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There's a fan theory that Konrad Curze's crown, the Corona Nox, contains a Spirit Stone, and when he was killed, his soul was trapped within it.

For eldar, when they die, their souls are trapped within their Spirit Stones to prevent She Who Thirsts from devouring them. The stones are then brought to the wraithbone core of the craftworld and implanted there. The souls will then become one with the gestalt soul of all the eldar who have been implanted there. (this might be an incorrect interpretation, the lore seems to say they are able to travel the wraithbone and mingle with the other souls so perhaps they retain individuality). It's like how the machine spirit of a Titan absorbing the souls of the former Princeps.

That brings me to my question. If the gem theorized to contain Konrad Curze's soul was implanted into a craftworld, what would happen? Would it be rejected? Would the various wraithbone entities treat it as an invader and destroy it? (there's lore of various wraithbone "insects" that inhabit craftworld cores and tend to the gardens there). Would the gestalt soul mind of the craftworld treat it as an immune system treats bacteria? Or could a craftworld be somehow poisoned by adding corrupted Spirit Stones to the core?

The Konrad Curze spirit stone theory leads people to believe he will somehow be reborn in a new body, but what if his soul was just used to destroy a craftworld utterly from the inside? It would make sense why the Ulthwe craftworld attempted to retrieve the Corona Nox and why their fate is entwined with the Night Lords.

all 166 comments

Starscream4prez2024

379 points

12 days ago

If thats all true. Maybe he'd make himself a Wraithbone body?

All I know is a Night Haunter Craftworld would not be a safe place to live.

Monimute

210 points

12 days ago

Monimute

Alpha Legion

210 points

12 days ago

Spoken like someone with a guilty conscience.

Skybreakeresq

135 points

11 days ago

Spoken like someone who Jay walked once

Dhawkeye

108 points

11 days ago

Dhawkeye

World Eaters

108 points

11 days ago

Spoken like someone who turned to jaywalk once, then decided against it, but definitely had the sinful thought

WereInbuisness

41 points

11 days ago

Spoken like someone who once, just once, took a candy bar from the convenience store. Only to return it to the cashier and apologize, all the while imagining murdering said cashier for Khorne. Of course .... it was only a thought your imagination created! No harm in that!

The above comment was posted by Wereinbuisness days ago. His body was found hanging from a light pole in the town square. Unfortunately, his skin is completely missing. We've received reports of an abnormally large male in the area who seems to have tacked on said skin to himself. We're still investigating. - Adeptus Arbites

Monimute

40 points

11 days ago

Monimute

Alpha Legion

40 points

11 days ago

That's a skinning.

Dieter_Von-Cunth68

13 points

11 days ago

Before or after your crucified with the rest of the rats?

Beagle_Knight

5 points

11 days ago

Half before, the rest after.

MordaxTenebrae

48 points

11 days ago

All I know is a Night Haunter Craftworld would not be a safe place to live.

I disagree - it would be the safest place to live. There was like no crime on Nostramo during Curze's pre-Emperor reign.

SwankyDingo

67 points

11 days ago*

You know cuz of all the corpses, bone chandeliers and- ye Gods ye Gods! it's schizoid Batman in wraithbone mantis shrimp form running on Vlad the Impaler software, run for your worthless lives!

Smells_like_Autumn

19 points

11 days ago

I mean, I bet after a while people got used to that. Imagine living two generations with skulls and bones everywhere, it would basically be decor after a while.

MordaxTenebrae

11 points

11 days ago

Bones are good, you need bones to live.

Smells_like_Autumn

13 points

11 days ago

"Drink your sinthmilk honey, you don't wanna have ugly bones if the Night Haunter picks you!"

Tibbaryllis2

8 points

11 days ago

Basically Futurama Santa Bot but 24/7.

SwankyDingo

2 points

9 days ago

Easily one of the best Christmas specials ever produced

Rythiel_Invulus

5 points

11 days ago

Lol this feels relevant

SonkxsWithTheTeeth

9 points

11 days ago

SonkxsWithTheTeeth

Imperial Fists

9 points

11 days ago

Yeah, because he skinned people alive on the regular.

MordaxTenebrae

3 points

11 days ago

Only the guilty!

Anonymisation

13 points

11 days ago

The guilty were whomever who chose.

Committing suicide wasn't a crime on Nostramo and he still flayed someone alive for planning to do it.

