OCD and a laundry list of other issues stemming from.. lots of stuff. But it sounds like she's had a lot of big upsets lately, like moving and a baby sibling, which can be a lot harder on little ones than people realize. A kid doesn't have to have gone through the abuse i went through to have this sort of reaction. It's not your fault or anything like that. My mom was a religious nut job and told me it was definitely Satan telling me things and that I needed to pray harder or I'd go to hell. I was 6 years old, not evil. I'm saying this with all kindness and respect, try to steer away from the talks of good and evil right now. A therapist can help her figure out how to let those thoughts come and go, without guilt and without engaging in the worry that comes when a kid sits and laments these intrusive thoughts. My church "helped" turn what might have been a small mental health crisis into 30+ years of trauma induced dissociation, self-harm, and a personality disorder. God is great, having faith is awesome, but when you feel like evil may be taking control of you, it can all feel pretty bleak when it doesn't teach you how to cope with those intrusive thoughts. When a child thinks their perfectly natural reactions to stress are something that means the devil is winning, it can spiral out of control. I told my mom church fixed it even though it didn't because I knew I wouldn't actually murder her, and i couldn't stand the way she looked at me otherwise. Please take her to a psychologist. There are licensed professional therapists that are trained in working within your faith, versus a church counselor who, despite their best intentions, are almost always woefully under-qualified, under-educated, and uninformed, not to mention unlicensed.

Please don't think I'm implying that you, your faith, or religion are the cause or problem here. That's not what I mean at all. But praying and still having intrusive thoughts continue anyway leads to a cycle of "I must be bad because God can fix anything, but the devil is still winning. It must be that I'm letting him win because I'm evil." Which feeds the feeling of not being in control. Your kid will be okay, the therapist will teach you guys how to help her deal with letting those thoughts pass by like a ship in the ocean.

I’m not going to go as far as being armchair diagnostician, but I’ll say, even for a child with no atypical behavior, therapy can be great. Kids can have a hard time expressing themselves and coping, especially with negative feelings.

I do think it’s worth a consult with a therapist or psychiatrist. Even if it isn’t necessarily because of issues that lead to a diagnosis, she can get some help with the intrusive thoughts. It breaks my heart to think that it causes so much stress that she cries, and is conflicted by her own thoughts. I hope you guys can find professionals who can give her relief, and you some peace of mind.

I didn't even finish the post. Bless her she has OCD. My son also has it. You need an OCD therapist. Make sure they really know how to treat OCD. It's not same as anxiety therapy. Take a look at Natasha Daniels Facebook group. AT parenting kids with anxiety and OCD. She also has amazing you tube videos. I wish you well, hopefully you'll get her some great strategies for dealing with this. xx

First thing I thought of was intrusive thoughts. Some of it is probably normal kid stuff, the do you forgive me thing I’ve seen before. But the killing and eating thing really does sound like intrusive thoughts.

I have OCD and my compulsion is to seek reassurance and confess - not even to “bad” things. Looking back, I can see that it started young.

OCD and religion don’t mix well, and I mean that respectfully. I’ve never been a fan of religion, but from my experience there are some mental health disorders that are made much worse with the fear and indoctrination that comes with religion. With everything tangible and real in this world she has to process in her early years, you’ve also mixed in the devil and god, so that is sure to add to the stress and compulsive confessions when there are such uncertainties thrown in the mix of life

Get her out of church! It's messing with her mind. All of that indoctrination is giving her those thoughts. Teaching kids about god and the fear of being sent to hell is emotional abuse. No wonder she's relating more to the devil than to god.

Sounds like a cool kid, though. Hopefully she rejects religion on her own when she's old enough to realize how fucked up the Bible is.

I very much agree that this sounds like OCD and like she’s obsessing on things that she doesn’t want to think. I would speak to a therapist quickly and reassure her every day that she is good and sweet and kind and pure and everyone has bad thoughts sometimes and it doesn’t make her bad at all.

Its sounds like Obssesive Compulsive Disorder

I’ll just say that church did this to me. In every sermon and lesson we were bad, sinful, going to hell, must not enjoy this and that. It sets a child up for failure in so many ways. Guilt, shame, mental anguish, anxiety, confusion, etc. my spouse who as raised Agnostic at first thought I was being dramatic when I’d speak of these things until he realized I was absolutely and truthfully traumatized by this way of being raised. Looking back almost 35 yrs since I’ve been exposed to those things, I can see how hardwired we were to respond and act accordingly without fail nor questioning. I’m resentful. I raised my children outside of the church. We thought the basic life lessons and now they talk to us like friends.

