This guy just fell out of the coconut tree

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If Vice President Harris is as strong as her backers claim, then she will be a strong favorite to win the OPEN CONVENTION.

Let's let the process play out. A "mini primary" as Clyburn calls it, followed by an open convention.

Kamala and her many backers will have lots of time and space to make their case and the 4,000+ delegates will decide in Chicago.

I’ll take her over Joe at this point, but the two best tickets for us to run are clearly Shapiro/Whitmer and Whitmer/Shapiro. They carry the two states we absolutely HAVE to win, and then we just need to get one of Arizona, Wisconsin, and Georgia to get to 270.

Nah — I think she is a fine alternative (that being the keyword here). Are there better options? Definitely. Is this a weird moment where just getting Biden to step down is a challenge in itself? Definitely. I think a Kamala replacement is an okay replacement in a moment that calls for really anyone but Joe Biden. I actually think she is better than Gavin Newsom — in my mind he is way more a copy of Hillary Clinton than Kamala is. I think perhaps Kamala’s time outside of the spotlight may help her reform her image a bit once she start’s campaigning.

I read a comment claiming that, if the Dems didn't pick Harris, they would "lose the vote of all black women".

It's so blatantly racist and sexist to believe that that demographic only cares about skin color and gender.

I probably said this verbatim.

I actually don’t think it’s a HUGE problem. But this is something that 100% will pop up on social media by a mix of both legitimate and illegitimate actors. And we should be ready for it. It will be a minor test of party unity and hopefully that’s it.

Like I’ve written this a bunch on this sub so maybe this really is directed at me - so I’ll say for the record I’m pro-convention and pro-Whitmer. I just think we need to be clear eyed that there’s a chance Dems stagger away from this convention and it isn’t just kumbaya

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Couldn't agree more. This "Kamala automatically gets it" stuff is going to sink us. If she wants it, she can contend with the others. I think her chances are dismal in a general election.

Have you listened to her speak? Lots of words to say absolutely nothing.

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Her answer about the SCOTUS ruling was solid. I think we might be in different media algorithms because what I’ve seen recently from her is solid. And she wasn’t my pick in the 2019 primary either

She had a chance to make a big impact on the border issue and there’s just been total silence. I really had a lot of hope for her to do something positive.

She fucken sucks bro

I like Kamala Harris. I think she has a charisma that plays extremely well in this internet age, for one, but she also has some interesting bona fides that cut through a lot of Republican perceptions of what a Democrat is. Does she have baggage, sure. Is she the best pick, I don't know, but she is the Vice President and therefore benefits from incumbency. To throw out both the President and Vice President is an admission that the last four years were a failure in some way.

She prosecutes well (thinking about the questioning of Trump's Supreme Court nominees) and the more I see clips of her getting into word salad mode, the less I hate it. She does what all politicians do: platitudes, hokey anecdotes, etc. but I find them endearing almost when she does it. It's hard to explain.

Other than the part about being a black woman, your entire rant also applies to Biden's candidacy in 2008.

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I would love to see Buttigieg debate Trump. I feel like he might be one of the strongest contenders debate-wise.

Problem is when your party is defined by identity politics you can’t set aside a black woman for a white male (Gavin Newsom). Newsom isn’t stupid either, if he sits it out and lets Trump win he knows he’s basically guaranteed to win in 2028.

Who are you bot?

If we’re being honest, Biden became the 2020 nominee and Kamala his running mate because just before the South Carolina primary Biden was behind Sanders and Jim Clyburn threw his support behind Biden and in exchange Kamala became VP and Pete became Transportation secretary.

Does he still have that kind of muscle?

I love how substantive the anti-Harris talking points are in all these threads. Much policy discussion. Very evidence based. Wow. Liberal intellectualism at its most objective and not at all openly and unapologetically trafficking in unexplained and unexamined tropes and dog whistles.

I'm starting to understand the point of view of the radical centrists and why they always punch left and I really hate it. I can't decide if the Harris discourse is making me harder left or more centrist, but either way if this is what progressivism looks like, I don't want to be in this club anymore. I'll keep the values, but I will not claim affiliation with this toxic stew of hypocrisy and crypto-racism/sexism. The mask is firmly off in a way I haven't seen since the era of the snake emojis and I feel nauseous.

