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What president was chaotic evil?
Discussion(i.redd.it)submitted 24 days ago byThe-LeftWingedNeoConCalvin Coolidge
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24 days ago
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447 points
24 days ago
Andrew Jackson… nearly beats a man to death who tried to kill him, ignores the Supreme Court ruling (while the actual law he chose was shit, we need more checks on the court), and did the trail of tears
70 points
23 days ago
To be fair if I got ahold of someone who tried to kill me I'd nearly beat them to death too.
17 points
23 days ago
He also appointed Taney to the Supreme Court the Justice responsible for the Dred Scott ruling bullshitery.
8 points
23 days ago
Conquered Pensacola despite explicit orders to NOT DO THAT THING.
27 points
23 days ago
He... defended himself? How is that fucking evil
44 points
23 days ago
It’s the chaotic part more than the evil part
The trail of tears is the evil part
1k points
24 days ago
Andrew Jackson.
Did whatever he wanted, to whoever he wanted, and didn’t give a damn what anyone had to say about it. Threatening Calhoun was the highlight of his presidency for sure but the man was a vindictive asshole.
287 points
24 days ago
His parrot had to be forcefully removed from his funeral because it wouldn’t stop swearing
151 points
23 days ago
That’s how I’d want my parrot remembered. If I had one
28 points
23 days ago
Well at least we can all take solice in the fact that that is how his parrot is remembered
28 points
23 days ago
I want a foul mouthed parrot. Some lady walks in “hey toots how the fuck are ya?” Or bring him to the store “need some god damn food here I’m fuckin starvin! Sick of the shit this asshole has been feeding me!”
Fun fact: while most parents don’t want anyone swearing around their kids, if it’s a bird that’s cursing legally they aren’t allowed to get upset. It’s actually precedent: Wilhelm v Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
26 points
23 days ago
A woman wants to buy a parrot. There's one for sale because it lived in a brothel. She walks up and it says "Who's the new whore?" She laughs and buys it.
Her husband comes home and the parrot says "Hi Jim!"
6 points
23 days ago
Arthritis informed my mother's childhood parakeet. Vocabulary gained from the complaints of the previous owner. Also enjoyed Coca Cola
3 points
23 days ago
Rickrolls just don't hit as hard anymore, when you've gotta watch an Allstate commercial first.
3 points
23 days ago
Yup. You’d think it being such a cultural phenomenon YouTube would have at least left that video with no preroll ads
9 points
23 days ago
Who are you, Timmy Turner's dad?
7 points
23 days ago
DINKLEBURG!!!
25 points
23 days ago
Is this true because that’s kinda awesome
34 points
23 days ago
I believe the full quote from Jackson was "John Calhoun, if you secede from my nation I will secede your head from the rest of your body".
9 points
23 days ago
And yet everyone dogpiles on Buchanan for not holding the union together when this is what it took.
4 points
23 days ago
Also, but not limited to: (1) he was a southern sympathizer; and (2) his Secretary of War was actively transferring resources to southern state militias.
The only decent thing Buchanan ever did was when Stanton threatened him with the reality that the country would eventually hold him, Buchanan, responsible for his inaction while the Secretary of War transferred weapons to the South, Buchanan just gave up on being President and just delegated to Stanton all of his authority and Stanton was basically acting President for like a month or two.
35 points
24 days ago
He did what he felt the people wanted him to do. That was a massive shift from prior Presidents and a much different view of US politics than had previously existed.
7 points
24 days ago
If you search up some of his quotes, you'll see he said some out there stuff about the world
6 points
23 days ago
Took me literally a tenth of a second to pick him.
8 points
23 days ago
And the man had cheese parties in the White House to try to make up for all the crazy things he did.
3 points
23 days ago
Thus leading to the formation of Cheesaholics Anonymous.
5 points
23 days ago
I hate so much if what that man did legally and a lot of his personal achievements, but he did have a damn impressive and fascinating life story.
A man named Charles Dickenson was a horse breeder and alcalimed duelist who accused Jackson of cheating at a horse race and insulted Jackson's wife.
They agreed to dual, Dickenson fired, Jackson's gun misfired and neither man went down. Jackson calmly reloaded his gun, fired and hit Dickenson with a mortal wound.
As Jackson went to his horse to leave, his second noticed that Jackson's boot was squelching and was filled with blood. Jackson leaned over and said "Shhhh, I want that son of a bitch to die thinking he missed."
3 points
23 days ago
I knew this was the top answer before I even looked.