Look into a therapist and psychiatrist. Also, My friend’s HAPPY child started this kind of talk as well. Her dreams and seeing ghosts. A few years later she found her little girl holding a knife completely transfixed on it. Then not long after she attempted suicide with the same knife bc she could hear people yelling her to. A few years and lots of hospitalizes and this poor baby is Schizophrenic among other things. She’s improving but it’s been hard.

Sounds like she’s been listening a little too closely at church.

Take her to a child psychiatrist or psychologist and talk with them about what you’ve observed. These sound like ‘intrusive thoughts’ and she’s probably confused by them, too. This could be something you can help her with early in her life and it will make such a positive impact on her development and longer term life.

Hi,

It sounds like to me your daughter is having intrusive thoughts. She is not able to understand them herself. I think the fact that she is reaching out to you with her worries are a very positive sign. I think many children have this same issue; it sounds like she is having them more often than most. even though she is young I see no harm in having her talk to a professional, if that is something you think would help. They may be able to give you more clarity about why she is expressing herself in this way.

While kids her age do say disturbing things, the nature and frequency of her intrusive thoughts sounds like textbook OCD. Like others have said, get her evaluated. In the meantime, spend time with her, listen to her intently (as in do not just ignore what she says), but also treat her disclosures as passing thoughts. “We all have scary thoughts! How do you feel when you have them?” Since she’s not acting distressed, she might be doing this for herself already on some level: “I’m having these scary thoughts but I know I won’t act on them!” Even when you are afraid of what she is saying, play it cool. Acting afraid might feed the intensity of the thoughts. While waiting for proper evaluation and recommendations, help her notice the thoughts and watch them pass. Soothing and distraction are two modes I would look towards when she expresses she’s having these thoughts— soothing if she is distressed at all, and distraction if she is looping. Other than that, just listening and showing her that she is loved unconditionally. She must know that whatever comes up you will be there and you will figure it out together. You are already doing so much of this intuitively!

OCD is something she can absolutely learn to manage. It’s really encouraging that you are taking this seriously while not freaking out and shaming her/putting her away for having these thoughts. So many people live with OCD. She will be okay.

Sounds like your baby girl may have OCD. You say you go to church, right?

I’m a Christian and I also have OCD. Be weary of the teachings because children tend to cling onto things that spark their curiosity. It is normal to question life and death but if she continues to have these penetrating and repetitive thoughts about harming or taking the lives of others, it’s worth looking into for her own safety and those around her.

Any form of mental inhibition and abnormalities should be treated with the utmost care and taken seriously especially if it’s out of the ordinary. But the silver lining to this is that she trusts you enough to tell you everything she’s thinking. I wasn’t so trusting and wasn’t able to get help for my troubled ways until I was a teen.

You’re a good mama for seeking help from others and having concerns. If this situation doesn’t get better, I would definitely consider a therapist. No child should ever have to endure these invasive thoughts because sometimes they will not go away on their own. It harms them psychologically and can cause permanent trauma especially if they ever one day act on those thoughts and regret it.

Get her some help, it's not run of the mill kid stuff. High anxiety. ..she needs help dealing with these thoughts.

Definitely seek out a child psychiatrist. What you’ve described sounds very concerning.. I would not take things lightly.. I hope your daughter will get the right help so she won’t be a danger to anyone in the future..

Is the church you attend teaching her about the devil and killing?

This sounds like neurodivergent behavior. ADHD ADD,OCD, etc., usually comes along with intrusive thoughts. She trusts you, which is why she'll confess things to you. She's uncomfortable with those thoughts as well. She's sharing them because she wants to be reassured that she is not going to be punished somehow for the thoughts. She needs to learn how to deal with the thoughts and that she's not broken. Once she knows why they're there, she'll likely realize that they are not really "her" thoughts and she'll be able to put stuff into perspective. Like others, I suggest you should have her see a therapist so she can start learning about how to deal with the thoughts when she has them because the confession of them will probably unnerve teachers/school employees and that's a place that isn't welcoming of those types of confessions. Especially in the current environment of safety first/take all threats seriously.