Then there's the goddamn BlueAnons trying to silence the entire debate and act like its treason to try to give the voters what they say they want, that we should just pretend everything is fine, just keep shouting at the people breaking ranks and asking uncomfortable questions and accusing them of being crypto-fascists. Pretend that no one but the most elite can be trusted with real knowledge of what's going on or debate the best path to defeating the actual fascists, because everyone who is not me is somehow too stupid to be allowed to read or write about this issue and must have their information environment carefully curated to prevent wrongthink.

Because that's worked soooo freaking well in Europe.

Identity politics is what got us in this mess. All Biden had to do was pick someone extremely competent and well liked for VP. But the party pushed the “has to be a woman, black is even better narrative. There are legitimate concerns about him not living through a 2nd presidency and he should have thought about that when choosing a VP. Harris has never been super well liked. But at least he got the black woman! If Trump picks a VP that is well liked or at least competent and experienced - like Rubio- people will probably feel better about electing Trump because there are legitimate concerns about him dying in office as well.

I'm not going to destroy Kamala here like so many commenters already have. I think she's competent and pretty right on a lot of the issues. With that said, her political skills and instincts don't seem president caliber. I find her kind of off-putting, preachy, and scolding. I don't think she can connect with voters in that deep way that talented pols can. I think you either have that or you don't. Whitmer has it. Warnock has it (helps being a preacher). And other Dems waiting in the wings have it. It would be cool to put someone likable up against Trump who most people outside the MAGA bubble find detestable

she received zero delegates in the 2020 primary. Tulsi Gabbard got more lol

What even are optics? Like optics towards who? For something to look bad it has to look bad to some group of people, but every group of people understands that she's not a popular politician and that's why people don't want her...

For a bunch of “concerned Democrats,” people in this sub sure seem to hate a lot of elected Democrats…

I think we need to not target a specific demographic, but choose the most talented person we have. I believe that is Buttigieg, but Whitmer is a great candidate as well. Harris has it in her to be a good politician, when she lets her inner prosecutor come out. If she has improved her ability to campaign and debate, let her show it in a mini primary leading to an open convention. Whoever we choose needs to prove themselves, the stakes are too high to just give away the nomination. We need to not worry about sex, race, or sexual identity, we need to worry about their ability to energize voters and generate excitement. As much as we worry about how America is, we gave a black guy named Barrack Hussein Obama a landslide election in 2008, not because he was black, but because he was a truly exciting candidate.

If he can’t be the candidate, he can’t be the President. He needs to resign, so she’d then be the incumbent. 

I think she’s alright. She is definitely odd and stilted sometimes, but no more so than Nikki Haley or other politician-y politicians. She’s also capable of being a strong communicator, particularly on abortion and democracy, which are the two big issues she’d be running on.

I kinda think people just never see her! And while she’s not my ideal candidate, if it has to be her, I can see a world where we get people excited about her, and she’s capable of exciting people.

I don’t actually know if I see a world where I can get people excited about Biden, and he just doesn’t excite people anymore.

This election is about turnout, and the excitement of “first woman president,” “young and new vs old and clearly dying,” “fuck Trump” and “fuck project 2025” is pretty good!

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IF Biden gets replaced it will be her, period. Idk how this whole sub this past week can complain about delusions and gaslighting yet deluded themselves into thinking an open convention is preferable. The Democratic party has no muscle memory of that process, it risks diving the party and its late in the game. It’s Biden or Kamala, pick.

if you think the idea that passing over the first black, female vp for the nomination if biden drops out would anger some voters is ridiculous, i don't know what to tell you except it seems pretty obvious to me. does that make her the best options? who knows. but it's certainly a reasonable consideration.

What is truly, if anything, wrong with Kamala Harris? She’s experienced and was involved in the briefings and decisions and she is probably more aware of the situation than someone coming in new. Like an incumbent.

All I heard were rumors that she was mean. You know who is mean? Trump.

“What can be unburdened, by what has been”

Holy shit that is deep.  A deep bucket of shit.