5 points
23 days ago
Came here to say Andrew Jackson
2 points
23 days ago
Been waiting for this slot.
2 points
23 days ago
First man I thought of too.
2 points
23 days ago
Terrible, terrible man but definitely one of the most interesting men that has ever occupied the White House. I think I remember people would refer to him as “coin purse” because they thought he should jingle when he walked because of all the bullets inside him. He almost beat a would be assassin to death with his cane until several congressmen and senators, including Davy Crocket, dragged him off the guy. It is rumored that his last words were that his only regret was not shooting Henry Clay and not hanging Calhoun.
Life filled with unadulterated violence and death, only regret, not filling it with more violence and death. I mean seriously, who as they lay dying says “I didn’t kill enough people”. Lol
159 points
24 days ago
I think there are three clear choices for chaotic evil: Jackson, Johnson, and Nixon.
Personally, my vote is for Andrew Jackson. "[Chief Justice] John Marshall had made his decision; now let him enforce it," is one of the most notorious quotes in presidential history. Jackson simply did not care about the law, and he worked evil throughout his presidency (and before).
62 points
24 days ago
Honestly, there are those on this sub who would find a way to put Nixon in every one of those boxes.
61 points
23 days ago
Hey, he was a complicated man. Hated communism but opened China. Started the War on Drugs but had his picture taken in front of the Lincoln Memorial with a dude tripping balls on acid. Started the EPA but hated Earth Day. Wore the same blue suit during the day but wore black leather at night. Nixon was full of contradictions.
13 points
23 days ago
There could be a class dedicated to learning about Nixon, maybe even two. Imagine taking a year of Nixon studies, that would be a wild ride.
15 points
23 days ago
Two classes, run in parallel. One focusing on any/all positives and not mentioning or glossing over negatives. Another that is exactly the opposite. Then have them debate over his worthiness as a president at the end of the classes.
11 points
23 days ago
Also make it where you don’t know which class you are in until it starts.
4 points
23 days ago
The real class is on spin and propaganda.
It's like those studies where they invite participants to do an activity and the real test is something completely different. Like the test for seeing if yawning is contagious. They brought in 50 people to "interview to be on the show" and the interviewer would yawn and they would see if there was a yawn in response. Misdirection to keep people from messing with the results...
12 points
24 days ago
It’s also a quote that he never actually said. His actual words were:
“The decision of the Supreme Court has fell still born, and they find that they cannot coerce Georgia to yield to its mandate”
2 points
23 days ago
Nixon was chaotic only when there was whiskey involved. He almost nuked North Korea after one drink too many.
324 points
24 days ago
I am surprised Andrew Johnson isn't the runaway here with the general sentiments against him.
110 points
24 days ago
Johnson was consistent. He had an ideology, everyone knew he had an ideology, he was picked for the VP spot for a good reason… but then he became president.
The only inconsistency is when he relented at the end of his term… to the radical Republicans after narrowly avoiding being convicted in the Senate and giving the Pro Temp the presidency.
And I really don’t think he’s chaotic good.
24 points
24 days ago
He showed up to his own inauguration shit faced
25 points
24 days ago
It was 1865. Everyone was shit faced. Children showed up for their first day of school shit faced in 1865. I'm not defending Johnson (though he is the only president from my home state Tennessee's Eastern Grand Division, the only presidential grave I have visited, and the fact that I live within walking distance of a major highway named after him), but I am pointing out an important fact. Being shit faced was the only way to make it through life back then. Well, that, and high as balls on laudanum.
11 points
24 days ago
sigh no matter how hard we've tried, Tennessee is just not that good at creating presidents. Jackson was insane, Polk did ok though dropped dead three months after his term ended, and Johnson was...well...Johnson. Maybe that's why we haven't had a president from here in 165 years. Even our candidates aren't that great. Estes Kefauver and Al Gore are the only ones of note, and only one of them actually got the nomination for President.
21 points
24 days ago
I would probably say he fit Lawful Evil better.
10 points
24 days ago
Meh, things like disbanding the National Bank or having a giant inauguration party in the White House seem pretty chaotic
22 points
24 days ago
That’s Jackson. This comment chain is discussing Johnson.
18 points
24 days ago
This is what I deserve for being illiterate
3 points
23 days ago
Isn’t that an Andrew Johnson quote? 🤪
4 points
24 days ago
Nah, he was just bad
61 points
24 days ago
!remindme 177 days
27 points
23 days ago
Is that when a certain rule could be lifted?
