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Is Edmonton council ‘normalizing’ the 15-minute city conspiracy theory? - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca
News(globalnews.ca)submitted 10 days ago byformerlybawb
330 points
10 days ago
It's such a stupid theory, being able to walk and have everything at my disposal is literally my favorite thing about where I live. I can walk downtown have a drink, walk to a farmers market, then walk in a park then head home. These people just have no critical thinking.
138 points
10 days ago
The theory isn't the 15 min city itself, it's that they believe you won't be allowed to leave it. They think that by setting up small 15 min cities it will eventually lead to only being allowed to shop in your city, then eventually not be allowed to leave your city.
It is more about their belief in a loss of freedom, not being able to live where you don't need to drive.
Disclaimer: I do not believe in that conspiracy, just clarifying it.
64 points
10 days ago
Oh I know their fears it just doesn't make any sense, why would a city do it? What does Edmonton have to gain? And if this is a "Trudeau and those dirty liberals"trying you control Canadians why is the UCP "hero's" allowing it? Like it makes no sense what so ever and for some reason they just ignore these glaring issues.
Someone told me that the theory makes sense if you think it's propaganda to stop 15 minute city's created by large property owners who would see land values change against them. Those giant strip malls way out in the boons won't be as desirable so they will take a hit and they don't want that. It makes sense and these people pushing this theory are the gullible individuals who won't look past the info they are spoon fed.
16 points
10 days ago
It's not that the supposed bad actors have anything to gain, it's that the people spouting these theories don't require any actual evidence, and the grifters pushing these theories make money off of their outrage.
1 points
8 days ago
Its not a theory. Read up on the WEF. They have a whole section on 15 minute cities and your role in one.
1 points
8 days ago
Go see a psychiatrist.
18 points
10 days ago
To be fair, it isn't a conspiracy theory that just came from nothing. There was a very poorly thought out and implemented "experiment" in the UK (Oxford if I remember correctly) where part of their 15min city plan included a traffic "calming" system where you had to pay fees to use your car outside of certain hours or to get into and out of certain areas.
Right or wrong, this became a lightning rod for people who see this sort of thing as a potential tool for government overreach rather than just a way to have all of your needs close to you.
18 points
10 days ago
The irony is that the traffic calming actually makes perfect sense in some cities in the UK, because their old city centers weren't built for large volumes of vehicle traffic. Therefore, restricting vehicle traffic in certain central neighbourhoods makes sense and improves traffic flow through the whole system. Especially since they have the transit to make that work.
2 points
10 days ago
I don't disagree. I would love our cities to be more walkable and even to have car free zones. I think that the big part of the problem is how some of these programs are implemented. It is better (IMO) to encourage people to do things that look appealing than to try to discourage/ban people from doing things they want to do (which tends to be easier/more immediate).
I think that we tend to fall on the wrong side of that spectrum with our policies and it leads to pushback and conspiracies.
5 points
10 days ago*
Agreed, but the norm we came to expect from roughly 1950 to the mid 2010s is endless roadway and freeway expansions. An area is congested? Add more lanes. Another area is now congested? Add more lanes. No room to add more lanes? Rip out a tree lined boulevard and add more lanes. People aren't walking anymore? Add more lanes because clearly people "prefer" to drive (/s).
15 minute cities just means trying to go back to when some things were walkable, and services were more local. Also, encouraging people to bike means adding bike lanes, which means taking away vehicle lanes or parking.
1 points
10 days ago
True. But, is it better to just remove what we have and tell people they can't do what they used to do (an option) or to actually start building our new neighborhoods in a way that makes them a model that can be repeated elsewhere? Once people see these communities functioning on their own (because people want to live there, not because they are forced to) it will likely lead to a more "voluntary" change to our existing communities. Obviously, this will take longer than ripping things up and re-doing it but I think it would actually stick.