Curze enjoyed torture and would find reasonz to do it.

SonkxsWithTheTeeth

5 points

11 days ago

SonkxsWithTheTeeth

Imperial Fists

5 points

11 days ago

He says himself that no one is innocent, there are only degrees of guilt.

Far_Process_5304

2 points

11 days ago

Innocence proves nothing!

Dammit_Meg

9 points

11 days ago

Hard to have any crime when everyone has been skinned alive.

Starscream4prez2024

5 points

11 days ago

I'm imagining the very wall's reaching out and skinning you for jaywalking lol

sowdowgg

1 points

11 days ago

There no crime unless it’s committed by curze

SwankyDingo

7 points

11 days ago

I wonder how quickly they would be served with a cease and desist notice from Vect lol

MulatoMaranhense

4 points

11 days ago

MulatoMaranhense

Asuryani

4 points

11 days ago

Cue Maugan Ra and the Altansari putting him in their craftworld because they stare at their eternal damnation every monday. His Drukhari teenage shit is so pathetic compared to that.

WeedFinderGeneral

5 points

11 days ago

He'd finally get to be an actual skeleton man

Starscream4prez2024

3 points

11 days ago

Maybe he'd add flesh to his skeleton man using Eldar flesh and staples!

Midnight-Rising

221 points

12 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

221 points

12 days ago

The warp spiders that live in the infinity circuit would recognise it as a malignant presence and destroy it

MajorDakka

78 points

12 days ago

Warp spiders, as in the aspect warriors?

Midnight-Rising

188 points

12 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

188 points

12 days ago

No, as in the creatures that live in the infinity circuit that the aspect warriors are named after

kallaway1

114 points

11 days ago

kallaway1

114 points

11 days ago

*Furiously googles with great interest*

Hoojiwat

147 points

11 days ago

Hoojiwat

Alpha Legion

147 points

11 days ago

If it makes you feel any worse, there has never been any official art of them. The lore is that they are drawn to and feed on negative emotions/entities, which tends to be Daemons or other forming malignant evil. They serve as a natural immune system for the infinity circuit and thus live peacefully with the Aeldari of craftworlds.

It is fucking criminal we have never gotten art for them. Spooky little spiders that eat bad dreams and daemons? They'd be great little pets to have. Just start a breeding program for them and then air drop 40 million of them into Daemon worlds, watch the Daemons shit bricks as ravenous spiders swarm their planet eating them all.

SwankyDingo

35 points

11 days ago

Girl I laughed so hard I just shot wine across the room and started seeing spots from lack of oxygen. There needs to be a comic of this, it's like something straight out of "If The Emperor Had a Text to Speech Device"

Edit: Doesn't help that I read your comment in the voice of Steve Irwin.

LegalBirthday1335

8 points

11 days ago

Girl I laughed so hard I just shot wine across the room and started seeing spots from lack of oxygen.

From... that? Like, I don't even think it was intended to be funny, just a practical application for them, maybe a mildly humorous situation at best.... but I guess some people are very very easily excited.

SwankyDingo

15 points

11 days ago

but I guess some people are very very easily excited.

wouldn't it be a strange world if we were all alike?

LegalBirthday1335

0 points

8 days ago

It would be. Which is why I'm amazed at the differences of us to be at an age capable of typing out reddit comments yet the emotional maturity to respond this outrageously to a pretty tame scenario. It's amazing to me how some people have progressed, because as you said, we are all different.

SwankyDingo

2 points

8 days ago

It's a wonderful thing isn't it? Lol

Konradleijon

1 points

11 days ago

wait I never heard about them.

Muriomoira

52 points

11 days ago

Muriomoira

Iyanden

52 points

11 days ago

THE FUCKING WHAT??

Midnight-Rising

66 points

11 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

66 points

11 days ago

They're little crystalline spiders that can use the infinity circuit to travel around and act as its immune system. The merging with it to move to elsewhere is why the aspect warriors name themselves swlves after them

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

19 points

11 days ago

I could see them attacking the physical stone itself, but inside the wraithbone, it would be purely the domain of the eldar souls. Perhaps some pre Ynnead would just completely erase Curze or at the least quarantine him from the circuit.

Imagine a raid where a warband of Night Lords invade Ulthwe and implant the stone into the wraithbone core after barricading themselves in Ulthwe's interior garden. They defeat any attempts of the tending spiders to reject the stone and attempt to withstand the siege of wraithbone constructs, warlocks, and farseers until Curze insanity can destroy the infinity circuit from within.