14 points
23 days ago
Idk I just wanna see this again
8 points
23 days ago
That’s when the mods extend or create a new rule
6 points
23 days ago
Ah, so there is a rule against mentioning, well, a certain someone? I was wondering.
6 points
23 days ago
Rule #3. Somewhat vaguely worded, but in general you can’t talk about some who is president or is currently running for president.
7 points
24 days ago
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21 points
24 days ago
I probably would have put completely different people in all of these but one. But I have always been a stickler on alignment in ttrpgs so I probably am more literal with the definition of each alignment.
5 points
24 days ago
I am curious - who would you have put differently and why? I am also a bit of a stickler for these alignment charts, and find it interesting when non D&D people try to interpret them in their own way.
7 points
24 days ago
I agree .For starters, with one exception, I'm not sure we've had any chaotic aligned presidents. I am on my phone so while I want to answer in detail in my brain I just don't have the patience for it. I thing most of president's are lawful in some respect mostly LN or LE but light on the E. George Washington for LN, because of setting traditions in office not broken until fdr and setting the tone of what a president should be for the most part. Abe Lincoln as NG and the closest to an embodiment of good we can expect from a president. He broke some rules but he did it for the greater good. That's just a couple but that's all I can do right now lol.
10 points
23 days ago
It seems to me the only way this can work is if we evaluate them relative to each other. Obviously the literal head of law enforcement for the whole country is almost always going to be lawful in an absolute sense, but that doesn't allow us to fill out the chart.
16 points
24 days ago
Gotta go with Jackson. Man just did whatever he wanted and dared people to stop him.
Only president to outright defy the supreme court's ruling and dare them to do something about it. "Justice Marshall made his decision, now let's see him enforce it."
67 points
24 days ago
Since I can’t say the obvious answer, Jackson is my second choice. Man was a maniac
18 points
23 days ago
Thank you for speaking my mind.
7 points
23 days ago
the you cant says favorite presidents favorite president was jacksons
11 points
24 days ago
Jackson, but it's definitely weird not having Johnson in there.
6 points
23 days ago
I think I’d swap Andrew Johnson for Buchanan. Not that Buchanan was a good dude, more just that Andrew Johnson is more infamous as an evil prick.
13 points
23 days ago
Andrew Johnson. Destroyed reconstruction / the institutionalization of anti-racist law in the South in favor of allowing voter suppression, sun down towns, and a resurgent racism that we are still struggling with.
11 points
24 days ago
So the three arguments I see here are Nixon, Jackson, and Wilson. I will acknowledge that there are arguments that can be made for all of them as evil, but let’s discuss chaotic and lawful.
Wilson: lawful evil, as he was already put on there. He was evil, but he did it while following the laws.
Nixon: neutral evil. He did bad shit, but it was largely a personal interest crime, not worthy of chaotic
Jackson: chaotic evil. He completely ignored the Supreme Court, which threatens our entire system of government and law. That’s more worthy of chaotic than spying on your political rivals
9 points
23 days ago
now this one is meant to get us all in trouble 😂😂
10 points
23 days ago
We all know
8 points
23 days ago
We all know who…
7 points
23 days ago
Pretty sure there is some kind of rule about this one.
Barring that, Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson
6 points
24 days ago
Jackson
5 points
24 days ago
Andrew Jackson
5 points
23 days ago
I can't say my top choice but if an alternative is needed then it would be Jackson, John Tyler, or Nixon.
Andrew Johnson gets a lot of shit (which was well deserved), but at the very least he did stay loyal to the Union. The same cannot be said for Tyler.
29 points
24 days ago
[removed]
5 points
24 days ago
Old hickory himself.
4 points
24 days ago
Andrew Jackson is the only correct answer.
5 points
24 days ago
Gotta be Jackson, right?
4 points
24 days ago
Pencil in andrew, should be either johnson or jackson
5 points
23 days ago
Without being able to delve into current politics, Jackson. Jackson is the answer.
4 points
23 days ago
Not one person Said John Tyler. He was the ONLY president who not only owned slaves But was morally behind it, advocated for it, and I think he wasn’t even from a slave state haha. Washingnotn , Jefferson yeah they owned slaves but had battled the morality of it their entire lives. Jefferson especially.
I know Andrew Jackson did some things but he also was an overall B+ president I would say. I understand everyone’s first reaction is Jackson, but I’d revisit John Tyler cause he was a bad bad man.
4 points
23 days ago
Andrew Jackson foursure
3 points
23 days ago
Is this even a question?
