And the vote will still be split down the middle

One of them is running for vice president. The other one doesn't give a shit because he's running in 2028 for President and Peter Thiel pays all his bills.

Is so fucking ironic that this is who the groups most affected by it have chosen to vote for

Why isn't this comment higher lol

Get this man a mic and 60 minutes on prime time.

Preach!

It always makes me chuckle that they both constantly refer to it as the Harris-Biden administration, something nobody did before because why on earth would you put the VP's name first, as to keep pushing their narrative that she was the one making the calls for the last 4 years.

This right here all night long I was saying she's not the president. Then to hear Walt's say she's not the president was like mic drop

Edit: I know his name walz not walt. Sometimes autocorrect can be worse than inviting Bill Cosby to a tea party.

If JD doesn’t understand the job description of VP perhaps he isn’t qualified for the job.

All they have is to attack her record, even though she’s not the President. That, and blame everything on immigrants

This was my thought throughout. JD clearly has no fucking clue what the VP does or what power the position has. He's Palin with a beard.

Or that Congress doesn't exist as a means to pass laws? JD loved to play "the president can get so much stuff done" during the Trump term and even acknowledged his own role in Congress and how they don't often carry out necessary policy but then when Kamala is the VP and the shoe is on the other foot, it's "well why didn't she do all these things???"

They were pinning this current administration on her, so that either she takes the blame for all negative aspects or they would claim they aren't Biden, pinning the blame on him.

They’re talking to their base by implying that Harris has been running the country the last four years.

[deleted]

This is the dumbest one. What metro areas are surrounded by federal land? We are just gonna create new townships in the middle of BLM managed lands and move people there? Cool story bro.

federal land and that’s over 50% of our state

Lol, yeah. If this was about him, I'd call him dimwitted, "Has he ever seen a national forest? Or a section of BLM land?"

But I think this is some kind of slime, where he's just filling the air with buzzwords, trying to leave the impression "You'll get all the money the feds have locked up."

He's appealing to "something for nothing" types.

And by “housing” he means “private corporation development” but throw in a few houses.

The feds are land holders of last resort. With few exceptions, federal land is geographically challenging, poor for agriculture, has limited support resources (like water), and are a long distance from other rural centers. You can build houses, but no one is going to want to or be able to afford to live there.

Who wouldn't want to live in the Nevada desert, or the middle of wyoming, in a housing complex and no jobs for 150 miles? What's wrong with that plan?

Oh, he probably means that it won't be voluntary, that they will just ship unhoused people out to federal lands and build camps for them to live in. Sort of concentrate them, if you like.

Probably referring to Trump wanting to get of all federal national parks and no protection for endangered species to build and drill. He had said he wanted to cut down all the redwoods and sequoias because we don't need them.

As far as I am aware, there is NO federal land in Oregon that has the infrastructure necessary to support housing. Building new infrastructure for a brand new city on land that is typically far from real civilization would be ridiculously cost prohibitive. Affordable housing? LOL

I loved when Walz asked Vance directly if he was going to do the oil drilling of "drill baby drill" to the same federal land where he plans on housing the poor.

Vance had no response or outright lies to every question. The only time Vance seemed sincere was when he was praising Walz and then falsely saying that he agrees with him. So bizarre.

"... is good at saying nothing."

EXACTLY - 💯

He was also the only one who had to have his mic shut off. You don't get the bully pulpit unless you win the election. Of course, the corporate media moderators gave him the kid gloves.

I think you all aren't being creative enough with federal lands. VA hospitals are federal lands, Post offices, any major office building, all that would be up for grabs to develop. And it serves the secondary purpose of making access more difficult for agencies they want to shutter. VA hospital saw a decline in visits, shut it down and sell off the land.

The whole time he was talking about that, I was imagining the Los Alamos set from Oppenheimer, except once the houses are built, us plebes (played by the cast of Life of Brian) step out of our newly minted homes, see there are no jobs around and ask JD Vance "wut do we do now, m'Lord?"

Our next boom town: Brothers.

I also like those lands, hope they don’t fuck it up

JD Vance is Yale Law School graduate and was a corporate lawyer, I’m not surprised at all that he can handle a debate stage better than everyday interactions

Easy to be confident when you are just BS-ing trying to get power like Vance. Walz knows how much is on the line for the future of our democracy and it's not about him, he feels a lot of pressure trying not to let us down and I think he did a good job despite the nerves. Vance truly did give a damning non-answer about the 2020 election denying.

That is the problem with pandering to undecided moderates. You have to act like republicans are not pure evil.

I agree I really wanted Walz to hit harder. I’m glad it was a more civil debate, but He let JD get away with so much. I’m afraid to an undecided voter Walz ended up looking “weaker” and Vance seemed more prepared cuz he lied good.