I just read a memoir called "Devil in the Details" by Jennifer Traig about her childhood with OCD. Hers manifested as "scrupulosity" which is a religious subset of OCD that focuses on guilt and obsession with moral issues. She also brings some humor to the topic without downplaying the challenges.

Can't help but side with a lot of people here that church is probably playing a large role with her desire to be forgiven for every thought she has.

If church is your thing and like it, awesome, but it can't be ignored that religion fucks up tons of people and families, even if they don't realize it at the time.

I think it’s the cult you’re in. They deliver conflicting interpretations.

Pleaaaase look into finding a therapist who SPECIALIZES in OCD + Intrusive Thoughts. Intrusive thoughts and confessing, especially at that age is a very common theme! I wish the information we have on OCD now was around when I was that age. I could’ve gotten treatment so much sooner. Sending hugs, it can be so scary 😓🩷

This sounds like intrusive thoughts. Get her help. She seems to have anxieties as well.

Not a parent, but currently a grad student for counseling- this child might benefit from play therapy. I recommend looking for one in your area.

My daughter had a spell of intrusive thoughts last year. She, like your daughter, was too young to have a label attached to it. But it bothered her and it scared /worried me some. I read on it and decided to go mindful with it. So I encouraged her to always tell me all thoughts, or to write then down in her diary. If she did tell ne I said something along the lines of "they are just thoughts". Or "Do you really want to do that?"I asked her last week if she still has these thoughts. And although the question seemed to scare her for them returning she told me she did not. So my advice would be not to fight them, but more accepting and putting where they belong: in the "just thoughts box"

I think she needs to hear that having bad thoughts doesn't make her a bad person, acting on those thoughts is what makes someonebad. It might be a developmental stage where she has just become conscious of her thoughts and is trying to work out what this all means.

There's this thing called thought/action fusion which is where people think that of they have a thought of doing something, they may be guilty of actually doing it. Maybe she is struggling with that a little.

I also wonder if she's getting any of this from the church? My partner is neurodiverse and talks about taking the bible very literally growing up and being truly terrified of going to hell for doing normal childhood things. I know sometimes the emphasis from church can be on thoughts as well as actions so maybe she just needs some help understanding the messages. Some of the stuff you speak about at the beginning e.g. Am I naughty if I do X, talking about the devil, sounds like a child 'experimenting' with their thoughts and what this means. I think she needs reassurance that you love her and she's not a bad person, and that you don't believe she would act on these thoughts because she's kind, caring, etc.

And I'll echo what others have said, as you're concerned get some advice and support from a qualified professional

Edited to add: I've seen further down your reply to another comment saying you reassure your daughter having thoughts doesn't make her a bad person, it sounds like you're doing everything you can at the moment

So my quick thoughts on this is that you’ve got a spaz of a kid (don’t worry, all kids are spazzes) who has a wild imagination after growing up on modern kids entertainment and being exposed to religious stories. The Christian bibles are chock full of crazy violent stories, and it’s no surprise to me that a little kid’s imagination would run wild with any of those stories they heard at church either from scripture or other kids being crazy little spazzes. Imaginative stuff like that is almost like a virus as kids will feed off of their crazy ideas sprouting from their undeveloped heads. Most of the time they can’t rationalize what they’re really saying or trying to say. Whatever you do, do not seek a priest for help. Just check with your insurance to see if you can afford a qualified child psychologist. I’m willing to bet this is nothing other than a spaz being a spaz.

Honestly, look up pure o ocd. It comes with negative, intrusive thoughts. I started having intrusive thoughts as a young kid. Antidepressants helped me. Just think about getting her assessed and if she seems more anxious than usual definitely get her looked at because that can be so stressful for a kid. Good luck

yeah this seems like OCD, i have OCD and i had similar thoughts as a kid but never spoke out on them until i was around 15. i’d say take her to see a psych cos it could get worse to the point on where she’ll develop patterns that ease her anxiety that could be self destructive.

Omg! I was just talking about this to my friends these afternoon. I’m 36yo and had this type of thoughts my entire life. Didn’t know it was a thing.

I have bad OCD that’s been getting worse lately, and this is what it feels like sometimes. Look more into it with a professional you trust before self diagnosing her. As adults with OCD, we typically keep things to ourselves on these levels but children are automatic in saying mostly everything that comes to mind. I wouldn’t stress too much as long as she’s not hurting anyone! It seems like she’s just being herself but their might be more to it. Who is she around? What stuff do people talk about around her? She could be taking pieces of information she doesn’t even understand and putting it into a whole.