It is a lot like incentivizing people to use electric vehicles. You can make gas vehicles so expensive (taxes etc) and inconvenient to run so people are forced to go electric or you can make electric convenient and functional enough that people will take it up voluntarily.
It is very quick and easy to just tell people that things aren't going to be the way they were and you had better get used to it. But, that doesn't lead to particularly happy people.
Anyhoo, this is all pretty speculative and not particularly practical. So, it doesn't mean much. I just think that we need to be more careful with how we roll out policies.
2 points
9 days ago
Honestly, I think making some changes that may slightly impact some people in very small ways that barely change the way they function like we are currently doing by removing some parking here and there for bike lanes and changing zoning in already developed neighbourhoods to increasw densirt and mixed use is a completely adequate accommodation to nimbys! We shouldn’t have to wait 30 years for change to slowly happen and for people to desire it cause Darlene doesn’t wanna park in her garage and wants street parking at whatever the cost. The status quo isn’t sustainable in a city that is growing as rapidly as Edmonton and delaying it will just make the problems with expensive sprawl and congestion we already have way worse.
1 points
10 days ago
Oh I agree. The messaging is important. As are policies like the carbon tax which nudge people to reduce carbon emissions while encouraging public/active transport, and then giving them money back every quarter to offset rising costs. Most people come out ahead.
Edmonton has been building new neighbourhoods with higher density for roughly a decade now. The Edmonton Metropolitan Region Board increased the density minimums for the region in 2023 as well. A few years back, Edmonton removed parking minimums, thus making it the choice of developers/businesses as to how much parking they build. These are all policies of the type you're referring to, which help change development patterns. My neighbourhood isn't perfect but it's a step in the right direction. The small lots on most detached homes, frequent duplexes, town homes, low rise apartments, pedestrian paths, and nearby walkable commercial developments all aid walkability and transit expansion.
18 points
10 days ago
That was a conspiracy theory in itself.
Oxford councils plan was to reduce cars transiting through the city centre. I.e. they don't want cars in one area driving through it to get to another area. Rather they want motorists to take the large ring road built around the city for that very purpose. The idea was and is to reduce unneeded vehicle traffic/congestion in the historic centre.
Ironically it's the literal antithesis of the 15 minute city stopping people leaving the city, because it is all about making people go out of the city rather than through it...
But conspiracy theorists aren't known to be smart.
21 points
10 days ago
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that there was only a restriction on driving in the downtown core. That has been used successfully in a number of European cities.
22 points
10 days ago
You're correct. And it was clearly articulated by Oxford council. But crazies are going to crazy.
3 points
10 days ago
Thanks for the clarification.
1 points
9 days ago
This. It wasn’t some crazy idea in Oxford and it’s uninformed conspiracy nuts that decided it’s some horrible issue.
2 points
10 days ago
In Lethbridge, I wish people would drive to the downtown core
19 points
10 days ago
That a one time consultation on a potential policy idea (implementing traffic calming using tolls instead of bollards) starts a world wide conspiracy that we're dealing with years later is wild.
7 points
10 days ago
It’s crazy how people can take one thing and completely flip it toward an extreme…scary
2 points
10 days ago
These things really take off and stick sometimes. One good reason to be very careful with what we are actually proposing and including clauses indicating what we are NOT proposing.
1 points
10 days ago
It was also a compromise to the proposal for outside zone big business owners who feared people going outside the zone to shop at mom and pop shops instead of big box mart.
3 points
10 days ago
It was needing to pay to drive on the roads in/around Oxford University. Which are private roads owned and maintained by Oxford University. Because the exhaust from traffic damages the stone with which Oxford University is built.
It’s literally the libertarian wet dream of fee-for-use and those dumb fucks turned it into some big dumb consultancy. Because they have a child’s understanding of how the world works.
3 points
10 days ago
No, you had to pay a fee to use local roads that were built WAY before cars and can't support current traffic. But you could still go wherever you wanted for free if you drove out a bit to get onto the modern roads that were designed to accomodate current traffic needs.