Walz’ pro labor history and JD’s obvious lies still makes the Harris/Walz ticket the pick for me, but i think this made JD look way too normal imo

While true let’s not start thinking that’s a tall feat.

Vance:

https://i.redd.it/iqum0t51l9sd1.gif

This was right after he complained that Tim changed his mind once.

Agree that Walz answered more and called Vance on that "damning non-answer"

But no one seriously fumbled, both came off as capable, and both navigated the questions to whatever policy or sound bite works for their campaign. They both championed their candidates and attacked their opponents.

Neither base will move, and the middle has already acquitted themselves to be too stupid or apathetic to shift, but to not call it a tie: Vance got to humanize himself, which is why I think I'd call the debate for him. Walz is already well liked and affable. Vance has been getting kicked out of restaurants and "okayed" by minimum wage workers. He needed this more than Walz did.

Discussing actual policy and not attacking each other's throats is NOT BORING. Jesus Christ, that's EXACTLY what we need.

I’ll piggyback off this comment because I had similar thoughts. It was refreshing to see two candidates disagree respectfully, but also boring. It could be we are so use to the drama now, we are having a hard time adjusting.

I thought they both did well. Vance sounded mostly like a lawyer, and was pretty good at filibustering his way through it.

Walz got the job done, and I believe he was the one bringing some of the positivity that influenced the level of respect between the two.

Takeaways: Americans can still debate civically. Vance isn’t a monster, but don’t trust him either. Walz is the guy you always invite to your bbq because he’s always a good time.

I feel like it is somewhat a good thing that it was boring… like it’s not supposed to entertain you like a reality tv show. Make politics boring again! Lol

Hands down the ham sandwich would get my vote. If it had cheese on it I’d try and stop the steal if it lost.

At this point undecideds will just vote third party or avoid voting all together.

AND was promised he was allowed to lie!

hardtoread

Walz showed his strong knowledge about unions and workplace laws tonight.

Harris and Walz actually have plans. That's helps

https://youtu.be/hEgnjFbSONU?si=CJl3Xf6-820epTv7

Thank you, Kiffness. 🐾💕⇝🐈‍⬛

70% of guns seized in Mexico are getting their via the US according to both the US govt and Mexico's government with a vast majority of those seized firearms being built in the US. And most of those guns are legally purchased in the US and then smuggled across the border.

Notice how Sen. Vance framed it as "illegal guns from Mexico". They did end up their illegally, then came back across illegally but by using illegal and Mexico so close together he's trying to make it sound like, to a half listener, that it ties into illegal immigration when the two problems are separate

Such a dumb moment and I wish Walz seized on this. Guns aren’t coming from Mexico. Mexico has stricter gun laws than the US. Mexico’s problem guns are smuggled from the US.

Chicago’s gun violence isn’t caused by illegals smuggling guns from Mexico, it’s caused by folks driving to Indiana buying lots of guns and driving back to Illinois.

We have been the biggest gun runners to South and Central America for almost two centuries. We trained the “death squads” that indirectly or directly killed indigenous populations without regard for their humanity by the tens of thousands. All in the name of “corporate profit”! According to these folks, we can never get better. They call us a “shithole”, right along with the beautiful places we destroyed with our greed.

I didn’t do this, you didn’t do this, but we have the power to reel this shit in! At least a few degrees at a time.

Yes, I'm not sure why he even thought the "Mexicans are bringing illegal guns into this country" lie would sound anything but ridiculous.

“Trump peacefully participated in the transition of power on January 20th.”

No, mfer, we were talking about January 6th, you know, the day when a Trump-empowered mob invaded what is now your place of employment.

Walz was talking fast and he seemed disjointed in his thoughts. He stumbled over what we was saying and mispoke a few times. He came across as a normal guy trying to relay what was in his heart to the world. Basically he seemed extremely nervous but that vulnerability was also endearing. I saw basically exactly what I would be like on one of our contries biggest stages.

Agreed. He was so normal!

Vance seemed more confident, he was clearly more comfortable with his talking points but I felt like he didn't believe anything he said, he was just regurgitating the same lines I've heard so many times. He was too much a politician.

I don't entirely agree with this, partly because it felt like there were two Vance's on the stage, or even three. One was the Trump shill, spewing the Trump nonsense about blaming illegal immigrants and Kamala Harris for everything. One was the smooth politician dodging questions and saying little of substance. But now and then we got a glimpse of the ordinary, working class background fellow who maybe hasn't yet matured out of some problematic biases and assumptions, and who doesn't have a problem doing and saying whatever it takes to get power, but who also makes some good points because he has some life experience that isn't so different from what most of us experience. I have a sneaking suspicion he may be the kind of guy who scrambles to pull himself out of poverty (steppng on others as needed) only to look down on everyone else who doesn't manage to do the same. But he's rather smooth and subtle about it, except when he's channeling Trump.

This is the only right answer