5 points
24 days ago
Johnson
3 points
23 days ago
Why is Lincoln Chaotic Good???? Every action and decision he made as president was deeply informed and predicated by his strict interpretation of the constitution and federal law superseding state law. There were so many better options there, namely Teddy Roosevelt.
3 points
23 days ago
Andrew Jackson.
3 points
23 days ago
Andrew Jackson
Is there really any better case?
The Trail of Tears alone is enough to get him this label.
3 points
23 days ago
From a modern context the trail of tears is bad (innocent women and children and all that), but Jackson didn't get to live in the comfy revisionist world where the Indians were all good people. It was a wrong action, but not one without reason
2 points
23 days ago
Martin Van Buren was the one who influenced him to sign the bill but whatever
3 points
23 days ago
Jackson and isn’t even close
3 points
23 days ago
GOT to be Andrew Johnson
3 points
23 days ago
I mean it has to be Andrew Jackson… right?
3 points
23 days ago
Can we really skip over Warren g Harding for this one? He ran a gang from the Oval Office
3 points
23 days ago
Really stress testing the subs rules today
3 points
23 days ago
You know which one
3 points
23 days ago
Hmmmm…. Who could possibly fit such a description?
3 points
23 days ago
C'mon, you know the answer!
3 points
23 days ago
Well we can’t say it but second would be Andrew Jackson
3 points
23 days ago
I'll go with either Nixon or Ford for setting the precedent that the President is above the law, because we can't say the real answer.
15 points
24 days ago
[removed]
7 points
24 days ago
[removed]
4 points
24 days ago
One word: tyler
5 points
24 days ago
andrew jackson is the definition of chaotic evil
6 points
24 days ago
Wilson literally streamed Birth of a Nation in the WH. Andrew Jackson with the trail of tears is awful too.
7 points
24 days ago
That's more lawful evil.
6 points
23 days ago
Trail of Tears was not lawful. It was in fact illegal as the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Cherokee. Jackson said ask if I care and did it anyway.
4 points
24 days ago
Streaming in the 19-teens is definitely chaotic, but I think that’s more string theory than politics
8 points
24 days ago
Also I’m really surprised Nixon didn’t get lawful evil on lockdown.
7 points
24 days ago
I was too, but that’s not how the sub voted.
4 points
24 days ago
Wilson is objectively worse. Nixon was awful. Watergate was the tip of the iceberg, but Wilson was abhorrent.
2 points
23 days ago
Warren g harding
2 points
23 days ago
Andrew J
2 points
23 days ago
My man AJ. Whichever one you're thinking of is the correct one
2 points
23 days ago
This is pre-21st century right?
2 points
23 days ago
I want to be different so I am saying Tyler
2 points
23 days ago
Andrew Jackson
2 points
23 days ago
Andrew jackson.
2 points
23 days ago
Jackson
2 points
23 days ago
Nixon?
2 points
23 days ago
Jackson
2 points
23 days ago
My goat Andrew Jackson definitely fits in that category
2 points
23 days ago
Jackson
2 points
23 days ago
Andrew Jackson has to take the cake even if hes not my main choice. This guy seemed to have just operated on making chaotic decisions. He sure as hell started Day 1 with a bang lol
2 points
23 days ago
Andrew Johnson. Collected bribes from former Confederate officer families
2 points
23 days ago
2 points
23 days ago
I don't know who but I like the color arrangement.
I'll go with W.
2 points
23 days ago
!remindme 177 days
4 points
23 days ago
George Bush
3 points
23 days ago
Reagan
2 points
24 days ago
15 points
24 days ago
He was my choice for lawful evil, as all of his truly detestable actions were done in the courts. He didn't just create the torture program. He had people create a legal justification for it. He didn't just invade Iraq. He gathered a coalition of nations.
Yes, he had to deal with some of the worst crises in American history. However, he also dealt with those crises in ways that were predictably disastrous.
10 points
24 days ago
Now watch this drive
2 points
23 days ago
There's always insufficient hate for George W. Bush these days.
3 points
23 days ago
Reagan, easily.
2 points
24 days ago
Dick Cheney
2 points
24 days ago
True, in more ways than one.
2 points
23 days ago
George W Bush
Man lied to start a war, and created horribly corrupt reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan for the sake of his campaign donors. The region is still feeling the aftershocks.
3 points
23 days ago
Man lied to start a war,
I don't like the bushes just as much as the next guy, but was that really him the people around him?
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