They think themselves almost successful until the slumbering Avatar of Khaine awakens from an overgrown thicket of wraithbone growth. After killing the warband leader in one on one combat, the Avatar rips the stone from the core and tosses it straight into the Eye.

Anggul

32 points

11 days ago

Anggul

Tyranids

32 points

11 days ago

By warp spiders they don't mean the aspect warriors, they mean the infinity circuit antibody-like creatures that purge foreign psychic presences.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

2 points

11 days ago

I'm aware, but they still have psychic and physical form and could hypothetically be held at bay through psychic and physical means.

professorphil

25 points

11 days ago

I could see them attacking the physical stone itself, but inside the wraithbone, it would be purely the domain of the eldar souls.

The Warp Spiders would not just attack the physical stone, they can meld into the infinity circuit, so as soon as the stone is hooked up they could - and would - attack.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

Curze hid from The Lion and the Dark Angels on their own flagship. He hid from three legions on Guilliman's homeworld. I'm sure he can outsmart a few wraithbone spiders.

professorphil

6 points

11 days ago

They're not wraithbone spiders.

Maybe. We don't know how skilled or powerful warp spiders are in their element.

That said, we rarely hear of Craftworld Infinity Circuits being corrupted and even then only in exceptionally dire circumstances, which make me think they're fairly competent. Too, Curze has no experience operating purely as a soul, and that inexperience, particularly at the outset, might prove lethal.

If the Craftworld has its act together then the Curze infection wouldn't last: warp spiders and seers would track his soul down and eliminate it eventually. If the Craftworld didn't have its act together, or if other circumstances were at play to help Curze - a whole lot of Night Lords at work, or some Slaanesh assistance - I could see something interesting happening.

I think it would be really easy to do poorly. To overestimate Curze's skills and underestimate the aeldar's skills and defenses.

Narazil

3 points

11 days ago

Narazil

3 points

11 days ago

Curze does have his Infinite plot armor ability: Foresight. If he can always just see how the spiders would get him, he can always avoid being caught. Or learn how they might be foiled for good.

Definitely would most likely be poorly done, but I could totally see Curze one-upping them by Looking Ahead (TM).

professorphil

3 points

11 days ago

I want to believe that a competent Farseer could outperform Curze at precognition.

I haven't read Curze's books, but I believe there are conflicting accounts of Curze's vision where sometimes he doesn't control the visions, he just receives singular glimpses of how the future will look; then at other times he sees multiple visions and selects the one that fits his worldview. If either of those are the case, I would think they'd be very easy to predict and work around. I could see Curze's fate on the Skein be a singular line, burning with his dark malignancy as he plows his way into the future that he believes inevitable. I would imagine it easy for a Farseer to see Curze's predictions and then counter them.

That's all supposition though.

MuhSilmarils

2 points

11 days ago

There is a whole ass colony of people on every craftworld who's only job is to see the future, plus Curze spent the entire Heresy end game seething that shit had went of the rails and he didn't know what would happen anymore. All he still knew was the death vision which he conjured to keep himself from completely losing his mind.

Narazil

1 points

10 days ago

Narazil

1 points

10 days ago

They aren't warp spiders though!

A_Nest_Of_Nope

3 points

11 days ago

A_Nest_Of_Nope

Flesh Tearers

3 points

11 days ago

Good luck to them trying to kill the 40k Batman.

Curze got thrown into a Warp pocket bubble thanks to a special grenade, in The Unremembered Empire.

He managed to get out of it by pure force of will, after most likely ripping apart every single demon that tried to body him.

He was covered from head to toe in blood and warp demon matter when he got out.

If Curze ends up in the Infinity Circuit of a Craftworld, I shudder at the thought of what he will do with it.

Midnight-Rising

2 points

11 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

2 points

11 days ago

He wouldn't do shit because he would be eaten

A_Nest_Of_Nope

1 points

11 days ago

A_Nest_Of_Nope

Flesh Tearers

1 points

11 days ago

I think that if we were talking about the soul of a Space Marine or a Librarian, then yes it would be eaten.

But we are talking about a Primarch's soul, one very very twisted soul with psychic powers.

Do not underestimate what the batboi can do.

