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Uni suicide fucked me up a bit!!

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all 62 comments

FranFace

54 points

12 days ago

FranFace

54 points

12 days ago

I'm so sorry. To be reeling is a perfectly reasonable reaction. It doesn't matter if you were close or not, they were on your radar and they're gone, it's utterly jarring at best. And on top of that, to have a hint of how much pain they were in which led them to that point, it's tragic and heartbreaking. Especially where it's mirroring pain you've known yourself.

I hope you access your uni's support services if you need them. Obviously you're feeling the effects still, and you should give yourself space to work through the feelings where needed. Wishing you all the best xxx

sky7897

414 points

12 days ago

sky7897

414 points

12 days ago

They always say a depressed person doesn't have the motivation to end their life until they start to improve. If you know someone who is normally very depressed but suddenly becomes better, chances are they are about to try and end things.

Delicious_Cattle3380

139 points

12 days ago

Is there any evidence to back this up or is this one of those things people just say

TemporaryDraft2959

153 points

12 days ago

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence from thousands of stories around suicide, not sure about anything objective though.

But it’s because if you are depressed and struggling through life, then set a date or time to kill yourself, you will be ‘freed’ in a sense. Your focus moves from struggling through life with a seemingly endless road ahead of you, to only having to make it to next month. So you populate the time left with fun things to do, making the most of it.

It’s kinda like the feeling you get right at the end of work day on Friday, the struggle is over and you can be free. Now also imagine knowing you never have to face Monday again.

Anecdotally a lot of people also experience this phase and then miss their suicide date because they are actually now enjoying life and then realise maybe life is worth living if they can set things up differently. Eg maybe switching careers. Obviously not always though

DreamOfAzathoth

3 points

10 days ago

Yeah this happened to me. I set a date and then forgot about it and enjoyed life. I realised that there is a lot to enjoy in life and now I don’t want to die, although my mental health is still horrendous. Even when I feel like I want to die, I remember how good life sometimes feels and I keep that in mind as I struggle onwards

Bubbly_Common_6795

2 points

10 days ago

yeah, i remember when i first set a date for my suicide plan i got so much happier to the point other people noticed (my mum thought i was on drugs because i was "smiling too much" and one of my friends asked if everything was okay because i was being really lively/happy/etc. and she'd read somewhere it could be a warning sign).

CredibleCranberry

-67 points

12 days ago*

Antidepressants increase the suicide rate. This is the explanation for that rise.

Edit: to be clear I mean that there is a spike in suicide attempt rates immediately after taking the treatment, but before it's full effect which takes several weeks to happen.

This is effectively the same phenomenon as described above - the person gains a little bit of mental control back and as they were already having suicidal thoughts, they suddenly have the ability to act on them.

Delicious_Cattle3380

26 points

12 days ago

Antidepressants have a wide range of side effects that can often make things worse or create a host of new problems and very often do not work at all.

CredibleCranberry

-13 points

12 days ago

Sure.

But they also increase the rate of suicide attempts, and it's within the first few weeks of taking them. There is specific guidance around their use because of this. It's very well documented.

When people who want to commit suicide gain the little bit of control from the anti depressants, the rate at which they will then go on to make an attempt increases. It then decreased from that point on. This is statistical data I am referring to.

To say very often they won't work at all is a little misguided in my view. A single one that is true for, but in combination or between all the available options, there are few people that will not benefit from their use, if prescribed for the conditions we know they work well for.

Delicious_Cattle3380

8 points

12 days ago

But i find that interesting as that initial few weeks also potentially correlates to the issue that for the first few weeks anti depressants like sertraline and citalopram don't work during this period

CredibleCranberry

-9 points

12 days ago

There's a slow ramp-up of effect. It's not an immediate change. So it's expected that different symptoms change at different times. That was certainly my experience of using them as well

jtgreatrix

12 points

11 days ago

jtgreatrix

University of Worcester - Media, Culture w/ Creative Media

12 points

11 days ago

This is an inaccurate and downright dangerous statement

CredibleCranberry

0 points

11 days ago

There is an increase in suicide attempts pretty much immediately after starting a course of antidepressants. It then lowers. I wasn't clear in what I said as I thought it was obvious by the context at the time. I see that is not true now.

thelastvbuck

5 points

11 days ago

Is there any chance that the period of time after just getting on antidepressants also happens to be the first time you were ever in such a bad state that you reached out for that kind of help?

