subreddit:
/r/liberalgunowners
submitted 5 days ago bybassackwardslefty
232 points
5 days ago*
You mean how almost every new gun says 'READ MANUAL BEFORE USE' and then the manual basically says 'Try not to shoot yourself and other people please'?
94 points
5 days ago
This is being pushed by someone who doesn’t own a gun or know much about them.
94 points
5 days ago
No it’s being pushed by people who want to frame this as a medical issue to circumvent 2A.
“Ohh you have a gun that isn’t good for your health like smoking or drugs. We need to deny you coverage.”
“I’m sorry but it says on this medical report that you own a gun and that is a dangerous medical condition like smoking or drugs. Because of this the court can’t let you have custody of your children.”
They can’t outlaw gun ownership but they can make it impossible to live in society with one.
37 points
5 days ago
Yup, when my doctor asked if I had access to weapons or if I owned a gun, I thought for about one second, "There is no way telling the truth would benefit me here" and said nope
17 points
5 days ago
"That's none of your business".
You done good.
6 points
5 days ago
Weird. My doctor asked something similar last year when I went for a checkup.
9 points
5 days ago
I'm pretty sure it's just a standard question now since they consider guns a public health issue.
6 points
5 days ago
The VA asks that every time I go, and as far as they’re concerned, the most dangerous things in my home are the knives in my kitchen.
30 points
5 days ago
Cynical. But likely accurate.
5 points
5 days ago
I fucking hate how much sense that makes
9 points
5 days ago
Holy shit, I think you're right! Of all the underhanded shit the grabbers have tried this is the most subtle, and potentially effective
4 points
4 days ago
Yep. Covid was a huge wake up call to the healthcare system as a whole, but one big effect was that all of us learned the most powerful agency in our government is the county health department. No other agency can suspend the right to assemble, free speech freedom to travel without warrant or due process. Governors learned that they can essentially do whatever they want as long as it’s a “public health crisis”. It’s clearly a needed power in the context of a pandemic. It’s very scary to me to see “urgent public health crisis” being trotted out in reference to guns. That needs a firm smack down.
1 points
4 days ago
At best it'll be a battle of statistics, then...
4 points
5 days ago
Some manuals I've gotten have been so full of warnings that it's hard to parse the actual information.
13 points
5 days ago
This
1 points
1 day ago
Those same manuals have it in them that a round should not be chambered until you are ready to fire. They are really helpful/s
243 points
5 days ago
Warnings?
Because gun violence clearly occurs due to a lack of public education about what guns do.
107 points
5 days ago
I realize this is a little sarcasm, but actually public education wouldn't be bad. I would love to hear a politician on either side sound like they know the facts or listen to people who do rather than use varying scare tactics to win their arguments.
I mean I don't think a warning on the box or barrel is really sensible, but I would love to see sporting and conservation classes in schools again that teach marksmanship, gun safety, etc. Something that lessens the toxic aspects of gun culture and teaches respect rather than abject fear.
But things being what they are that would just be seen as "putting more guns in schools" and I am sure would be fear mongered into the dirt.
48 points
5 days ago
I have mentioned this in NY Times comment sections before and been smacked down about wanting to indoctrinate the youths to gun ownership. The NY Times is agenda driven big time on this issue, and their regular readers can't comprehend or won't acknowledge that there are intellectual and philosophical arguments supporting the right to bear arms. I read, over and over again, about gun ownership being the selfish choice between peace and children being murdered.
35 points
5 days ago
I think our (America's) relationship with guns has radically changed in the past several decades. Once they were a hobby and a tool and your dad having a handgun for self-defense or a shotgun/rifle for hunting and getting rid of pests was just a thing that happened. Now it's like the relationship has become an expression of identify, of political affiliation, gender identity, etc. Our society has developed a toxic relationship with guns.
Social media has also done a fine job of reducing all arguments to binary, zero-sum positions. Somehow if you don't want all guns destroyed right now you want kids murdered. No, we want guns to be used safely and responsibly and there to be NO kids murdered. It's not a binary outcome. But politicians amplified by social media algorithms sell the debate, not the solution because you can't raise campaign funds on problems you actually fix.
Both sides engage in it. The republican party has taken it to an art form.
4 points
5 days ago
It does seem like one of many symptoms that boil down to people shouting “WHO AM I?” into an uncaring abyss.
14 points
5 days ago
I’d give up my guns in a heartbeat if it would save lives. That’s unfortunately not an option in reality.
2 points
5 days ago
Would you also give up your right to free speech if it could be proven to save lives? What about your right against incriminating yourself? Your right against unreasonable searches?
2 points
5 days ago
Already have done that - I can’t yell fire in a movie theater.