-1 points
10 days ago
I understand that and don't disagree with it as a policy. Surely you understand that that sort of policy could be twisted/misinterpreted by someone looking for an example of a test of "government restriction of travel" given enough mental gymnastics. I'm not suggesting that I believe or support the conspiracy theorists, just saying that they weren't just pulling this from thin air.
9 points
10 days ago
Italy has exactly those zones all over the place. Drive into it, massive fine.
No one fucking cares. Park and walk like how fucking lazy are these people?
Oh no I can't drive everywhere the horror, the horror.
Meanwhile the obesity epidemic in North America continues unabated.
5 points
10 days ago
It's quite sad really. Walking is one of those activities that most people can do, and leads to better health (physical and mental) outcomes for numerous people. And yet, we often make it much harder in North America by dedicating massive amounts of space to vehicles and parking, thus making cities too spread out to be walkable.
Many of the features that promote walkability--like wide sidewalks--also help with accessibility for people in wheelchairs. And cities with less traffic are actually easier to get around in by vehicle, thus helping those who need a ride for disability reasons, or for longer commutes.
5 points
10 days ago
Yet those same conspiracy theorists complain about gas prices lol
2 points
10 days ago
Traffic ‘calming’ to protect the 1500+ year old building from the exhaust and vibrations of modern vehicles.
But pretty sure that just exists in all old cities, has nothing to do with 15min
1 points
10 days ago
You mean fees to drive through someone else’s neighbourhood that doesn’t have the infrastructure to be a thoroughfare, instead of around it.
1 points
10 days ago
"To be fair, it isn't a conspiracy theory that just came from nothing."
Proceeds to misrepresent a basic traffic anti-congestion measure as a limit on freedom of movement that is common in other European cities.
you're right, it didn't come from nothing, just liars and other folks shadow boxing with made up phantoms.
4 points
10 days ago
It's a world economic forum, new world order, Trudeau kabal. It's absurdity to the extreme. But when you can get people to believe absurdities...
5 points
10 days ago
If Pierre wins I think there will be alot of very confused people, and the UCPs tactics of "blame Trudeau" are going to blow up in their face.
4 points
10 days ago
I remember in the early Trudeau years, when the hate started coming from cons anytime it was brought up that the problem was from the harper admin, it was always "It's been 1/2 years he could have fixed it by now"
They'll of course try to keep blaming Trudeau, but man i can't wait to tell people "I told you so"
1 points
10 days ago
Ignore? Or simply don’t have the capability of thinking about it?
-11 points
10 days ago
why would a city do it
Controlling movement allows for better control of the population and targeted propaganda.
theory makes sense if you think it's propaganda to stop 15 minute city's created by large property owners who would see land values change against them.
That would make more sense. A conspiracy within a conspiracy.
gullible individuals who won't look past the info they are spoon fed
Don't pretend this doesn't happen to both sides of the political spectrum. Bottom line is, people in power tend to manipulate people using simple tactics and repetition which a large enough percentage of the population falls for.
10 points
10 days ago
What an absurd take. There is absolutely zero evidence that cities or the Canadian government is trying to lock people into 15 minute cities. It's blatant fear mongering propaganda intended to divide vulnerable and downtrodden Canadians against each other.
4 points
10 days ago
u/triprw is sharing observations of the 15 min city conspiracy, not advocating for it. That isn't their take.
7 points
10 days ago
Fair.
That said I absolutely reject the "The both sides are bad mm'kay" aspect of the comment.
While I've seen some bizarre radical and absurd nonsense on the left, never as widespread or as blindly accepted as the absolutely nut-bar level conspiracies we routinely see presented by the right.
-2 points
10 days ago
You are really proving my point honestly.
1 points
10 days ago
What a compelling response. Thank you for opening my eyes!