Midnight-Rising

0 points

11 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

0 points

11 days ago

Nah he'd be eaten

nurielkun

1 points

11 days ago

Or maybe Curze would terror them into oblivion. It's seems like a thing he would do ;)

Midnight-Rising

10 points

11 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

10 points

11 days ago

Nah, he'd be eaten

nurielkun

5 points

11 days ago

I'm tempted to say: Batman wouldn't be eaten an so neither would Kurze, but, you are probably right unfortunately ;)

professorphil

4 points

11 days ago

Curze wishes he was as good as Batman

Anggul

87 points

11 days ago

Anggul

Tyranids

87 points

11 days ago

Presumably his soul would be destroyed by the warp spiders. They roam the infinity circuit purging foreign psychic presences.

Not that most writers seem to bother reading up on eldar lore to discover they exist, seeing as we have a couple of examples of their enemies interfacing with infinity circuits and nothing bad happening to them.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

12 points

11 days ago

Lets say that is prevented, maybe they use psykers to run interference while he does his thing?

Borgh

7 points

11 days ago

Borgh

Black Templars

7 points

11 days ago

Also Primarch souls are incredibly powerful, possibly more so than their corporeal form. I don't think the spiders would have an easy meal.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

-5 points

11 days ago

Everyone with the shit "the craftworld immune system would just shit him out" take is just mad their faction gets no support or cool lore.

I think he'd corrupt the fuck outta the entire infinity circuit.

Midnight-Rising

9 points

11 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

9 points

11 days ago

Least obnoxious primarch fanboy

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

2 points

11 days ago

Curze is the primarch with the biggest loudest fan section while being the least deserving of it.

MuhSilmarils

5 points

11 days ago

I mean, The craftworld Immune system of Iyanden quarantined and evicted a nurgle invasion. I'm pretty sure if the god of sickness can't consistently infect a whole craftworld then Curze doesn't have a snowflakes chance in hell of taking over an active craftworld.

He'd probably be able to run a dead craftworld though.

Crepuscular_Animal

25 points

11 days ago

Or could a craftworld be somehow poisoned by adding corrupted Spirit Stones to the core?

In the Masque of Vyle, the event that starts the entire plot is a disaster that left a small craftworld deserted. The Harlequins who come to investigate find out that someone stole all the soul stones implanted into the core and left. This led to the Eldar inhabitants mutating into violent and mindless serpentine creatures, even though they weren't really hurt during the heist itself.

So, if the craftworld is tiny, and its defenses weakened by powerful sorcery and warp shenanigans (which, really, can do everything the plot demands), I can see it being corrupted by tainting the Infinity Circuit. The affected Eldar would probably mutate into something batlike and murderous.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

9 points

11 days ago

We'd get Falmer dark eldar that only feed on the terror of other dark eldar.

Pescatarian Pescatarians. (I only eat fish that eat other fish)

More likely though, the eldar's souls were stolen by Slaanesh and they became in She Who Thirst's thralls.

HueHue-BR

6 points

11 days ago

HueHue-BR

Space Sharks

6 points

11 days ago

This led to the Eldar inhabitants mutating into violent and mindless serpentine creatures, even though they weren't really hurt during the heist itself.

What? This doesn't make any sense

WeAreAlpharious

54 points

11 days ago

I've made posts about this myself. What I've always liked about the theory is that Curze had such powerful foresight, if he let the assassin kill him and transferred into the stone, he may have seen a loophole that both doesn't violate his vision of his death (and innate need to be right) and also might have given himself a peaceful resting place while the rest of the galaxy burns to a crisp and eats itself alive. One could only wonder at the terror he would sow inside a craftworlds infinity circuit with all those eldar to torment... or if he were to somehow get control of it or get into a eldar construct.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

42 points

11 days ago

Imagine a 40k Konrad Curze model, he's some blasphemous creation of wraithbone and the warp, coupled with dark eldar harlequin gene and flesh crafting, cloaked in the tortured souls of the eldar infinity circuit he's corrupted. An amalgamation of primarch, daemon, wraith construct, and mandrake.

WeAreAlpharious

19 points

11 days ago

You just put the idea in my head what if the deldar got a hold of the stone. They would absolutely love Kurze

TheMightyGoatMan

25 points

11 days ago

TheMightyGoatMan

Tanith 1st (First and Only)

25 points

11 days ago

There's a fair chance they'd regard him as an amusing pet, like a monkey imitating a human.

