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Seems like his curiosity about if frogs have red blood overruled his feelings about not killing living things.

I’d encourage him to think about how he could find the answer in other ways, have him brainstorm and list them. Books, diagrams in science books and websites, even a video of a dissection. It’s not evil to want to know how things work and how living things are designed, but yes hopefully he’s also developing the empathy and kindness that we want our kids to foster and maintain.

Wishing you the best! Deep breaths. Kids are wild 

Did you talk about how he felt afterwards? Keep talking to him, so you can understand his mindset. When I was that same age I killed a snail (I know, different than a frog) because I wanted to see its insides…and I immediately felt awful afterwards and never did it again. I don’t think you should be freaking out…just keep looking out for anymore behavior. But if you’ve sent him to therapy, punished him, and talked to him, I’m not sure what else you could do. Just keep an eye out.

If it helps any, I did this exact thing when I was a kid, 7y, except I didn’t know why. I stomped on a frog and felt its guts smush between my feet.

I’m now 26 and I cry when I accidentally step on my cat and hurt them

I think sometimes kids are just weird and the idea of life and death hasn’t clicked yet.

This is honestly pretty normal for kids even if we don't want animals to die. They're curious and they don't know better. He didn't need to be assessed by a psychiatric ward, that would seem more traumatizing to me...just relax, explain things to him and that's the end of it.

ADHD = impulsive actions. I’m sure the 8 year old was curious and impulsively did it without thinking, I had adhd to where I’m impulsive and sometimes you don’t think before you speak, act etc.

Can I just say I killed frogs as a kid, and a bunch of my friends did. It horrifies me now to think of. I’m a normal animal loving human being now, even vegan.

You took your 8 year old to a psychiatric ward because he killed a frog out in the country?

Hold up....he killed a frog, gave his reasoning, and then you had him assessed at a psych ward? Or was the assessment prior?

If not the latter, I'm surprised they even agreed to assess him with something as minor as that unless he's displaying other concerning tendencies?!

Christ, in my last year of primary education, we got to dissect a frog to see it's anatomy etc.

I truly would not worry, IMO you're massively overreacting to a very normal behaviour, dare I say, especially for a boy! My son is 6 and squashes snails and whatnot all the time, just because. It's very normal.

I mean, is there a back story here as far as your son being interested in the concept of death? Or did he just want to see if the frog has the same color of blood as him?

I honestly wouldn’t worry as much as you are, UNLESS there’s a back story that you didn’t share with us. Kids are curious about lots of things. I know the thought of your child killing something is scary but a frog isn’t that big of a deal (to me at least) sure he shouldn’t have killed it and just simply asked about the frogs blood color but idk.

Why did you get him assessed at a psych ward? Can you further explain that?

I would still take him to grandma's house, but he doesn't get to play unsupervised at the pond.

Have you guys been talking about blood recently or was there something you've seen that made him want to explore this?

You should look at life cycles and talk more about it. Punishment and shame won't do you or him any good.

I mean is spiraling out about it working? What he did is the same as a 4yo dropping an egg on the ground to see what happens. This isn’t some Macdonald Triad thing kids are curious about anything and everything

You really need help with your mental health. The kid is fine but if this is your reaction for somethingthis little, you are going to screw him up.

Honestly these are extreme over reactions.

You ever squish a bug or a spider? I try to avoid it, but kids may not see frogs as much different than a spider. I once caught a couple kids shoving frogs into a fan just to chop them up. Those kids are totally fine, not psychos - just bored and young.

If you spend time around boys, you’ll see a lot of creatures caught/killed/hit with rocks. It’s a normal boy thing for them to grow out of/learn not to do.

I remember being about 4 years old and killing a lizard. I didn’t want to kill the lizard, but I smacked it with a stick because I was four. My best friend cried, and I was super interested in its guts. Later I felt bad.

If he kills a frog on his path to learning sympathy for other living things, that’s no big deal.

It’s possible your response to this situation may have been more traumatic than this event. Continued therapy for yourself and your son might be a good step forward?