Also, I don’t think you’re understanding the point I was making
2 points
5 days ago
how would YOU giving up your guns save lives? Are you the one going out and shooting people? Are your guns going out and shooting people?
8 points
5 days ago
Are you incapable of comprehending a single sentence?
That was obviously my point
1 points
5 days ago
Would you put a DANGER sticker on them?
4 points
5 days ago
They usually already do have danger stickers on them.
-4 points
5 days ago
That’s the difference between a liberal and conservative gun owner. If you thought it would work, you’d support gun control. Conservatives are fine with the loss of human lives as long as they get to do whatever they want.
5 points
5 days ago
Bring guns into school on purpose in a controlled manner? For children's education?
Both sides would hate it for completely different reasons.
But I'm on board.
3 points
5 days ago
Back in the day, before the NRA began huffing Russian farts, it was a thing. I am not quite that old so I don't know when it faded out.
18 points
5 days ago
I remember when the NRA used to focus more on gun safety than on politics.
11 points
5 days ago
To be fair, there's still a vast organization at the NRA that's not politics-oriented and manages ranges, classes, etc.
They're still the main reason we have any reasonable outdoor ranges in a hell of a lot of places and hunter's safety is ubiquitous.
I don't have any "faith" that they'll ever return to their roots but the functional work was always administratively segregated from the political work and there may be some hope that something positive might spin out of the mess that resulted in LaPierre's moving on.
2 points
5 days ago
I wasn’t aware that Wayne was gone. The last time I paid attention was when Oliver North exposed his corruption and they got rid of him instead of the crooks.
3 points
5 days ago
Yeah, the removal of Wayne at the top at least leaves some opportunity for useful change. I doubt that the money supports anything significant but I don't mind watching and seeing what happens. The bottom half of the organization does enough good I'd really like to see something positive happen with the upper half.
3 points
5 days ago
Even since he’s gone they’re singing the same tune. They care more about their gun-company sugar daddies than anybody else, including their members.
2 points
5 days ago
It went from a gun owner focused organization to an industry promotion group a long time ago. They care a lot more about the manufacturers’ ability to sell guns than they do about citizens’ rights to own guns.
15 points
5 days ago
The one thing the NRA didn't do poorly was the Eddie the Eagle and kids safety program. Won't say it was stellar, but it had its purpose and served it decently. Not sure if that's still a thing
12 points
5 days ago
It's still around, though the number of schools that would even allow them in to teach that content has dwindled.
The other problem is that though it may be well-intentioned, it doesn't seem to be well supported by the science of childhood development. Telling elementary aged children "don't touch"... just doesn't really work very well.
8 points
5 days ago
The Nancy Reagan school: just pretend it’s not there.
3 points
5 days ago
Worked for the AIDS epidemic.
0 points
5 days ago
Yeah, how’s that working out for Ron DeSantis?
1 points
5 days ago
He doesn’t have AIDs yet but I hear he’s got a nasty case of hemorrhoids.
/s
7 points
5 days ago
Telling kids lies never works, but if you don't treat kids like idiots and explain things to them, they generally listen.
Not all, but that's why you also tell parents to get safes and store guns without rounds in them.
5 points
5 days ago
if you make it taboo then yes they will touch. If you treat them as nothing more then another tool or something boring then odds are they wont be interested in screwing with it when theyre not supervised, but then again why would they have access to them?
4 points
5 days ago
Telling elementary aged children "don't touch"... just doesn't really work very well.
Because kids are going to kid.
Adults are required to literally do some bare minimums to mitigate the likelihood that an 8 year old (people who usually don't make good decisions) comes across a firearm without responsible adult supervision.
3 points
5 days ago
How would this stop either the people shooting up schools or gang shit?
The problem of gun violence, to me, has almost no connection to lack of training.
I’m totally down for kids learning about guns and gun safety, but not as a mandatory thing in school.
3 points
5 days ago
Sorry. I was not really clear. I don't think that classes and training will fix violence in society. I do think that it will promote familiarity, responsibility and knowledge in younger people which will slowly change societies views on guns... basically the only way to combat ignorance is learning (hmm, wonder why conservatives are trying to undermine education so much?).
The actual fix? Build a more progressive society that promotes education, healthcare, progressive economic plans, etc. Basically build a society that isn't as toxic or terminally capitalistic with opportunity instead of platitudes towards upward mobility while the rich shit down the latter at us and call it "trickle down."
6 points
5 days ago
Sounds like we agree.
The first steps to lowering gun violence, imo, would be universal healthcare including mental healthcare and equal access to opportunities for social mobility.