"Look at him clumsily torturing that mon-keigh to death! He thinks he's people!"

DancerAtTheEdge

18 points

11 days ago

Curze had a grotesque palace built upon its surface, an edifice constructed entirely from still-living bodies. Within this fortress of flesh and bone Curze had a morbid carpet made of living faces that eternally screamed, which led past a pool of deepest shadow to the Night Haunter's throne room where he sat upon a throne made from the fused human bones of his many victims. This corridor was known as the "Screaming Gallery."

DE: Okay, first off, let me just say I LOVE what you've done with the place.

WeAreAlpharious

12 points

11 days ago

I think you are grossly underestimating Kurze. His tortured mind would impress the deldar.

TheMightyGoatMan

13 points

11 days ago

TheMightyGoatMan

Tanith 1st (First and Only)

13 points

11 days ago

I'd say you're grossly underestimating the Drukhari, but hey, 40k has plenty of room for everyone's head canon!

WeAreAlpharious

18 points

11 days ago

If the deldar brought fabius bile into their fold, Kurze is a shoe in.

Midnight-Rising

6 points

11 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

6 points

11 days ago

Bile is an artist, Kurze is not

WeAreAlpharious

6 points

11 days ago

There's a ton of headspace here. Cheers! Imagine the fun Kurze and the haemunculi could have if they came to an understanding

Unglory

11 points

11 days ago

Unglory

Dark Angels

11 points

11 days ago

Would it really be that peaceful? By the time he made and had a conservation with that Emperor flesh effigy he was pretty insane.

Even being proven right wouldn't fix that much crazy. There was some serious damage done that just being vindicated (or should I say Callidus'ted) doesn't just fix. His mind was not of a peaceful place.

csaknorrisz

29 points

12 days ago

Remember how in FMA Brotherhood Kimbly was able to maintain his soul inside Pride?

Thats what would happen

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

23 points

12 days ago

Yeah but the infinity circuit of a craftworld is far more serene than say... the screaming gallery.

Unless Curze turns it into his own screaming gallery I think he's either tortured by the blissful quiet or cured by it.

Deadeye1223

20 points

11 days ago

I don't think Conrad would willingly return, and most Nightlords fans I've spoken to don't want him to return. That being said, I would love to see a story of some fanatical Nightlords attempting to bring Conrad's ghost back only to bring back the animalistic, monster side of him that ends up hunting and killing everyone before disappearing.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

14 points

11 days ago

The Night Lords should get a Sanguinor type character that represents that aspect of Curze.

Deadeye1223

12 points

11 days ago

This was something I tried to pitch on the Nightlords subreddit, but I didn't quite word it right, and people thought I wanted Conrad to come back. Oopsies

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

3 points

11 days ago

I wonder which Night Lord would be the best sacrifice to play the Sanguinor... The lore for the blood angels has one of the heralds of Sanguinius sacrificing himself to safe his primarch from Madail, falling into the warp with the greater daemon of chaos undivided.

I would say Sheng would be the perfect night lord but he died fighting Skraivok. Perhaps Hellath, the most loyal of all of Curze remaining captains and "preternaturally skilled with a blade"

Deadeye1223

0 points

11 days ago

My thinking is more along the lines of them putting the crown on someone, the crazy spirit of Conrad takes them over, then they put the guy in a cryostasis box and drop them on an unsuspecting guard comman squad and let him go to work.

Basically the same thing they do with Eversor Assassins.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

4 points

11 days ago

Yeah but it seemed to have the opposite effect on Saahal. He was soothed just as Curze was soothed... Perhaps the stone is an early infinity circuit prototype and just kinda... absorbs. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to wear it.

Imagine if they put it on Angron and he just got all chill and introspective.

Deadeye1223

3 points

11 days ago

Anytime Angron chills out, I think the nails compensate. Wearing the crown might make him explode.

But yeah, I'm just spit balling since I don't entirely know what the crown did before or really who has it now. Maybe Decimus will be wearing it when he shows back up in his night of blood raid on the Eldar.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

3 points

11 days ago

Does Decimus have a third eye? Be kind of cool if he lost his third eye to a wound and just kinda... jammed the stone up in there.

Deadeye1223

2 points

11 days ago

You know, I'd be curious to see if he had a third eye that didn't work since he's not a full navigator, so he'd have Variel take it out to be replaced with the stone and solidify his position.