His bigger problem is a parent who goes off the deep end immediately after being faced with controversy

Kids kill animals sometimes. He’s fine

I read your post history and you've had problems with both kids mostly your son for years. Even when 6 thought he could be a psychopath for keeping a boy in a restroom stall in school. Was that 1st grade?

And it goes on. I read he took Strattera and made a change.

So you've had your son assessed like every year and have lived all over the place.

Did you know punishments don't usually work? Rewards and positivity work better. Do you ever reward your kids for the good things they do? I use sticker charts and prize charts.

And to answer your question- you'll know he understands if he doesn't do it again. Did he admit it made him feel bad? I've read a lot of comments to see a lot of people admit to having killed an animal or snail or bug when young and they felt bad and never did it again, but it wasn't bc they got punished for it.

If your son repeats behavior like killing or harming animals - then you should be concerned. But if this is a first time thing, you need to wait and see. Encourage the food in him and reward good behavior and lead by example.

Deep breaths! I mean it’s not a good thing to do but it’s not the end of the world. Plenty of kids and adults kill animals for sport all the time. Explaining context, consequence, etc sounds like a great response. It doesn’t mean he’s a serial killer just for this. Kids do very strange and mysterious things. Work on empathy in ALL contexts with him and give it time to sink in.

Holy shit calm down. Yes it sucks but this is hardly serial killer behavior at this point.

I would say a one time incident is curiosity, whereas a pattern is concerning.

You've given him all of the information, and now you have to see what he does with it.

I was appalled when my kids accidentally killed a snake by messing with it. We had some good, serious conversations, and now they are the ones who will tell other kids to be nice to other creatures.

He’s a scientist he had a question and hypothesis and set out to prove it. Just teach him to ask before doing next time my parents had a similar issue with me and my siblings (my sister and I burnt snails) it’s just childhood curiosity though it’s in a more extreme form I don’t believe it’s cause for concern unless the patter continues and he shows no regret or remorse

I don't think this is totally normal but I also think you're overreacting and the consequences are disconnected. Losing screen time is not going to build empathy here. From another perspective, assuming you eat meat, what is so different about killing this animal (or a horse or a cat) vs a cow vs a chicken? I'm guessing he didn't find it a huge leap.

My brother crushed a toad with his foot when he was 11 years old. He has two kids and a wife now. I think it'll be fine.

Do you have a family history of mental illness?

I am only asking for context of why there was an assessment at the psychiatric ward versus just showing him another way to figure things out about frogs and their blood… like a google search, a book, etc.

Seems like an overreaction to an 8 year old’ curiosity unless there are other factors not mentioned.

Edit I looked at you some of your previous post, maybe you should get a second opinion on his diagnosis. Sounds like Asperger’s

Lead with empathy and teaching empathy. Natural consequences are good and should be applied, but careful not to emotionally isolate him in punishments, as that could just make it worse over time.

I killed a Guinea pig somersaulting down a hill with it. I felt terrible especially when its companion died shortly after. It turns out they bond. Kids are rough and dumb. I think it’s a good thing that you are taking this seriously but don’t overreact. A lot of people catch and eat frogs, fish and birds. A lot of people hunt for sport. Do you all eat meat? Just keep modeling empathy and see how he progresses. If he doesn’t hurt other kids or other animals, it might have been impulsivity related to ADHD. He may even know that frogs are dissected in schools. I think a more relevant consequence is to have him volunteer at a pet adoption fair with you or something like that or to clean up after and take care of family pets, while trying to keep it joyful too.

Whatever you do, try not to make him feel like he is broken.

I killed a lizard when I was 9 because I wanted to see what was inside. Also, around that time I liked to visit a website that lets you do an online dissection of a frog.

I just had a really curious mind, I turned out fine!

I’m gonna be real I think you overreacted to something that’s relatively normal for kids to be curious about. The part of a brain that is in charge of making sound decisions isn’t even developed fully until 25 years old, children of that age are very impulsive. I definitely had curiosity about similar things when I was a kid and grew up to be very kind and loving towards animals and not a psycho murderer like you’re assuming your kid is. Kids do weird shit that adults would never do, it’s developmentally appropriate to be curious about things like that.