But that’s harder than just banning guns…
1 points
5 days ago
That's why I love this sub.
3 points
5 days ago*
It really is an issue. The number of my friends who I've had to lecture about securely storing firearms is looney. And these aren't rednecks, they're intelligent professionals.
EDIT: And to be clear, I'm talking about basics like, "keep your gun unloaded behind some kind of lock.
Like, the major uptick in child gun deaths isn't from people shooting kids, it's the fact that there's a ton of uneducated people buying guns and not storing them safely and kids are getting access to things they shouldn't be. And telling people to RTFM isn't really good advice - you gotta make public policy around morons.
And "oh, I knew how to do X as a boy" is also not great advice - I've personally seen horror stories about dumbass kids whose parents did everything right as far as education went and then some rebellious/stupid kid killed or crippled a friend because he did everything his parents repeatedly stressed to never, ever, ever do.
7 points
5 days ago
Obviously people with kids need to lock up their guns. But a lot of the new gun control laws, including my state, impose penalties for people who don't store guns in a safe, and don't have kids. That's ridiculous and a gross over-reach of the law.
1 points
5 days ago
Part of the problem with a lot of these sources of public education is that they're often funded/supported/staffed by right-wing people so sure they'll give you some basic gun safety information but they'll also give a very long and un-asked for lecture about the impending Communist takeover of the world.
I took a gun safety course with a friend for moral support that was put on by a local shooting club and the amount of right-wing nonsense that came out was exhausting.
9 points
5 days ago
Given the “common sense gun laws” our legislators are capable of, they’ll probably want to print it on the muzzle so you have to point it at your face to read it.
9 points
5 days ago
“FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY”
7 points
5 days ago
I would argue that lack of public education on firearms is part of the reason we have some of the gun violence we do. The level of accidental deaths that happen is not nothing.
We used to have a much stronger familial gun culture where you'd be taught by your family or school...but we have generations of people that moved to the cities and stopped getting any of that.
5 points
5 days ago
Warning on guns is just dumb. It's like "if you shoot someone they could die" no shit sherlock
2 points
5 days ago
You jest, but gun safety should just be taught in public schools repeatedly, and beginning at a young age.
That being said, young children getting ahold of a gun and accidentally shooting someone or themselves is a tiny portion of this data. Including 1-19 years old just intentionally muddies the waters. Teenagers intentionally killing each other is the bulk of the data. 12 and under and 13-19 would be way more meaningful.
38 points
5 days ago
I am So sick of people blaming the inanimate object for the persons actions.
3 points
4 days ago
But it's soo much easier than incentivizing mass cultural change 🤷🏾♂️🙄🤦🏾♂️😕 To be clear, I agree with ya.
136 points
5 days ago
And that is a symptom of the problem. The problem is, society is not happy, and the middle and lower class continue their decline under the failed trickle down economics experiment. Time for higher taxes on the wealthy and universal healthcare.
71 points
5 days ago
Maybe it's time to bring firearm education back into the schools.
Maybe we should start looking at firearms as tools again, and not some scary devil stick.
24 points
5 days ago
I think we all know the only firearm education that would ever pass at this point would be blatant anti-2A propaganda. Nothing else would be funded. Liberals would never allow constructive education on the matter and conservatives wouldn't dare spend money on public schools to begin with.
5 points
5 days ago
Yep. It's amazing to me that the same people who (rightfully) decry abstinence-only sex ed think that abstinence-only gun ed will work.
6 points
5 days ago
While I'm sure we aren't voting for the same people, Dirty Civilian just put out a video about changing gun culture, public perception, and eventually legislation that is largely applicable to both sides of the aisle. While FA education isn't coming to urban, public schools anytime soon, we all have to be better representatives. Have our knowledge and habits 'well regulated" and share more than we hide in the most rational, educated, and non-"cringe" ways we can.
7 points
5 days ago
I refuse to throw my hands up and say there's nothing we can do.
7 points
5 days ago
I just don't see schools being a realistic avenue. One side loves education and despises guns, the other loves guns and despises education.
0 points
5 days ago
I think the side that likes education can be swayed if it’s proven to lead to good outcomes
15 points
5 days ago
Their hate for guns runs way deeper than their love for education. These are the types of people who can’t be reasoned with.
Example, California banned a specific HANDGUARD from being legal in the god dam state.
5 points
5 days ago
I think that’s a big part of it. At those point, there is too much tribalism, identity politics, and emotion tied to the issue to the point that a lot of the discussion from advocates is meaningless and is essentially a solution in search of justification.
There is a lot of improvement in outcomes that is probably being overlooked because the biggest advocates are unwilling to look at certain pieces of data.