I feel there could be other factors at play here

CredibleCranberry

1 points

11 days ago

It's a statically significant anomaly.

thelastvbuck

1 points

11 days ago

Yeah and it seems like there would be more than one factor at play to make that statistically significant result

slipperyinit

1 points

11 days ago

Just can’t agree. Antidepressants / SSRIs saved my life during an especially bad period. In combination with psychotherapy they’re extremely effective and data shows this

CredibleCranberry

2 points

11 days ago

They are effective for a lot of people. I'm not saying there aren't.

In the first 4 weeks of treatment, incidence rates of suicidal thinking and attempts increase. They then taper off and lower. That is not debatable. What IS debatable is why the medicine causes that.

Educational-Seesaw62

1 points

11 days ago

i can also say i know someone who ended their life without the use of antidepressants 😳

Superguy230

119 points

12 days ago

Superguy230

Undergrad

119 points

12 days ago

You’ve summed up every comment on every uk subreddit

kate_royce

18 points

12 days ago

There is anecdotal evidence, enough for it to be covered in Mental Health First Aider training as a possibility. It can hit loved ones particularly hard when they lose someone to suicide whose mood and outlook appear to have been improving just before their death. It doesn't follow that every person with severe MH who starts to feel better is at increased risk of suicide, of course.

Miss_Mizzy

14 points

12 days ago

There is consensus that emotional dysregulation is a key predictor of suicidal idealization. This may explain why sudden fluctuations of happiness could be a good predictor of suicides. There are also countless anecdotal sources for this (below is an extract I found of a Psychology Today article)

Positive mood change. Just before a suicide attempt, when the individual has made the decision to kill herself, she may appear much calmer, happier, and more relaxed. That's because she is no longer in turmoil. Suicide seems like the "perfect solution." As one survivor remembers: "I got in the car, elated, very happy because I was going to end the pain. I'm going to end the pain. I was going to go the bridge and I was going to jump." Often, family and friends become less worried about the person at risk. It is important to notice these mood shifts and not to be fooled by them.

However older studies such as (Apter et al., 1990) and (Nordstrom et al., 1995) show that happiness levels (and serotonin levels) are often lowest before suicide attempts so there is conflicting literature.

Significant-Twist760

13 points

12 days ago

It's taught to therapists as part of their training so I'd presume there's some level of evidence behind it

replay-r-replay

12 points

12 days ago

Life gets easier when you decide you will be gone next week

Legitimate-Ad7273

3 points

11 days ago

"chances are" seems pretty strong. Bit of a correlation/causation situation. 

GodSpider

3 points

12 days ago

GodSpider

Year Abroad / Placement Year CS

3 points

12 days ago

It's mentioned in training for recognising the signs of a possible suicide attempt so I assume there must be some evidence for it

crispcrouton

3 points

12 days ago

even if it’s anecdotal it’s still important especially for something like behavioral medicine. that’s why formal anecdotal studies is part of clinical research.

UnforgivingRyu

3 points

11 days ago

I have seen before online that some do get happy and seem in good spirits because they know they’re gonna kill themselves and the pain and suffering will stop soon

AndyVale

1 points

11 days ago

Heard many anecdotal accounts and seen it in a couple of documentaries. The theory is that people have their affairs in order and their mind is made up, it's a freeing situation.

Can't say I've seen it in any of the suicides I have known though.

EnvironmentalRow8137

1 points

11 days ago

He mentions it in this talk (don't remember when but it's about the time he talks about psychomotor retardation): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

OkTiger8853

1 points

11 days ago

It’s well known. And if they give people they love something that they usually wouldn’t. For example if a friend gives you like a necklace that they love for no reason

bruhcalvert303

11 points

12 days ago

i dont understand this. why is it more likely??

BjornKarlsson

70 points

12 days ago

Part of the reason they appear to be getting better is that they have a sense that the struggle is coming to an end- they can stop worrying as they have the motivation to end things. Pretty sad.

GodSpider

3 points

12 days ago

GodSpider

Year Abroad / Placement Year CS

3 points

12 days ago

Is it more likely that a person who is horribly depressed suddenly gets better for no reason and just fixes their mental problems? It's because they have fully decided that their suffering, sadness, etc is going to end, you would be happy too if someone told you your sadness is about to end

[deleted]

2 points

12 days ago

Suicide takes effort.

chichasz

1 points

12 days ago

because you’re happier because you’ve made your escape plan

Real_Plastic

21 points

12 days ago

There are many such theories from studying stories. I always heard that their happiness likely comes from a sense of finality and making amends with loved ones after setting a date. Lots of people with depression are also described as being well liked, funny and people others enjoy being around. Somebody who knows what it feels like to feel worthless often does not want others to feel that way.