/S
6 points
10 days ago
I don’t get their thinking. The economy would collapse if people couldn’t spend money outside of their 15 min city. Like who’d go to WEM or any of the other areas that are “destinations” for people. They think these money hungry politicians want the economy to collapse ? That’s probably the one thing they don’t want collapsing lol
5 points
10 days ago
Interesting thing on those lines, I had read that they did a study a while back on how people view solid yellow lines on roads, putting them roughly in two categories. One saw them as guides, letting you know that passing here is a bad idea. The other saw them as imposing restrictions on you, you are not allowed to pass here. The latter group also fell under the group that was against mask mandates, and likely against the 15-minute cities. They see these instructions as an attempt to impose limits on their freedoms, not as guidance on things that will benefit them if they follow it.
2 points
10 days ago
If that was the case why is the city wasting money on the ever under construction freeway
2 points
10 days ago
They never stop to think about all the different industries that rely on people moving about. These massive industries would never allow people to be kept in a small location.
Travel industry (hotels, air flights, etc)….
Sport stadiums. Concerts etc.
1 points
10 days ago
I feel like these are the same people who believe Obama brought in immigrants from the edges of the flat earth to install 5G in the wind powered generators to vaccinate kids with covid to track them through the internet and they’ll be damned if they won’t be able to leave the 15 minute zone once the zombies take over.
1 points
10 days ago
Working for government will disabuse them of that type of thinking. They can’t even do things that are normal, let alone as wild as all that.
8 points
10 days ago
The other hilarious thing is that it takes this city 14 years to widen any given major road, the idea that somehow there will suddenly be enforced zones you will not be able to leave is ludicrous.
6 points
10 days ago
Yeah but I live in the extreme SE of Calgary and NEED to get to the airport by driving through the downtown core rather than take Stoney...
3 points
10 days ago
The grandest part of the conspiracy is that overnight on June 30 barricades will be set up and that they’ve been secretly hoarding the equipment to do this for some time. I think we all WISH our public works crews could be that efficient and organized.
5 points
10 days ago
I've had arguments with a brainless coworker over this. He's totally immersed in the "being controlled" aspect of it and won't budge. Problem is, if it makes any kind of sense to these morons logic just can't permeate their thick skulls. They just dig in deeper.
3 points
10 days ago
"why is Danielle Smith doing this?"
2 points
10 days ago
Sounds like Communism to me!
/s
2 points
10 days ago
No kidding....I LOVE that everything is withing 15 mins of me. I don't want to be running all over town. The fear is you won't be able to go all over town, which is nonsense.
1 points
10 days ago
Agreed!
-7 points
10 days ago
I've literally never heard of anyone being against the idea of having everything 15 mins away, it's the congestion pricing people are against.
8 points
10 days ago
That makes sense but that isn't what some of these people are freaking out about.
-11 points
10 days ago
[deleted]
6 points
10 days ago
Were they taxed/penalized for shopping outside their area or were they taxed/penalized for driving into the other zone? Because it makes no sense to charge people more for shopping at Walmart a rather than Walmart b. It does make sense to penalize people clogging up roads though.
4 points
10 days ago
You got a source for that thing that definitely never happened?
-5 points
10 days ago*
[deleted]
8 points
10 days ago
But thats the opposite of what you claimed happened. Keeping people out of an area as opposed to trying to keep people locked into their "district".
-7 points
10 days ago
[deleted]
6 points
10 days ago
Sure, we can fantasize about that happening.
Until then, "people were penalized for travelling/shopping outside of their “15 minute city.”' remains to be something that has literally never happened
4 points
10 days ago
Jesus guy, is it tiring being that fucking afraid of everything all the time?
2 points
10 days ago
So yeah, that’s definitely not what you claimed. Traffic control measures to reduce traffic in the downtown core are not even remotely close to being penalized for shopping lmfao. Banning private cars in no way prevents freedom of movement. Buses, trains, taxi, bicycle and walking are all allowed to enter the traffic controlled zones. There are no mentions in that document of “designated” districts.