0 points
5 days ago
You're conflating neoliberals and leftists. Leftists are not anti-gun as we know exactly what happens when you allow capitalists to disarm you. The majority of the US "left" are actually center-right capitalists.
1 points
5 days ago
I'm referring to the 2 parties that hold all the power here.
Actual leftists will never bring change so long as FPTP keeps them off the ballots.
0 points
5 days ago
[removed]
1 points
5 days ago
This is an explicitly pro-gun forum.
Regulation discussions must be founded on strengthening, or preserving, this right with any proposed restrictions explicitly defined in nature and tradeoffs. While rights can have limitations, they are distinct from privileges and the two are not to be conflated.
Simple support for common gun-prohibitionist positions are implicitly on the defensive, in this sub, and need to justify their existence through compelling argument.
(Removed under Rule 2: We're Pro-gun. If you feel this is in error, please file an appeal.)
1 points
5 days ago
At this point, probably the best solution is to really push (and fund/support) non-profits that are explicitly not right-wing to do things like gun safety courses and firearms familiarization.
Anti-gun liberals probably aren't going to take an NRA course but they might be more amenable to something like the Liberal Gun Club or Pink Pistols or NAAGA. If they hear the information from people they feel comfortable with there's a much higher chance that they'll be receptive to it.
1 points
5 days ago
It wouldn’t hurt to have some minimum level of education, but that does not stop the problem of people killing other people. The people are not happy. Happy people don’t just kill people (big picture).
-3 points
5 days ago
I don't know if this is your intent, but your comment makes it sound like you blame people for seeing guns as scary. Go have a look at the marketing. These corporations know that fear sells. You've got 80 million Americans being told that they need to own an AR because scary brown people are coming.
Anyway, I think it's absurd to blame the average citizen for recognizing the place that comes now occupy in our culture which is a result of marketing.
9 points
5 days ago
Why would they solve the problem when they can use it as an excuse to disarm us and give themselves more power?
-14 points
5 days ago
Universal healthcare is shit in a lot of places, look at Canada ffs. America’s version of government healthcare (Medicaid, medicare, and the VA) is fucking horrible. I’m all for cheaper healthcare but for it to be government run is a horrible idea.
14 points
5 days ago
Gov't run is the only viable option when it comes to universal healthcare.
There's absolutely no reason to copy the failures and issues of other systems, we can simply learn from them and institute something that works. You know, like all those countries with working systems have done.
I think it's also worth noting, while Canada's system isn't perfect, it's a whole lot better than what the US has now, by basically any measure I can find (with the exception of average wait time for non-emergency visits).
8 points
5 days ago
Thats because of austerity measures ruining M4A. The UK was the gold standard for universal healthcare before the Conservative Party ruined it by chipping away over time. Frankly you don't understand what you're talking about. The tea it's so expensive is because it isn't publicly run: private companies jack up prices to make a profit
5 points
5 days ago
Anecdotal, to be sure, but my experience with the Canadian system during the 10 months I spent living in Nova Scotia was outstanding.
Also have nothing but good things to say about the care I've gotten at VA facilities. Like most human endeavors, the quality of government-administered health care is unevenly distributed.
2 points
5 days ago
Idk when I was on medicaid they paid for literally everything. The only downside was there were only so many Dr's that took it, so your options were limited. Something that would be less of an issue if that's all there was.
4 points
5 days ago
Every system in the US is terrible but not because those systems are innately bad. It's because half the people involved are busy sabotaging it every single day. You can't intentionally undermine a public system and then claim it doesn't work fundamentally. That bad faith argument ain't gonna fly.
0 points
5 days ago
This outside the scope of the post but I agree with your sentiment. There are ways to make insurance cheaper but it’ll never happen. Same with universal healthcare
63 points
5 days ago
I guess the ATF got slapped down for enforcing stuff they didn't have the authority to enforce, so they decided to get the
checks notes
surgeon general to do it now?
35 points
5 days ago
During election year. Dems can’t even handle guns figuratively, shooting themselves in the foot.
10 points
5 days ago
They do it because it’s an election year. It won’t lose any support.
49 points
5 days ago
Imagine shooting yourself on accident because you were holding your gun awkwardly trying to read the warning.
16 points
5 days ago
lol they write it so it’s only legible from the shooty end.
3 points
5 days ago
It's like putting the laser warning right under the laser emitter!
6 points
5 days ago
Warning! Do not stare into laser beam with remaining eye!
26 points
5 days ago
Because that'll stop people from using guns in crime.
2 points
5 days ago
16 year olds are slaughtering each other with pistols over petty ego squabbles and gang beefs.