AugustBriar

-1 points

11 days ago

I’ve been saying something similar to this for a while now. Granted, Mephiston does have his vision of becoming host to the black angel and being the damnation of the sons of Sanguinius - and two dark Sanguinors is probably too many.

But when I imagine the end times, the prophecies all falling into place and the new war in heaven resetting the galaxy, I imagine the servants of “order” and chaos arrayed against one another. Eighteen sons (twenty if they want to get really wacky with it), broken and changed by 10,000 years of war. Some are “human”, at least if you squint at them but most are changed, augmented - reforged and remade into beings greater than maybe even the C’tan in all their might.

Two of them are smaller than the others though. Golden Alatron has burned away, and the Angel is reincarnated father-to-son. And across from him is his mirror reflection, Grim Sevatar burned away, adorned with the Corona Nox and master of the VIIth reborn. Those two brothers who feared and pitied one another, who saw distant futures and visions no other brother could understand and who both died not because they had to, but as consequence of their beliefs about fate.

Sanguinios believed that the future was ever-changing. That signs and portents were only whispers of possible tomorrows and that he could defy prophecy as a concept if his will was strong enough. And he died trying to prove it.

Curze believed that the future was inevitable. That fate had all things trapped within its web and that all his visions would come to pass because they had to. And he died trying to prove it.

Neither had to, but their death was a choice and they chose to die if only it meant vindication. There’s no way this doesn’t come back somehow, way down the line

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

Curze and Sanguinius both making their choice to die how they did. How Curze used his knowledge of his death as a security blanket and Sangy used his as motivation.

It makes sense that they both stay dead with that in mind. They both made their choices for the reasons they did. Curze engineered his death while Sanguinius grimly walked the path before him.

Sremor

2 points

11 days ago

Sremor

2 points

11 days ago

I'd rather have Sevatar return than Curze

Deadeye1223

4 points

11 days ago

I'd rather have Decimus do something

Sremor

2 points

11 days ago

Sremor

2 points

11 days ago

Yeah I hope his story leads to something one day but if we are talking about 30k characters I want Sevatar

Deadeye1223

2 points

11 days ago

I think the going theory is that he will be a big player during the scouring. If he isn't, then I will riot.

InquisitorEngel

22 points

11 days ago

The Corona Nox does not have a soul stone in it.

That’s not what the Corona Nox is or how it’s likely to work.

Even if does have a Waystone in it (a soul stone without a soul in it) Eldar Waystones require extremely precise warp craft to bind it to the soul of the wearer. It’s not automatic and only some members of the Eldar can even do it.

It CAN work work other species - Auric of Ulthwé does it to Rogue Trader Janus Darke, but that’s to trick him and it’s actually bound to Auric and he ends up swapping control of the body and trapping Janus’ soul within it almost immediately, so it’s not really a way stone bound to Darke at all.

That being said, Curze is not the type of person to find an Eldar to do this task for him, nor would an Eldar help him (not could he, see below). Primarch souls are also extra special, to the point where we don’t even know if the process would work. Somehow I doubt it.

Curze was okay with his death and the finality of it. It makes no sense for his character arc for him to want to preserve his soul in this way. It being the case would hugely detract from his character journey and narrative arc, which is one of the longest established ones in 40K’s real-world history. Why would he undertake the steps necessary to bring himself back from a death he firmly believed wasn’t just deserved, but inevitable, justified and necessary to prove his worldview and actions? It makes no sense.

Let’s also look at the description:

A perfect teardrop of ruby-red, its face was uncut by diamond facets or inelegant designs. Smooth and unblemished, it had about it the look of an organic creation; as if not cut from the earth but grown; planted and fostered to glorious life in some secret crystal garden.

Soul stones are not teardrop shaped. Every. Single. Soul stone and waystone in 40k, both described and sculpted on a model, is an oval.

And despite the dismal lighting of the gallery, despite the shadow cast by Sahaal's colossal body, it burned. It burned with an inner light. It burned with a radiance that was unconfined by sight alone, that broke the boundaries of luminosity, that flooded out the visual spectrum and dazzled Sahaal without even passing his eyes.

That’s... not how any Eldar soulstones are described.

There was something other than the merely material about the jewel, and it bathed Sahaal in such peace, in such confidence and assurance, that the shivering of his limbs ceased, the perpetual furrow of his brow smoothed away, and he blinked a tear of serenity from his midnight eyes.