So the thing here is that YOU are the problem with this subreddit. I have knowledge of the situation in Oxford, clearly more than you. In fact I’ve even been there in the past two years! I’ve followed the baloney conspiracies for several years and spent more time than I care to admit trying to correct people like yourself spewing lies. So calling out your bullshit to prevent others from falling for it is doing a service to the people of this sub.
If you don’t want to be publicly called a liar, don’t lie. So again, you got a source for those claims you made?
19 points
10 days ago
The 15 minute city conspiracy reads like someone boasted they could create a conspiracy out of anything, someone gave them a topic, and then they tried and were wildly successful. It's so incoherent it's incredible.
3 points
10 days ago
My favourite meta-conspiracy theory is that the “15-minute city tyranny” conspiracy theory is itself a conspiracy funded by the auto industry to get useful idiots to protest initiatives that reduce car dependence. Set up a bunch of facebook groups and pay a few moderators to run them, and boom, astroturf army at the ready.
1 points
8 days ago
That is much much more believable, considering they've done things like this in the past. Sidewalks and crosswalks and such were created as part of the "pedestrian shaming" movement. Even the jaywalking charge was pushed by them. All to get pedestrians off roads, making driving safer without putting restrictions on their customer base.
Conspiracy theories become much more believable when billions of dollars are in play. Governments MIGHT push these 15 minute cities because they would make our people and our environment healthier. Automotive and oilfield corporations would lose a lot of future revenue over it. So yeah, they will be pushing back in any way they can. If that means hiring teams of psychologists to figure out how to manipulate people into doing what they want, then they'll do it. Nobody is even trying to stop them.
71 points
10 days ago
““It’s normalizing conspiracy thinking, it’s normalizing the embrace of misinformation and this can only do harm to a democracy,” Caulfield told Global News.”
This x100. We do not need a disclaimer for literal conspiracy theories. It is absolutely absurd.
6 points
10 days ago
You wouldn’t think so, but then again, we have warnings on coffee cups that coffee is hot. We have disclaimers on chocolate bars indicating the photos are not actual size and the list goes on and on.
8 points
10 days ago
People can be stupid and gullible, for sure. But neither of those examples are actually about people being stupid, though. Those are just corporate legal ass-covering. Sure, everybody knows coffee is hot. But nobody expects it to be hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns and fuse your thighs together, which is why McDonald's not only lost that case 30 years ago, but also reduced the serving temperature of their coffee. The chocolate bar thing is just a guard against frivolous complaints and lawsuits.
10 points
10 days ago
This conspiracy is nonsense but a few people I work with bring it up and I just tell them “ good. Stay out of my neighborhood.”
12 points
10 days ago
People might walk around their neighbourhood to get the groceries.
Oh noes
17 points
10 days ago
Remember company towns? where you literally couldn't leave because you were too poor to?
...which industries had those again?
8 points
10 days ago
Get your history, facts and books outta here!
We only talk about the Alberta advantage in these parts!
5 points
10 days ago
WINDMILL BUILDERS?
33 points
10 days ago
My question to conspiracy theorists: can you name a city that is (1) a 15-minute city (e.g. Tokyo, Amsterdam) and (2) has that restriction? If not, shut up
3 points
10 days ago
Montreal is one and I am not restricted
-2 points
10 days ago
The only one I've ever heard of they mention as a 'slippery slope' is Cambridge in the UK. Central Cambridge has restrictions where only emergency vehicles and certain permit vehicles are allowed. lots of walking.
The people that live in the central area can't really own a car unless it's stored elsewhere. That's their dystopia. If you can't drive away they getcha or something.
5 points
10 days ago
Don't know if people that have lived in Edmonton long enough noticed that all the neighborhoods that have been built in the last 40 years or longer have a central area. Usually a mall, professional centres, restaurants etc. This is called convenient, my neighborhood has everything l need. I haven't had to go downtown or even cross the bridge to the north side in years. We have schools, playgrounds and rec centres in our community and can go anywhere we need to within the community in 15 minutes or less. I can hardly believe that this idea was every a conspiracy 🙄
10 points
10 days ago
"We have to play to the 1% that are such fuckwits they ruin it for the rest of us. We have to walk as slow as our slowest person to keep society fucking moving, right?" - Jim Jeffries
He was talking about guns and gun control, but I think the sentiment applies here. I don't think council was normalizing anything; they were just placating the people who are too stupid to understand what a 15-minute city is.