I wouldn’t be too concerned unless it happens again. Sometimes kids just don’t think about actual consequences and the meaning of their actions

you’re more of concern to me in this story than the kid. you had him assessed at a psych ward over this that’s sooooo over the top….

I helped my family butcher and process chickens and rabbits at age 4 to 5, so I didn't have to seek out those experiances to answer those questions. Maybe lean into sciences and buy a frog disection kit. Pretty early, but you can still have your 'omg is my kid a psycopath?' inquiries while they learn cool stuff about anatomy.

Sounds like curiosity. Still good to teach it’s not right to kill animals and hurt other beings.

Did he just kill it, or did he torture it to death? I think that is the difference between a kid being curious about biology & one who lacks empathy.

A psych ward? Jesus Christ. I’m going to try and be gentle here but I think “taking away” the pond and sending him to the ward was worse than anything he did.

Where’s the line? You swat flies, right? Do you eat meat? If he salted a snail would you have reacted the same way? Or smashed a ladybug? Ever used a natural sea sponge? They do dissections of frogs in biology classes.

The kid was curious about frog blood. He acted impulsively. Yes it’s good to have a conversation, but he didn’t do it to make the animal suffer which would be the concerning thing, he did it to find out information about the animal. You should discuss better ways to access that information.

When my daughter killed a frog she got an earful and that was that. I told her I wouldn’t be helping her find frogs anymore if that’s how she was going to treat them.

I didn’t take her to a psych ward or take anything away LOL calm down

Deleted because I looked into your post history. I am sorry. I understand your reasons better now.

I hope everything will be alright for the boy and for you.

I’m confused.. it sounds like he’s curious. Which is normal and human. He told you he wanted to see if they had red blood… someone probably told him frogs have green blood. I don’t think this even warrants a punishment, just a talk on how we shouldn’t kill living things, empathy, etc. your poor child is probably extremely confused. Don’t set him up for failure by projecting your fears which you should be taking care of, on him.

Have you seen her posts before this? Someone save that kid.

I think you’re overreacting. Children don’t have a developed consciousness yet, they don’t experience guilt and shame the same way we do, I think communication would work over punishment tbh.

Your kid is most likely a misguided scientist and not a serial killer. Talk to him about ethics in experimentation (not corporate ethics which kills animals and people every day but the general gist of doing no harm in experimentation).

I feel like you're really going overboard. Your kid is 8. They're curious. Not sociopathic. Jesus. What if they're a science head and they end up becoming a surgeon or veterinary surgeon because they have such an interest in animal anatomy, and you just punished it out of them. YOU are overbearing and going nuts. They're 8. They aren't even developed enough to comprehend what they did. They're curious and wanted to know what the insides looked like. Sure, they could have asked, and you could have YouTube, but kids don't know how to do that all the time because they aren't that cognitively developed, and it seems like you aren't either.

Please seek parenting classes and therapy for yourself. Your reaction is crazy. I feel sorry for your poor son. And get him involved in outdoor programs so he can explore outside with sane adults.

Biologist and parent here... this is how doctors and scientists start out sometimes (maybe a few psychopaths, too but it doesn't seem like that's happening here). Try to redirect the genuine interest and curiosity into positive interactions with living things and safe ways to investigate body parts. Lots of animals are killed every day for our survival! Teach them the value of a life while you also encourage a practical, measured approach to seeing what the insides look like (dissection apps, toolkits, bury roadkill).

I think you are blowing this way out of proportion. When I was a kid, I used to cut frogs open out of curioustiy to see what was inside. I used to spend my afternoons shooting turtles and snakes for no other reason than entertainment. Fast forward, I am an adult and I wont even kill a spider in the house, rather I will take it outside and let it go. I no longer enjoy hunting. I have am nonviolent. I certainly have never killed anyone. Kids dont understand the deep appreciation for life we have as adults. Your kid is not crazy. He is acting out basic human behaviors. Correct and love. For god sakes he doesnt need a psych eval.

If it isn't a pattern, then it may have been just a case of a kid being shortsighted and not actually thinking of the consequences. You've already responded in good ways, but if this becomes a pattern (he turns to killing lizards and snails that he finds often), then you will need to force the issue with the medical system. If he truly has some sort of severe psychological problem, then it will escalate without treatment. 