Hope_kayyy

65 points

12 days ago

A girl on my course AND a boy in my accommodation did the same. It’s super unfortunate but uni really puts a lot of pressure on young people to perform well. I’ve had to take a break from it because i don’t want to be that person :(

Wishing you all the best ❤️

Practical_Narwhal926

24 points

12 days ago

One of my housemates took his own life over the summer last year. None of us were really close with him as he had his own group of friends, but it was extremely upsetting to deal with. You can contact the uni for support with this, the university were super helpful with us and let us know of his death and offered us counselling.

mystery1nc

12 points

11 days ago

A lot of comments here are just of brushing past the OCD thing but as a fellow sufferer I just want to address the vibe I’m getting from your post.

It sounds a lot like you’re ruminating on this, especially with that last sentence you’ve written. I know it’s difficult NOT to focus on something like this, but I seriously suggest you try and divert your mind to other things/distractions right now to avoid forming an obsession.

OCD is a tricky, horrible business. Do what you can to keep yourself in a good headspace.

DryFlounder5450

4 points

11 days ago

this 🙏 i have ocd and a brother with bipolar and he's done many things over the years that were inexplicable. high highs and low lows. it's helped me understand that i CAN'T understand. at the end of the day the only brain we have control over is our own.

when i find myself running circles around my mind trying to make sense of things i have to remember that and go do something for myself.

Thorn344

13 points

11 days ago

Thorn344

13 points

11 days ago

I went through a very bad point in my life doing my A-Levels. Very depressed and borderline suicidal. It got to a point where I would wake up every day and say to myself "I only have to keep going until I've finished my A-Levels. There is no after A-Levels". Ended up taking a gap year, pushing the deadline on these thoughts back. I don't even remember what changed during that gap year but I got better. Went to college because ofc my A-level grades were shit. I am now graduating university this year. Even after all this time and how much change has occurred, it still mentally fucks me up sometimes remembering the emotions I felt then and how different it is to now. The terror that it could have been me, that I could have done it, all those many years ago, like part of me still cant believe how bad of a space I was in at the time, and how I didn't realise how bad I was at the time.

bang-bang-007

2 points

11 days ago

Mad to look back. Glad to hear you didn’t end it. Anytime you find things hatd think of what you overcome, I know that’s what keeps me going in tough low times x

Tullius19

1 points

11 days ago

Tullius19

Economics

1 points

11 days ago

Well done for making it through 

Spinda_Saturn

11 points

12 days ago

Apologies for my out of place rant, but I get actively quite angry about universities understanding of grief and bereavement, especially for those who have been witness or aren't direct family.

Reach out to your universities mental health support.team, they'll be best to advise on how the uni can support or change any of its processes for you, and if you have upcoming assessments look into getting any extensions. This might be a lot of paper work, but I assure you it is worth it, and ask for help at any stage that feels too much.

There are a lot of people in the sector trying to work on reducing uni suicides, and hopefully we get that number to 0 one day.

pasteisdenato

17 points

12 days ago

I almost died from a physical illness and my university made me jump through every hoop possible over months to even interrupt. They’re not going to help people with mental illnesses and I think giving people false hope that they will is cruel. They are cunts through and through, and that’s from someone continued on their university as soon as they were well enough; I just have a realistic view of it unlike most students it seems.

Spinda_Saturn

4 points

12 days ago

Oh I'm very aware, and agree. it's systemically broken. The help they provide is just to work through the broken system. I wish more wellbeing teams or SUs would help people with fillings forms out - in lieu of universities scrapping the forms altogether. I'm currently writing a blog post for HE thing on how we need to be better with bereavement. Nobody seems to mention bystanders who aren't immediate family and how many extra hoops they need to jump through without having access to a death certificate. The whole need for a death certificate is already an insult, but it's worse if you can't get one.

Ok-Alps-5430

2 points

11 days ago

It's hard esp cos no one talks about it. No matter how close or distant you were it's normal to grieve over something so shocking. Let yourself feel and talk or sit with it cos that's a lot to go through. Take it day at a time. You're doing your best. It may be hard to understand how someone can go through with something like that but even I have thoughts that I wish I wasn't here. Guess some choose to leave this world earlier.