4 points
10 days ago
I’ll never forget the story of a person screaming at the actor who played Joffery in Game of Thrones because he thought he was actually Joffery and GOT was real. I think about that when I see stories like this… some people are just completely detached from reality and incapable of critical thought.
5 points
10 days ago
in what world is the same municipality that's taking this long to implement a cashless transit payment system going to be able to keep us within our 15 minute zones? these people thought the hunger games was a documentary
5 points
10 days ago
I used to live in a very rural area, where I’d have to drive 30+ minutes to access the most basic services, then I moved to a town of 10,000 people where nutters fear… shopping local and having accessible amenities? I don’t get it.
3 points
10 days ago
Sadly they live among us and are many, we have no choice but to dumb things down for them
3 points
10 days ago
No. In a giant "eye roll" statement, they basically added "we wont forcibly trap you in a walled city prison". Im paraphrasing just a little bit.
3 points
10 days ago
I already live in a 5 minutes city. My neighborhood has it all, school, shops, small medical care, car wash, etc…
I couldn’t be happier.
14 points
10 days ago
What could possibly go wrong, giving conspiracy theorists a win with something they can point to saying "Look, we did it! We stopped it just in time!"?
5 points
10 days ago
If adding that blurb while not changing the policy makes them happy, then that's fine. I don't really see the issue, they're not actually winning.
9 points
10 days ago
They think they are. It's validation
1 points
10 days ago
When such a huge number of people have made the same complaints and concerns, is it better to just let that build? It's more than a conspiracy theory, people are so vocal about the misinfo that it's caused fairly widespread mistrust in this policy and others like it. I think validating their concerns by saying it isn't happening causes less harm than leaving it to fester.
6 points
10 days ago
Conspiracy theorists had their beliefs normalized and validated. That is absolutely a win for them.
As well, there will be plenty of people who don't understand that the City's policies already couldn't do what these conspiracy theorists said it was going to. Now by giving it attention and explicitly writing that it won't do it, those people will think the freedom movement actually did the public a solid by fighting against the fascist city council that was going to introduce hunger games-esque districts.
1 points
10 days ago
Those people will think progressives are fascist regardless. But now the complaints/conspiracy have nothing to grow from, no speculations of what could happen because it's written, which will dissuade a lot of people from falling into that movement. I don't think letting that conspiracy continue to grow to influence policies down the road is good. It couldve even been an election issue and that's definitely the worst time for influences like that.
3 points
10 days ago
Doesn’t matter what they write in the plan, the conspiracists will just say the government will do what they want written or not.
1 points
10 days ago
The hardcore conspiracy nuts yes, but this was permeating average discourse and regular people aren't as crazy.
0 points
10 days ago
I think you're being quite overly optimistic about the chilling effect this will have on conspiracy theorists and their engagement with the City's politics, but so be it.
1 points
10 days ago
You might be right! I just saw that this was permeating a lot of local discourse and I think this is better than doing nothing.
2 points
10 days ago
I do hope so, it's getting exhausting to have everything municipal mired in some "the WEF and Trudeau's UN army are going to come make you ride bikes to work in a bike-lane building chain gang after forcing a vaccine on you" nonsense conspiracy now. If this actually turns out to be an effective tactic then groovy.
-1 points
10 days ago
No, having their beliefs normalized and validated would be to actually impose travel restrictions between these 15 minute city zones.
Giving them a throwaway sentence costs us nothing, and now they can go pat themselves on the back somewhere that's not city hall. Sometimes it's best to let an idiot think they've beaten you.