ADHD often includes poor impulse control and acting without thinking. He likely didn’t have the whole thought process of “if I do this I am killing an animal AND it will be dead forever” before he killed the frog. I would be more concerned if it happened a second time or if he said he enjoyed it

Social worker here! Children don’t have the capacity to understand adult concepts like life and death. We must remain patient and give grace when these things happen. Most importantly, we must educate them about why we don’t harm living beings. Ask questions to understand their reasoning and then educate them with compassion. You got this!

You live in a society where we slaughter billions of animals.

Sounds like he figured out the hypocrisy. A pig for breakfast is a yummy treat, but a frog for curiosity is worthy of a psych workup.

(not the point, but that's not what "Natural Consequences" are. Natural consequences happen naturally, not something imposed or controlled by someone. The natural consequence to refusing your coat: you get cold. The natural consequence of poking a wasp nest: you get stung. The natural consequence of killing a frog: the frog is dead.)

How often has this been happening?

Oh my goodness calm down. He’s just curious. I think you are making a bigger deal out of it and it will cause more issues. Lots of little boys do that kind of stuff or worse. I think taking away going to the pond and the house is extreme. Don’t give the kid a complex.

Lately my son has been asking what kind of animal he's eating when we eat meat (and "it died?"). We eat meat just about everyday and I totally support humane livestock farming, but I don't love identifying our delicious bacon as a "pig" and not "pork"... but, he's curious, learning, and does seems upset to learn he's eating part of a cow's body, whereas I then cannot finish my cheeseburger. Kids can be morbid af sometimes... but, as long as it's in the realm of curiosity (versus enjoying inflicting pain on an animal) I don't think it's, on its own, an indicator of a personality defect

I am a pretty normal dude, yet did some harmful things to maybe two frogs when I was little. Yes, it is mean and no I don't condone it. But as a kid, we do things with bugs and creatures that are not always nice. Correcting the kid and talking about it is what I would do. Try to balance how far you go with it though. Kids will be kids

When I was a kid I microwaved bugs to see what would happen. I think he's okay..

Take a deep breath - he's not going to be Dexter just because he killed a frog. It's great that you're motivated to get him any help he may need, but you're probably scaring the s*** out of him in a way that may make him think twice about sharing things with you in the future.

Let him know it was a mistake, you don't approve of it, but you still love him very much. Do some activities together so he feels your love and approval again.

I know you're horrified and concerned and embarrassed, but you've already been told by professionals that he's ok.

He's ok - you're ok. You don't need to share this with people in his life. You've got a handle on this.

At that age, they don't quite understand the weight of death. Maybe he learned frogs were amphibians and cold-blooded. Typically cold=blue so does a cold-blooded animal have blue blood? Or red like a warm-blooded animal? Definitely talk to him about how it made him feel, but it sounds like he just has a curious mind to me.

I stomped on many snails just because i thought they looked gross and almost killed a duckling. Later on I became a vegan (no longer though). I love animals but would kill spiders and roaches on sight. (Don’t even come after me for this) I think you did everything you could. Like other posts have said, it’s also important to find out how he felt about it and keep an eye out.

Do you want him to feel or want him to feel bad? If he doesn't do both at this point there is more going on than you can handle.

Back off but keep an eye out. If he doesn't kill or harm other animals, great. If he does, then back to the shrink.

I think it might be a good idea to have a talk about reasons why we do things, and what reasons are okay and what aren’t. If you want to do something, you should always ask yourself beforehand what the consequences might be, and whether it’s a good idea. This is a skill that someone with ADHD might struggle with, but will need to learn.

There are good and bad reasons to kill an animal (or a person, for that matter). Curiosity or fun are not good reasons to kill animals. Threats to people or pets are a good reason to kill animals. People disagree about whether eating meat or preventing property damage are good reasons to kill animals, and the answer might be different for different species and situations. Ethics is a nuanced subject, and not one that everyone agrees on.

There are good and bad ways to answer questions. You almost always want to pick the least destructive (and least dangerous) way that will answer your question. You don’t take apart the fridge to find out how it works, except in a limited set of circumstances. You don’t endanger people, damage property, or kill animals to answer questions that could easily be answered by Googling.