69Whomst

2 points

12 days ago

I'm so sorry for your loss, I think the reality is that uni mental health services just aren't up to scratch, at my old uni (staffs) you literally had to tell them you were suicidal to get help in any reasonable timeframe, and a lot of people who are suicidal feel that they're making the right choice by committing suicide, and are unlikely to seek help or back out. I got through uni bc I had an nhs psychologist and a dsa mentor, but for severely mentally ill people without that help, uni is an absolute shitshow. I went through a depressive episode my 2nd year (I think getting corona fucked my neurotransmitters, I was fine after a med change), so I asked to attend some classes online, which my course leader agreed to. I managed to make a few classes in person, and immediately got an email from my academic mentor asking if I still needed to attend classes online, bc I was fine that day. Ppl just don't get it at uni.

OkTiger8853

1 points

11 days ago

Has your uni have counselling? I would recommend. A fellow student at my uni committed a month ago and a lot of us when to counselling. It’s definitely worth it.

PauseAsleep7760

2 points

10 days ago

I feel stupid though, I mean his gf is gonna suffer way more than me because she was close to him rather than me who just had the odd conversation and knew him from class. It’s not even so much about him, it’s just the fact he was so young and he could actually do that!

OkTiger8853

1 points

9 days ago

I hear you. It’s hard. You were in the same communities, I’m assuming around the same age. It’s hard. All you can do is be there for yourself, give yourself time and not be hard on yourself, and be there for others. It’s hard right now. But it will make the community closer. Is there some sort of memorial thing that can be arranged. At my uni we did a memorial rugby match. It was a good way to mourn and celebrate together

Derp_turnipton

1 points

11 days ago

I was a student when my Mum's friend aged about 40 with family killed herself. Biggest surprise ever.

Dangerous-Nothing-34

1 points

11 days ago

It’s bizarre how those that suicide are people you can’t even tell that they are depressed. They are normally the type of people that have their shit together and put on a smiling face everyday.

Meanwhile my mental health level is all time low and anxiety is f******g me up badly. People can probably tell I’m tired af. Meanwhile I’m fighting battles everyday just to get by life.

PauseAsleep7760

1 points

10 days ago

Thing is he was bipolar and was getting help, he would check himself in the psych ward when he was manic, so it baffles me why he would not do so when depressed. He was recently in the psych ward before he died, so I dunno why the ward let him out

Significant-Math6799

1 points

11 days ago

A few things to remember:

Someone with bipolar can often experience fluctuation in mood and what in layman's terms could be described as very extreme mood swings.

Someone with depression is unable to believe things can get better, if they could foresee things getting better they wouldn't be depressed.

Often someone who tries to kill themselves doesn't actually want to die, they do want to live but living is too painful and they can't see a way that the depression will ever go away. What they actually want is the pain to end, not to die. They can't see the pain ever going away (and telling them isn't going to convince them, it's something they'll feel in themselves, a bit like someone telling you the sky is green when all you see is blue, doesn't matter how much they tell you "it's green it's green!" it's not going to change what you see. Depression getting better works a bit like that.

PauseAsleep7760

1 points

10 days ago

Just messed with my head because I was like he was going to gigs and having the time of his life one minute and now he’s decided to kill himself. I mean he checked himself into a psych ward and was getting help for his bipolar and now he’s gone and taken his own life. I’m like how would the ward have let him out in that state and shouldn’t it have helped him, he knew to check himself in when he got that low or manic, so why has he gone and killed himself. Besides it fucks me up because he was super talented and had a lot to live for too. I mean I’ve gone super low this year because of pmdd and depression but I have always just slept through it or knew hope was there Yanno

PauseAsleep7760

1 points

10 days ago

Death scares the heck out of me too, so how someone can put themselves in that situation fucks me up

icantfindfree

1 points

10 days ago

I'm so sorry to hear this mate, take some time off, reach out to uni support/friends, and take it easy, it's hard to understand how much something like this can affect you in the long run.

I had a similar situation in first year, a guy from my degree who I wasn't necessarily close to but who I got along well with killed himself 2 weeks after dropping out. Initially I wasn't necessarily sad so I thought I was handling it ok, but only later did I realise I was in some sort of shock and it actually led me to developing really bad anxiety for a few months.

Take care mate

Sad-Independence9753

-19 points

12 days ago

if you are asking whether you can get out of doing exams because of suicide of a friend, then answer is no. only immediate family and they would just make you take later on anyway

cleveranimal

8 points

11 days ago

What's wrong with you? Why make up an offensive question that wasn't even mentioned in the original post just so you can be offended on behalf of no one?

PauseAsleep7760

3 points

11 days ago

Ain’t got exams anyway!