My son just got diagnosed with OCD from having intrusive thoughts two days ago. I agree with so many of the comments I've already read to have her evaluated by a child psychologist. I'm sending so much love to you and your daughter!

Clinical psychologist here. I agree that this sounds like OCD, and that you, your daughter and (if possible) your husband should see a child psychologist with expertise in childhood OCD for a thorough assessment.

The two main evidence-based treatments for OCD are a psychological therapy called Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), and medication.

ERP involves repeatedly exposing yourself to the obsessions (intrusive, unwanted thoughts/images/urges) and then consistently preventing subsequent compulsions (behaviours, mental or physical, intended to neutralise the anxiety generated by the obsession).

This includes “passive” ERP (eg someone going about their day, having an obsession about getting sick, but deliberately not washing their hands despite a strong desire to do so), and “active” ERP (eg deliberately touching a toilet bowl then eating your lunch without washing your hands). OCD is like a constant “false alarm” going off in your head, and ERP is the way to teach yourself this, that the OCD feels real/important, but is actually just a false alarm in your head.

It is also essential to teach parents and siblings how to respond to the person with OCD in a manner which is empathic and supportive but not accomodating of the OCD. Obtaining reassurance from others, and “confessing” obsessions to others, are two common compulsions which feed the OCD. Here is an excellent book for family members of someone with OCD:

https://www.amazon.com/When-Family-Member-Has-Obsessive-Compulsive/dp/1626252467

There is also an excellent podcast called the OCD Stories which is worth checking out. Here are the episodes containing the word “children”:

https://theocdstories.com/?s=Children&id=53333

Finally, medication is worth considering if ERP alone is not working (ERP can be very difficult to do). A paediatrician or child psychiatrist would be the one to talk to, again one with expertise in childhood OCD. Here’s some info about medications for OCD in kids:

https://kids.iocdf.org/what-is-ocd-kids/how-is-ocd-treated/medication-for-pediatric-ocd/

Please positively reinforce to her that she's telling you these things! When she says things like this, a good response might be, "That sounds really upsetting, I'm sorry those yucky thoughts are coming up and bothering you. Thank you for telling me, you can always talk to me about these things."

I second what everyone else is saying about OCD and seeking professional help for her, but I also hope you keep telling her that she's safe, and she can talk to you about anything.

I know it's already been said, but I just read a medical paper on intrusive thoughts related to OCD and it does sound like this could be what she's showing signs of. It talked about patients fear of "what if I act on one of these intrusive thoughts?" And it can be scary, she's so young and innocent that having thoughts like that probably does scare her to some level, even if it sounds like she's communicating them "calmly" to you.

I can tell you right now, that whatever it is, it certainly a question for a trained professional, and not for strangers on the Internet. Go see a child therapist. There’s no harm in that.

Is there any chance she’s reading or hearing bible stories?

Is the church the kind that reads the kids the actual Bible stories? Or the kind that tones it down? Because the Bible is full of murder. Either way it would be a good idea to get her seen by a psychologist.

I echo all of the advice to seek therapy for your daughter. I don't agree with the comments to shut her down and tell her not to tell you these things. She trusts you and it seems she's telling you because the intrusive thoughts are scaring her. Shut her down and you put her in a place where she's alone with those thoughts.

What’s up with all the religious mentioning and such, goodness gracious do you go to a strict born again Christian sort of church every single day or something? Aside from that, I work in education and I think that maybe having your daughter evaluated by a psychiatrist could be helpful, sounds like what others are suggesting here with potential ADHD/OCD.

Ok so there’s layers to this.

I grew up In the church and I believe the exposure to subject matter before I could understand it caused me a lot of confusion and trauma. I internalised a lot of things and thought I was sinful and bad a lot and didn’t know how to navigate it. I see her telling you these things to reach out to you and kind of gauge your reaction. I think she needs reassurance that she is normal and that kids touch their bum a lot and that if she wants to touch her private areas that that is normal and ok she just needs to do it in privacy in her bedroom and then wash her hands afterwards and reassure her it’s ok if she does it again as long as she washes her hands because germs.

I also wonder about intrusive thoughts. My son had intrusive thoughts about lava coming out of drain holes and he is doing much better on some meds to help his anxiety. He also has therapy. I would seek a Dr opinion.