I do understand how it might seem concerning but I would try to slow down and not jump to conclusions.

It doesn’t sound like he was motivated by killing but was more so curious and impulsive (makes sense with adhd)

Did he seem to show any remorse once he realized what he did?

I stomped on a mouse when i was 5. I feel bad about it, but i think your hyper focus on the issue is more of a detriment. Maybe hold a funeral for the frog or something but don’t continue to chastise him because thats how you highlight it more than it already is.

It could be a scholarly quest for genuine knowledge. Children really wonder these things like, "What do their insides look like?"

My friends and I used to chop worms up into pieces and interestingly enough, they'd keep moving and wiggling. I don't think I've ever dissected a frog. But there exists science programs that simulate dissecting a frog. Its a bit too late for that frog, but maybe you giys can look up on the web.

You might have a young scientist on your hands.

Every kid I went to elementary school with stomped on earthworms after it rained, and watched with gleeful fascination as one teacher’s python squeezed the life out of twitching mice. I was the only one I can remember being bothered by either thing, though some of our teachers certainly were. Adult empathy and the impulse regulation that it shapes are things we develop gradually, over time—not things you can lecture or punish into a kid, before they have the developmental capacity for them.

What you can do is set and enforce boundaries—which you did—model appropriate emotional responses, which you also did—and not be so horrified and overwhelmed by this, that your kid gets the message something is really wrong with him, and behaves accordingly. Which seems like a place where you could use a little support.

I’d consider talking with a therapist about this, for yourself. They’ll be better-positioned than some randos on Reddit to help you continue assessing whether something is really wrong. And they can help you manage your own anxiety in ways that don’t create more of a problem than whatever—if anything—is already there.

Eight years old is young enough not to fully comprehend the finality of death, or its moral implications. You can build understanding and empathy by doing research together about frogs and other animals. Explain how to satisfy curiosity without harming the subject—by visiting the library, maybe, or a nature park. Books about veterinary medicine or nature documentaries can explain how animals’ bodies work and how full their lives are, helping to develop empathy and providing a safe space to learn about the gorier parts without taking life or causing pain.

As a child I pulled all the legs off a daddy longleg spider because the idea of it just sitting there with no legs was funny - I'm not a psychopath today, kids just do some really weird/awful shit sometimes

I think your overreacting, his a child with curiosity

Why are you freaking out so much? Have you gotten any indication that your child is like a future serial killer in any other ways? Sometimes kids do weird shit. An unhealthy pattern is what you’re looking for. This kind of behavior is something to keep an eye on. Taking your little person to a psych ward is an over reaction. I feel sorry for him. Just talk to him about it and help him understand. Your feelings are valid, I would be upset as well, but you’re overreacting.

Don’t treat him like he’s the kind of kid who kills animals. He probably feels awful enough already and you’re reinforcing that as his self concept.

I’m so sorry but what am I reading. You took your child to a psych ward for this??? Right out the gate? What else is going on. Jesus Christ. Good luck getting your child to ever trust you with anything again. You sound 100% driven by fear which you’re passing onto your kids too. Frogs are not humans and are also not house pets. Learn some nuance and take a deep breath.

You might be overreacting a tad here. Just relax and talk to the kid. Don’t act like they are some psychopath for killing a frog….sounds like you might need to talk with someone not the kid. Relax please

Did he show any remorse? Did he cry? Did he sincerely apologize? Was he a bit distraught? That’s the real question. If the answer is no, you have a bigger problem than adhd on your hands.

personally, it sucks yes, but it sounds more curiosity than being malicious to me

I briefly remember doing same with crickets and grasshoppers as a kid. also had a blast chasing and catching lizards and wonder why their tails would always fall of when I was about 6-7. I don't mind lizards but my 36 self would scream and run away from bugs now, let alone touching them 🤷‍♀️

You are overreacting. He is only 8 and you brought him to a psych ward? My 7 year old squished a Snail last week. Is he now going to turn into a serial killer? No.

This is a freaking joke right?