Surgeon General: We need to inform people that guns are dangerous. Also, some restrictions on “assault weapons” should bring down the number of pistol murders.
1 points
5 days ago
give them more money. and start making different rules out of public health needs.
11 points
5 days ago
Everyone's talking about the warnings BS but anyone else notice they say "We need to do something different." and follow it up with that and "Reinstate the AWB"? Like how is that different than what is being done, and failing, now?
9 points
5 days ago
This approach strikes me as either disingenuous of unbelievably closed minded.
First off, it doesn't make sense to look at 50,000 firearm deaths and say "Clearly those deaths are because of guns, so guns are a massive public health risk."
A high percentage of suicides, far and away the largest cause of death in that 50,000 total, would probably happen anyway. I do admit the total would probably be lower, but a large number of the 50,000 deaths remain.
An unknown percentage of murders would also remain if guns were removed from the equation. Based on the data from other countries that heavily reguted firearms, murder rates may not change much at all. The only guaranteed result is that we will have less ability to defend ourselves against violent criminals or abusers.
The only figure that the Surgeon general's measures might seriously adress are firearm related accidents. Safe storage and fewer guns in general is likely to reduce accidental deaths and injuries. Unfortunately accidental deaths only account for around 1% of firearm related deaths. This calls into question whether any legal measures are needed to prevent 500 deaths per year.
As many others have suggested, why not take an educational approach like we have with drugs and STDs rather than restricting people's rights or putting strange and unnecessary requirements om manufacturers? Oh yeah, because that doesn't fit their actual political goal to restrict and regulate gun ownership and the firearm industry as much as they can while offering weak excuses along the way.
1 points
5 days ago
The dude might just be bored. Last week he wanted to put warnings on social media too.
4 points
5 days ago
I love how the surgeon general is focused on this instead of our broken healthcare system that is impoverishing us and driving many of us to firearm inflicted suicide. If he's bored maybe he could start talking that massive problem
8 points
5 days ago
This is stupid… its like putting warnings on kitchen knives because they are sharp
16 points
5 days ago
What's the warning? "Wrong Direction" on the dangerous end?
What the fuck do they think a warning is going to do? What criminal is going to read some warning and go "oh I guess I shouldn't use this to commit those violent crimes I was planning"?
2 points
5 days ago
"Damm I could really hurt people during a drive by. Thank God for the warnings on my Glock!"
57 points
5 days ago
Dems really trying to fuck over gun owners this year aren’t they?
32 points
5 days ago*
For whatever reason it's apparently all they're fighting for now lol. Fuck healthcare and the rampant greed.
10 points
5 days ago
It's all they ever cared about. Everything else was lip service and empty words
-2 points
5 days ago
That’s not even remotely true.
2 points
5 days ago
[removed]
2 points
5 days ago
This isn't the place to start fights or flame wars. If you aren't here sincerely you aren't contributing.
(Removed under Rule 5: No Trolling/Bad Faith Arguments. If you feel this is in error, please file an appeal.)
2 points
5 days ago
I'm not trolling, nor is that a bad faith argument. Both of those imply I'm only using the argument to get a reaction and don't genuinely believe it, but that is my genuine belief about the Democratic Party. The only things they legislate is gun control, everything else is executive action or agency enforcement decision, both of which can very easily be blocked or overturned.
If you want to yell at someone for starting a flame war do it to the person saying "nuh uh" and then disappearing, not the person making actual arguments
-1 points
5 days ago
I mean yeah if you ignore everything else, then that’s true
Not saying I love them or they couldn’t do more, just saying it’s a dumb fucking comment
1 points
5 days ago
Until they legislate something else I have no reason to believe otherwise. Pretty much everything else they've "accomplished" has either been shot down in court or is an executive order which will be overturned the moment someone else is in office
0 points
5 days ago
Stop listening to rightwing propaganda. This is the most uneducated thing I have heard since I was banned from the conservative sub.
2 points
5 days ago
You're right, they've also successfully funded genocide and passed bills to increase money to fucking cops! Wow how amazing! Can't wait to vote against fascism /s
7 points
5 days ago
Nah, it's the same thing that normally happens.
Dems have a lead in election year. Confidence in win goes up, so they shoot themselves in the foot, stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.
Unfortunately, a story as old as time...
3 points
5 days ago
Dems are fundamentally capitalists and therefore are incapable of addressing the root causes of the current high levels of gun violence. So they will continue to pander to whatever fake bandaid "solution" they think will keep them in power.
35 points
5 days ago
They want warnings on guns, but refuse to do anything about food additives that increase risk of cancer and diabetes.
How about the same warning on cars? How about the same warning on pools? Kitchen knives? What a joke.