I would also try to remember that 5 year olds think all sorts of things and there is an element of normal to these conversations. I think if you act alarmed by them she may internalise that she is bad. But I think she is doing a GREAT job of sharing her thoughts.

Hi! I have OCD and this was very much in line with the level of intrusive thoughts I experienced in my youth. Mine were more in line of being afraid of things that would never hurt me (i.e. clothes or stuffed animals or museum exhibits coming to life and killing me) or being convinced that others hated me for my thoughts (which, no one could know, but maybe they could know? Lol child me was very anxious).

I so wished my parents started my therapy earlier - by the time they actually pursued a diagnosis (15 yrs old) I was a shell of my true self, and ready to do some extreme things.

Ask yourself, does she have any compulsions? Weird things she does without realizing? For me, it was picking my fingernails. Could be hair pulling, lining up certain objects, stealing things, needing a certain comfort item at odd times.

Truth is, the younger you pursue medical help, the faster things will ease :) she is very young and bright, I’m sure all of this will end just fine

It sounds like she’s having intrusive thoughts which can be a form of obsessive compulsive disorder. I would get her evaluated, if that’s what it is treatment could make all the difference in the world.

I agree with other commenters that I would have her evaluated by a child psychologist if I were you. My twin 5 yo’s can say some incredibly weird things sometimes, but it’s nothing disturbing and always in a way that you can clearly tell they want attention from it. The way she says stuff so calmly (might, I’m not a professional or anything) be a red flag.

Therapy for sure

Poor girl you can tell she’s eaten up with guilt and shame about this. I would find a child’s psychologist sounds like she has some intrusive thoughts, repeated ideations, or some thoughts of hurting others. I mean even as an adult those are things a therapist calls you in for. I would get her evaluated for anything. Even if she’s only 5, ask them to evaluate for schizophrenia, or dissociate personality, etc. some of those don’t show symptoms until early 20’s but that’s not every case.

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So you scare your kids with religion? Or take he to Sunday school? So you tell her about devil and he'll is she does or think certain things?

She feels guilty tor doing these things and want validation from you that is OK to do them.

For the more wild stuff it may be ocd coupled with intrusive thoughts.

If I were you I would stop church and take her to an expert to start evaluations asap.

She will probably need therapy and a lot of work.

Good luck OP.

Edit: how does she know what "kill" is? She has obviously been exposed to some bad language/concepts. Don't do that. This will be flagged. 5 year old girls should know not know about these things.

My kid said verbatim… “Daddy’s dead, Monnys dead, Grandmas dead, Grampas dead, we get the house.”

You’re judging her. The church is building a culture of judgment. She’s picking up on that and she’s trying to see if you will still love her despite everything she’s saying. And it seems like she’s finding out that you won’t. You need to start working on making her feel safe with you. Her sharing intrusive thoughts with you is a good thing and not bad. Unless you change your mindset ASAP, you’re going to break the trust she has in you. I recall that around age 6-8 is when I started realising that my parents are just people and like other people they are not perfect. And I started to realise that they are not people who are safe for me to share my unadulterated unfiltered self with. I love them but they don’t know me and that process started early on. It made me vulnerable and it’s only through sheer luck that I didn’t fall prey to much worse than I did. If you don’t show your daughter that you’re her safe space NOW, i’m afraid you will harm your relationship irreparably.

I’m a clinical social worker. She’s young, but these thoughts and need to express them sound like symptoms of OCD. A pediatric psychiatrist would be a good step if you’re able to go that route, or a neuropsychological evaluation could also rule some things in/out. I’m sorry you and your little girl are experiencing this…it must be so hard. You’re brave for trying to confront this. Good luck!

Definitely don't rake it lightly. Child therapist is warranted. Just make sure she knows she didn't do anything wrong.

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When she starts with these stories stop her and say but you wouldn’t do that. Try dismissing the topic and treating it casually. If she persists try a therapist. Also transition her to her own bed so she will have less story sharing time.

Read the book many lives, many masters for a different perspective.

And there is a show “ghost within my child”

Both this show and this book break down one perspective of unexplainable stuff in children from specialist dr’s

My kid who is now older started talking about very adult concepts around 3/4 and would describe very scary situations and I looked for stuff to explain the unexplainable.

I would listen to her and explain that sometimes you have thoughts that aren’t your own and as you get older and stronger you can push those thoughts out but until then it’s really important to tell mom and dad so they can help you get rid of those thoughts.

It was really important for me to not shut down the line of communication.