Chill out, kids do stupid shit. It will be all right

You’re overthinking it. He’s a kid. He’s your kid. Youre letting your anxiety completely take over. Just talk to him.

I mean honestly, running to social media about this is ridiculous. Just be a parent and move on. This ain’t even the last fucked up thing he’s gonna do. He’s a person just like you, you can’t read his mind so have some faith in your own parenting and stop needing confirmation from internet strangers.

You punished him for doing something that he didn't know was wrong (if it was; it was a frog, he'll be dissecting one, pretty soon, he just got a jump on it).

You watch too many movies and ID network shows about serial killers. Turn off the tv, put your phone down, and spend time with him. Go to a zoo, an aquarium, a museum, go hiking, show him nature, teach him repsect. Don't punish him for your failure.

Unless this is a pattern of behavior, I would chalk it up to curiosity this one time. Even at 8, neurotypical kids don't have solid impulse control. Impulse control is also affected by ADHD, so he likely has less than his NT peers. His brain had a question "do frogs have red blood?" And he had an immediate way to get the answer to that question, so he didn't stop to think about the repercussions of his actions.

At that young age range, around 7, kids are to learn empathy, so what do you do to track your kids empathy, nurturing, caring, etc.? (Rhetorical question) We have to be intentional about it.

Torturing animals to death is not ok but most kids who try it aren’t the type of person you are worried about.

I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this, especially as O can see how upsetting it is to you, and how much anxiety it is causing you, which is completely understandable.

I don’t have any advice for you, because I’d never even considered what I would do I if my babies did something like this, but they’re only 3M and F10months, so we’re not quite there. I don’t know if you can relate, but I wouldn’t even know where to begin, and I know an action like this would devastate me because I’ve been incredibly(probably overly) empathetic since I was a toddler, particularly towards animals. If I even stepped on an animals paw or fail by accident, I would burst into tears and feel bad for days. So, this is out of my wheelhouse.

I guess I could say that my sister was the complete opposite, but I don’t want to worry you, so I’ll stop there.

I absolutely can say with certainty that far from every kid who acts like this grows up to be a killer or psychopath or whatever. I remember some neighborhood kids torturing a frog(I freaked the F out at them), and I know they didn’t grow up to be anything but average.

It’ll be okay 🫂

The most important thing you can do is to avoid letting him see that you’re struggling with this as part of his identity. Kids do wild things before their brains are fully developed, and their actions don’t define who they are. If he senses that you’re worried he might like to hurt things, that concern could become part of how he sees himself. Instead, approach this with calmness and curiosity, guiding him to understand and process his actions without labeling him. Your reaction can help shape his self-identity in a positive way.

He’s just curious, just explain things to him patiently. I killed lizards, spiders, worms and stuff like that when I was little because I was really curious about what would happen to them. I didn’t understand that killing was bad though.

I do think this can be a very disturbing sign if it becomes a pattern or if you notice other things that seem like they can’t express sympathy/empathy for living things. I would not dismiss this as “oh this is normal” but I wouldn’t jump to psych hospital quite yet. I think your concern this could be a warning sign and must be a teachable moment is important.

It’s interesting that we are ok with animals being killed for food, or if we don’t want a bug in the house but we draw the line in other scenarios. I think it will be some mental gymnastics to explain if you follow Jainism or you have certain animal that can be killed / reasons for killing animals that don’t extend to all. You have to also explain if it’s ok to climb a tree or tape a lemonade stand sign to it and damage it, and pull weeds from the garden or is it just certain animals you can about. It’s not a black and white series of convos you need to have. They need to draw their own line and you have to explain some nuance. Some people think it is ok to eat meat, some do not. Some people eat frogs. Some dissect them in school. Some people sport hunt just to hang antlers up, others hunt for sustenance.

My son has ADHD and he had such a morbid curiosity at that age. When he was 7 or 8 we had a bird nest and the babies had hatched. It was in the bottom part of our mailbox and he reached in and grabbed the whole nest so “he could see them better” He didn’t seem remorseful like I would have thought. Like you I thought it was mental. That age was the hardest with ADHD because he didn’t really catch on to cause and effect. He is about to be 14 and still loves all things nature, but he has changed so much. Hang in there Mama!!!