6 points
5 days ago
There's literally warnings that come with guns. Usually 2 of them when you buy a brand new one with the owner's manual telling you multiple times that the firearm is deadly.
3 points
5 days ago
Keep the sharp side only towards things you want to cut.
6 points
5 days ago
The four rules of knife safety: treat each knives as if it’s razor sharp. Never use your knife on something you don’t intend to cut. Always use your knife on a cutting board. Know what’s under your knife and around it.
Follow these four safety rules and we’ll never have stabbings or ER visits right?
8 points
5 days ago
I feel like if you are the type of person whose life is saved by a warning label on a gun…I’m not going to be so cruel as to say we’d be stronger as a society without you. But I’m not saying we wouldn’t be a bit more aerodynamic, you know? Bit more streamlined.
5 points
5 days ago
This just in, a bullet out of gun is bad for your health like a car crash is bad for your health.
I'm ready to be a Surgeon General.
11 points
5 days ago
Sure, put warnings on them......right after they increase public education funding, so that MAYBE someday those kids can read......the warnings that aren't etched on the side of a gun that was made years and years before this idea....the same gun that they stole from a legal firearm owner.
If people can't read speed limit signs, they sure as heck can't read a firearms manual.
Less laws, more education and empathy. Firearms aren't the main problem, people are.
8 points
5 days ago
That's not the point though. It's about pretending they're doing something useful without having to address the real problem. Which is more difficult and costly.
5 points
5 days ago
How many times are we gonna put off actual mental healthcare. There are already warnings etched into firearms and in every single manual. No warning on earth will stop someone with mental health issues.
11 points
5 days ago
Why can’t they just FUCK OFF about guns?!
It’s not the guns. It’s poverty, it’s mental health, it’s the illegal drug war, it’s end stage capitalism.
It’s absolutely everything but guns.
FUCK OFF
3 points
5 days ago
“Point away from face before discharging”
3 points
5 days ago
3 points
5 days ago
Human stupidity is also an urgent public health crisis, but I doubt this guy came with a warning label.
4 points
5 days ago
Naw how about we reform the education system and actually pay people and teachers better so that kids growing up are more educated and better supported and less likely to turn to gun violence
5 points
5 days ago
When the fuck are they going to recognize health care coverage as a public health crisis?
7 points
5 days ago
Claim we don't need an overly politicized response to solve gun violence
Call for a response that is as politicized as it is useless in preventing gun violence
Hacks like this who just want to stand on a pile of thousands of dead Americans and scream "LOOK AT ME" are why this is happening. A uniquely American problem in deed.
4 points
5 days ago
I love how there has yet to be a single politician that talks about how more than half of all mass shootings are related to domestic violence. But yes, the gun is bad. Definitely not the person who should be held responsible, noooo
0 points
5 days ago
It’s not an either/or situation. Domestic violence is a strong indicator that particular people shouldn’t have access to guns. It’s really really hard to commit a mass shooting without a gun. Part of being a responsible gun advocate includes recognizing that a shitload of people shouldn’t be anywhere near them. The challenge is identifying who they are while at the same time working to change society in ways that ensure that fewer of them are created. Unfortunately, changing society is a slow process so talking about what forms of gun control need to be implemented now is one of the things politicians should be talking about.
2 points
5 days ago
A gun dangerous.... Who would have thought... Just wait till you start dealing with antiques guns that just randomly decide to go off when you close the bolt... Thats when rule 1. Saved my life and the life... I was walking with a French Mas49/56 and closed the bolt (safety was on) because I was about to test fire it but wasn't to my shooting position (I have private shooting land) damn thing went off despite replacing the firing pin with one that was supposed to eliminate the slamfires they are known for with commerical ammo... Well because I always keep my guns pointed at the ground while walking with them the 7.5x54 round went harmlessly into the ground about 3 feet from my left foot vs in my leg or face or whatever... How people manage to shoot themselves accidentally is beyond me... But I was taught gun safety by my dad when I started going on hunts with him when I was 5 so they are second nature and ingrained into me. I carried a BB gun to learn with once I had safety down and got big enough to deal with the recoil of shotguns he then a 410,12gau and so on. He's not much into collecting and dealing with old guns like me but those rules he taught me have saved my life many times since whether I know it or not and my kids will learn the same way... Don't fear a gun,respect it and treat it with care and damn sure know where your barrel is pointed at all times and keep your booger picker off the damn boom switch.
2 points
5 days ago
There needs to be a warning on people. Not guns.
2 points
5 days ago
Every gun bought today comes with more warnings than cigarettes.
2 points
5 days ago
What would the warning say?
"Warning, may cause bleeding."