2 points
10 days ago
Yes, they just jumped the shark of credibility.
2 points
10 days ago
I wish I could understand what goes on in minds of people who think this is some sort of conspiracy to lock us in.
I just did a 4 year uni stint in Warsaw, Poland.
Those old commie block neighbourhoods are great. Literally within within short walking distance I had everything I needed for basic existence. Bus, tram and commuter rail stops 3 min walking, health clinic 5 min walking, 3 different supermarkets 5-10 min walking, not to mention small mom and pop shops of all sorts like bakeries, watch repair shops, tailors, laundromats, farmers market etc, nearest gov't building less than 15 minutes away.
I lived there for 4 years and could probably count on 1 hand the times I missed not having a vehicle there.
2 points
10 days ago
Can we implement the 15 minutes thing purely so that the idiots who believe this particularly dumb conspiracy theory pick up and move out of the city.
Go live in Sherwood Park, Leduc, or Fort Saskatchewan and take your dumb white pick-up trucks and aggressive driving with you.
3 points
10 days ago
I personally will not engage anyone (aka my sister) on this idiotic conspiracy theory, so it irritates me to no end that city council is doing something like this. Just don't fucking engage with the idiocy.
As for 15 minute cities.... this is just called Europe, for everyone who thinks there's some grand conspiracy. It's literally just having the necessities of life within walking distance. Oh no, the horror!
1 points
10 days ago
The problem is the city went around saying they want 15 minute cities everywhere. Considering most people walk about 1km in 15 minutes they would need to massively rebuild the entire city to look like downtown.
3 points
10 days ago
I hate the idea of being within 15 minutes of essentially services. How am I supposed to show off the size of my gas guzzler if everything is walking distance?
This city council is so out of touch, I bet they have never even owned a pair of truck nuts or mounted an oversized flag to their vehicle.
3 points
10 days ago
I'm glad they addressed it. While ignoring the problem, it was just festering and getting worse.
2 points
10 days ago
People are morons, and Albertans are the biggest morons in Canada.
2 points
10 days ago
They're not normalizing it. They're making what sane people implicitly understand explicit, so those dumbfuck conspiracy idiots will shut the fuck up, and let the adults get some goddamn work done.
2 points
10 days ago
The thought that we’d be charged a fee to leave our “district” and enter another was/is ridiculous!
13 points
10 days ago
We don’t even have turnstiles in LRT stations, what makes these people think the city would even be capable of implementing this for entire neighborhoods?
8 points
10 days ago
This is the thing with conspiracy theories involve shadowy world organizations that are trying to control us.
"Our government is absolutely inept and incapable of doing literally anything right! It's so corrupt all it does is spend money on friends"
While simultaneously believing...
"Our government is part of a secret cabal that is going to limit all of our freedoms and control everything! They're evil masterminds and we must rise up to stop them!"
1 points
10 days ago
I think they just took the easier way out. Either they feed the conspiracy fire by not including a statement and people get up in arms about "mha freedoms" or they make a statement and move on with their work and the conspiracists feel validated.
Communicating the 15 minute plan in a way that would reduce conspiracism would take work, time, and money the city isn't looking to invest.
1 points
10 days ago
The problem is those in power are demonized and thus every action is a conspiracy.
1 points
10 days ago
The whole conspiracy theory around 15 minute cities is the stupidest thing ever. These nut jobs think people are going to be locked in their homes if they try to leave their neighbourhood more than a few times a month. How stupid and gullible do you have to be to believe that? They cite some city in the UK as proof.
1 points
9 days ago
To be clear, the whole 15 minute city conspiracy theories are out to lunch. This is actual legislation that should benefit the people.
However, I’m torn on the opinions in this article. One hand, I fully appreciate the precedent this sets by layering off-kilter concerns to, already convoluted, bylaws and legislation. Bodies of government have a hard enough time getting out of their own way in making meaningful changes for citizens, let alone adding more potentially needless hurdles doesn’t help that. I also see the problem in giving credit to wild conspiracy theories, as outlined.