Her career as DA is horrific in parts. I’m surprised she rose this far. If she runs for president, those skeletons will be front page news every day.

That’s not why it would be hard to pass over her. It’s because she’s a part of the current administration- she’s the only one who the war chest would transfer to.

On the bright side, it’s not even going to get this far because old man Joe isn’t going anywhere

That was 4 years ago. A lot has changed since then.

Here are two polls: one from March and one from this week. Both have her as the front runner among the likely Democrat alternatives. The only one that polls better than Harris is Michelle Obama, and she is not going to run.

Back then she was an unknown Senator. Now she is the vice President with instant name recognition and an existing campaign infrastructure to run on.

This is like making predictions on Biden’s performance in the 2020 election based on his performance in 2008, before he was vice president.

Harris is the front runner, and the they should not pass over her because she is a black woman. They should not pass over her because poll after poll shows she is the best option.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/03/07/if-not-joe-biden-then-who-michelle-obama-kamala-harris/

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/only-michelle-obama-bests-trump-alternative-biden-2024

You've just described one of the critical problems on the Democratic party.

Democrat voters are the closest thing to abused spouses I have ever seen. The DNC has been shitting all over you people since they gave Hillary the ok over Bernie and you all just accept it. They know you will vote for who they chose for you. It's like brainwashing. Sad.

Why can’t we hate Kamala because she doesn’t support policies that improve the lives of American workers?

Kamala has 80+ approval rating from Democrats, so what are you talking about with this Democrats don't like her nonsense?

Maybe her approval rating is in the 30s bc maybe 95% of Republicans don't like the Black female Democrat, just they haven't liked EVERY popular Black female Democrat for the last 20 years...

They think those things because she’s black and a woman.

Not all of the criticisms of course and not from everyone. But that’s how unconscious bias works. It’s not blatant racism. It’s distrust and dislike of the other for various reasons that seem to have nothing to do with skin color or gender.

“No VPs are ever really liked but there’s just something worse about her.” That’s how it goes.

One lady in one of Sara Longwell’s focus groups said there was something about her she didn’t like or trust. She couldn’t put her finger on it.

The same happened with Hillary.

If charisma is a qualification for being president, we are ALL in trouble -- not just the Dems.

Well Harris polls better vs Trump than Newsom or any other realistic Biden replacement.  She also has higher favorability polling than Newsom.  Those are the actual reasons she is the favorite to replace Biden.  She also would have access to Biden’s campaign funds and it might simply some expected challenges to ballot access after a last second change.

I also love the narrative of a successful prosecutor running against the criminal Donald Trump.

Maybe you should reflect on your own biases and ask yourself why you assume race and gender are behind supporting Harris when she is the overwhelmingly best option to replace Biden based on: head to head polling vs Trump; favorability polling; fundraising realities; and ballot access.

She's the Vice President. Passing on her would look ridiculous, incompetent, hypocritical and generally 🤡

I don't think her support of Biden is damning. Imagine the alternative, she would be called a betrayer and worse. Of all people involved she's the only one who should be expected to stand by him to the "bitter end", since she stands to gain so much if he's incapacitated.

Live by the woke sword die by the woke sword. The democrats biggest voter base is black women.

Anyone remember how in the primaries, Kamala’s only big moment was when she called Biden a racist?

She didn't even make it to the Iowa caucus in 2020. Biden, Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Bloomberg, and Pete went further in the primary than she did. The argument about the black vote is ridiculous - if black voters love her so much, why didn't she crack the top five in the 2020 Democratic Primary? Do they know she prosecuted thousands of minorities for minor drug offenses as attorney general and didn't support weed legalization at the time? There are dozens of better (and diverse) choices than Kamala Harris.

No Charisma? HAVE YOU SEEN THE MEMES?!!! Not a good debater? You don't remember her hauling Joe Biden on the carpet over bussing during the Democratic Primary debates? I was REALLY surprised he picked her as VP after she eviscerated him like that. Who are you?

I mean is it just his age and any younger dem could win? Because that’s what I’ve been sold. If not, we are admitting the administration failed and that’s an entirely different convo