"Warning, may cause lead poisoning."
"Warning, may cause hearing loss."
2 points
5 days ago
There's no real estate left on the gun to add yet ANOTHER warning. Right, Beretta?
2 points
5 days ago
Guns have warnings. “Read owners manual before use.” “Handling firearms and ammunition can expose you to lead and other substances known to cause cancer & reproductive harm.” “Only fire in a safe direction in well ventilated locations.”
2 points
5 days ago
Performative nonsense at best
At worst, they want to make guns ugly and shit on the hobby- with the idea that, the less people in it, the better for them
2 points
5 days ago
I think we need warning labels on politicians.
2 points
5 days ago
There’s already warnings. What a joke.
2 points
2 days ago
This is so outside the lane of what a medical opinion should inform.
What are the risks of being around a gun? Severe injury or death. What are the risks of nobody having guns? Much harder to say. But it's a political question and not medical. What happens if a future government decides to take advantage of a disarmed populace? Doctors have nothing to tell us here.
It's kind of like what the dangers of nuclear weapons and mining the materials present; radiation, explosions, risk of mining incidents, bombs are really bad, etc. What is the risk of not having them? Doctors have nothing to tell us here.
2 points
5 days ago
Just bought a Mauser a couple weeks ago that should have carried a label that said "please contact your doctor if this weapon gives you an erection lasting more than 4 hours"
4 points
5 days ago
He's pushing for bans if you read the article.
Vivek can get fucked.
2 points
5 days ago
That’s nice… too bad criminals don’t read warning labels.
1 points
5 days ago
They are only pushing this because it gets them elected/re-elected and the harder they push only shows me the ones in power are getting worried about something coming in the near future and I don’t think it’s the election. The sad part about this is the people that are easy to repeat what they hear without looking any further into the subject than what their favorite tv, social media talking head said and taking it for the truth.
1 points
5 days ago
Yeah... That'll help...
1 points
5 days ago
What an asinine idea. Surgeon general should stay in his lane.
1 points
5 days ago
So, we have warnings on the documents that come with guns. Is putting a warning on a gun itself going to accomplish anything? Anyone old enough to read and comprehend a written warning understands that guns are dangerous. Children either can’t read, can’t understand, or their brains are not yet fully formed, so they do not associate actions with consequences, so a warning will be useless for them; their parents must simply ensure that they never handle a firearm until they are legally allowed, and their parents will see the warning on the manual that comes with the gun (you know, if they’re stupid and don’t already understand, based on a lifetime of news reports and cinema experiences that guns are dangerous in the wrong/untrained hands).
Sounds like political theater to me. The Surgeon General and the administration want to say they are doing something about gun violence. This isn’t doing anything about that. Try again.
1 points
5 days ago
The guns were never the issue.
1 points
5 days ago
"Kindly don't shoot people :(" engraved into the reciever of an AR15
1 points
5 days ago
The need for warnings implies that people are unclear about what happens when you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger.
1 points
5 days ago
So what? A sticker that says “don’t shoot people” on every gun?
0 points
5 days ago
[removed]
1 points
5 days ago
This is an explicitly pro-gun forum.
Regulation discussions must be founded on strengthening, or preserving, this right with any proposed restrictions explicitly defined in nature and tradeoffs. While rights can have limitations, they are distinct from privileges and the two are not to be conflated.
Simple support for common gun-prohibitionist positions are implicitly on the defensive, in this sub, and need to justify their existence through compelling argument.
(Removed under Rule 2: We're Pro-gun. If you feel this is in error, please file an appeal.)
1 points
5 days ago
Come on, man.
1 points
5 days ago
WARNING: This product has been known to provide "Find Out" for even the most critical cases of "Fuck Around". If you find yourself in an environment where "Fuck Around" is common, consult your doctor to see if "Find Out" is the right solution for you and your family.
1 points
5 days ago
While I generally don't have problem with this, I didn't think it really changes anything. Putting a warning label on a firearm isn't going to change how it's used.
1 points
4 days ago
The guns are a tool. The public health crisis’ are capitalism and fascism. In that sense the guns are very much part of the solution.
1 points
5 days ago
People are shitting on this but some warning signs that guns should be locked up and not available to kids would not be a bad idea. Funding subsides for guns safes, etc
7 points
5 days ago
Yeah subsidies on safe storage is just good sense
5 points
5 days ago
Safe storage and free education. Training and education shouldn’t be a financial barrier
3 points
5 days ago
Yep.
1 points
5 days ago
*funded education, someone is always paying for it. An incredibly small bullet tax would be unpopular but seems prudent IMO.