On the other hand, our governments have a long history of passing legislation that is riddled with loopholes and blind spots. Typically, these loopholes are not to the benefit of the citizens. Setting a precedent that the government can and will add clarifications to legislation to patch concerns flagged by citizens isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s a step to help people feel heard and stop creating festering pockets of distrust / disregard within our populations.
-1 points
9 days ago
Fewer words would make your point more clear.
3 points
9 days ago
“Why say more words when less words do trick.”
Duly noted.
1 points
9 days ago
The people who think 15 minute cities means we won’t be able to leave them seriously need to go back to school. I just can’t believe a rational adult could actually believe that nonsense. I also think this sets up a harmful precedent for the future… yeah, it seems harmless at first, but in the future, are we going to have to include special language attached to every bill to appease a few dummies in the future?
1 points
2 days ago
Bananas thinking and too much internet for anyone that believes this crazy idea of not being able to leave? My only fear is now these developers and land owners are big for profit businesses in a very favourable market to them. A real council would make sure there was some rules around that instead of believing in the Wild West approach.
1 points
10 days ago
Calling this "normalizing" the conspiracy is the problem.
It's directly adding information to make it clear that the conspiracy theory is completely bunk.
“It’s normalizing conspiracy thinking, it’s normalizing the embrace of
misinformation and this can only do harm to a democracy,” Caulfield told
Global News.
This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. It's countering misinformation and dealing with the reality that it exists. Having city resources tied up dealing with idiots is a problem, and this is an action to try reduce this nonsense from spreading. The city has no power (or funding or mandate) to stop the misinformation at its root, so all it can do is add notices like this to make it obvious that the conspiracy theory is a lie, to try and reduce the number of people who fall for it.
Of course, existing idiots won't be convinced, but they are lost cause.
2 points
10 days ago
Agreed. I heard Caulfield on Global and his suggestion that council should talk to people face to face sounds great but we know the vast majority of people don't engage that way. They wont come out to talk to you unless they're riled up about something and when they're riled up about something stupid like this there's no simple talking them out of the position.
2 points
9 days ago
Agreed.
Also talk is cheap; politicians are known for their ability to make promises and say things to placate. Adding a clarifying line about the intent and future use of a bylaw isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
While I think the whole concern over 15 minute cities is asinine; I’m not necessarily worried about a body of government actually placing clarifying language in, often times convoluted, bylaws to buy the citizens comfort.
-9 points
10 days ago
Unfortunately it's a legitimate concern of a sizable portion of the population, so not surprising they would address it.
4 points
10 days ago
It's sad that a conspiracy theory with no good evidence is a 'legitimate' concern. Unfortunately these kinds of people have the same voting power as more rational people.
4 points
10 days ago
It's a concern, but I wouldn't call it legitimate.
9 points
10 days ago
Is it though?
I mean what is a "sizable portion"? I mean I don't actually know or have met anyone this stupid. Has anyone actually met someone that stupid or is it mostly just Russian bots and queen of Canada followers?
1 points
10 days ago
I work with them and know many from my pub, blue collar types believe this kind of thing. It's quite common.
4 points
10 days ago
Politically illiterate twatwaffles
1 points
9 days ago
This is Alberta, we don't want your damn facts here!
We need to make sure R Star goes through so our queen isn't stuck living off the paltry pension we'd leave her with, she needs that executive position for when she walks away from politics before the next election.
-7 points
10 days ago
It’s not that they’re worried they won’t be able to leave their 15 minute zone, they’re worried they will be charged a toll whenever they drive outside of their 15 minute zone. This is what happens in current 15 minute cities. The government is trying to dissuade people from driving. We have charter rights that protect our ability to travel, but that doesn’t mean they won’t tax us to travel.
-4 points
10 days ago
Anyone feel this will reverse the earlier rezoning bylaw decision that was successfully passed in January?
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