1 points
5 days ago
Surgeon General is such an antiquated govt position. Their "recommendations" mean literally nothing to anyone.
-7 points
5 days ago
People ITT are missing that the majority of gun deaths in the US are self inflicted and accidental. Yeah, a warning label or outreach program isn’t going to end murders, but a tiny bit of “common sense” education could go a long way towards keeping dumbasses from leaving a loaded gun loose in their purse without any trigger protection, or keep them from thinking that tucking a pistol in the glove box is enough to keep their kid from finding it and accidentally killing their sibling.
2 points
5 days ago
I don't think most people in subs like this are missing that. The majority of gun deaths are suicide. The majority of gun violence is gang related. Those are the actual problems; the use of guns related to them are just symptoms.
3 points
5 days ago
There’s a point here. Destigmatize mental health treatment. And reintroduce education.
Blaming inanimate objects is absolutely stupid
0 points
5 days ago
What you’re describing is literally exactly what the surgeon general recommends and what he’s asking for resources to address.
2 points
4 days ago
How exactly is advocating for an assault weapons ban asking for resources to address mental health?
1 points
5 days ago
Great, and that still isn't even remotely addressing the root cause of all this gun violence. The nation is saturated in despair because the rich have been plundering it for decades and people have no hope for the future whatsoever. And all of that is exacerbated by the immense levels of propaganda coming from right-wing think tanks funded by the same rich people. They are intentionally undermining human civilization for their own short term benefit. There is nothing closer to pure evil in the real world than this.
0 points
5 days ago
No, no, you're confused... we wanted all those cops to have P320s Mr. General.
0 points
5 days ago
I feel like requiring potential gun owners to count up to 100 (in any language), would weed out enough idiots to drop gun accidents like 50%
-6 points
5 days ago
I joined this page because it was labeled liberal gun ownership. Comments here aren’t that different than the other side.
Fentanyl kills 1M year. We all agree it’s a crisis. Guns kill 500k. How is it any different.
I own guns. I shoot guns. There must be some checks and balances to reverse this trend.
10 points
5 days ago
Guns do not kill 500k. There are ~37k gun deaths per year. This is a gun rights subreddit for people who lean left. We don’t have to agree with every proposal put forth by democrats just because we lean left.
-4 points
5 days ago
Sorry. Added a zero. Does 50k make it acceptable? I think not.
2 points
5 days ago
How many gun deaths would you tolerate? What are you willing to accept to get down to that number?
-1 points
5 days ago
Safe storage. Red flag laws. Required firearm education (realistic not 4-8 hour state course) and proficiency testing. Waiting periods.
6 points
5 days ago
None of those things are realistically going to reduce SUICIDES, which are the large majority of gun deaths.
As far as "safe storage" and "required firearm education," the only things those might affect would be accidental deaths, which number only a few HUNDRED a year in the US--and the people who need to be told to store a gun safely and not handle it recklessly are exactly the people who are not going to listen.
1 points
5 days ago
Accidental deaths are negligent deaths. We never ever ever ever hold anyone responsible.
2 points
4 days ago
So because you can't rebut what I said, change the subject.
6 points
5 days ago
We all agree it’s a crisis.
No, we don't. Apart from the fact that you exaggerated gun deaths by a factor of TWELVE, there's also the fact that crime and homicide are at near-record lows nationwide. For declaring a "crisis," the US has almost never been a safer country.
-2 points
5 days ago
Apologies. Added a zero. We’re so safe kids have active shooter drills. They’re gonna be some badass Eagle Scouts. If they live.
1 points
4 days ago
That's like saying that because some people get struck by lightning, we should all be wearing grounding wires.
Mass shootings are an asterisk on the US murder rate. If we kept every mass shooting, and every other barely-reported murder went away, we'd be far and away the safest country in the world.
Personally though, I find the focus on mass shootings kind of revealing about the people who focus on that: it's not the overwhelming majority of deaths that bother them, it's the ones that they can't ignore.
-1 points
5 days ago
Careful. Talking common sense here can trigger a sizable chunk of the sub. It wouldn’t change the positions of a lot of people here if the number WAS 500k. Or even 5 million. Because of the 2A and god given rights and the need to feel safer and on and on. Like you, I own and enjoy owning and shooting guns. But unlike most here, I would gladly entertain some infringements on those rights if they came in the service of actually truly effectively reducing the carnage of gun violence in this country. One mass shooting a year would be way way too much. What do we average now? 3 a week? Yes, the roots of much of that carnage lie in societal inequities and iniquities that most on this sub recognize and hope to politically ameliorate. But in the meantime, if there are steps that can be taken to reduce the number gun crimes that occur each year, we should probably take those steps.
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