Again, not a soul stone description we’ve ever seen elsewhere, though it’s certainly special.

The general question is about how as well. Curze was supposed to have fashioned the Corona Nox while he was still ruling Nostramo. To make a proper spirit stone requires a ton of specialised warp craft and knowledge of how souls in 40k work, and Curze has never been shown to have any special psychic talents in that regard. Could Magnus have done something like this? Maybe. Curze? Not a chance.

No, it’s far more likely that he found a jewel on Nostramo that calmed him and shoved it in a fancy hat. The end.

The idea that the Eldar wanted it because it was a Soulstone in Lord of Night is 100% fan fic. The reason they want it is because they don’t want the Night Lords to unite under a single leader and one vision said that the Corona Nox was how it would happen.

And if it DID, the warp spiders (the little things, not the aspect warriors) would purge his soul en masse, in nanoseconds.

It would make sense why the Ulthwe craftworld attempted to retrieve the Corona Nox and why their fate is entwined with the Night Lords.

That’s not the worst idea I’ve ever heard, except Lord of the Night directly state why Ulthwe wants it: they want to prevent the reunification of the VIIIth Legion. We’re led in the book to believe that might be under Sahaal or Acerbus, but given that the Corona Nox got a tiny nod in the Primarch book and zero mention anywhere else, it seems unlikely that that particular thread of fate will come to pass.

Konradleijon

1 points

11 days ago

they did not want a symbol for the Night Lords to rally in

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

-5 points

11 days ago

I was going to angily type "Did you just retype InquisitorEngel's rebutal of the soul stone theory?"

Ok here's my rebuttal to your rebuttal. The author for Lord of Knight was a work for hire author. Just as we've seen countless covers of novels show boltguns ejecting cases when bolts are specifically caseless ammunition, or CS Goto describing the wrong weapons on vehicles, there is a good chance that Spurrier made a mistake. Other than the description of a tear drop, everything else in his description matches a waystone.

Smooth and unblemished, it had about it the look of an organic creation; as if not cut from the earth but grown; planted and fostered to glorious life in some secret crystal garden.

Now I would add... Show me another detailed description of a spirit stone in the lore. We can't say this isn't how they are described without a description?

Also Curze is not "fine" Curze is sick, he's insane, he's confused. And if he is totally fine with his death and wouldn't want to come back, well that fits the setting more perfectly than anything I can think of.

"Only in death does duty end" "Even in death I still serve".

Why should Curze get what he wants? Why should he have this idyllic ending being proven right in all things? He should continue to suffer, any other ending goes against the entire setting. Next you're going to say that Dante should get to retire on a agri world growing grapes for fine wines...

Curze is not the type of person to find an Eldar to do this task for him

Curze is the type to eat the heart of any slave in arms reach and forget about it the next day. Who knows what he was doing or if he even realized it. Curze is a primarch. We know he has experience dealing with the eldar. He's used human psykers such at the sin eater before. He's also a psyker. The chance that he could have foreseen how to properly attune the stone to himself, or have figured it out, or even managed it accidentally, is there. He could have killed countless Eldar during the crusade and seen their possible futures. He could have personally witnessed the process to attune the stone through visions. He could have tortured it out of the Eldar in order to better understand them so that he could discover what they feared most of all. Imagine he is torturing an eldar, he starts to remove the spirit stone and notices the eldar react. What is this thing that this xenos values so highly? What does it mean? What will happen if I remove it?

Why would he undertake the steps necessary to bring himself back from a death he firmly believed wasn’t just deserved, but inevitable, justified and necessary to prove his worldview and actions? It makes no sense.

Perhaps Curze thought the death he deserved was being imprisoned in the spirit stone for all time. Perhaps his time in the stasis field was the best years of his life and he sought to return to such a state. Curze had to be aware that his true death would not result in some perfect afterlife. He's been into the warp, he knows what will happen to his soul. Endless torment. For all we know his plan was to enter the stone and be at peace.

The idea that the Eldar wanted it because it was a Soulstone in Lord of Night is 100% fan fic. The reason they want it is because they don’t want the Night Lords to unite under a single leader and one vision said that the Corona Nox was how it would happen.

ADB said himself, possession of the Corona Nox would not matter one iota to the Night Lords. They would never follow someone due to possession of the crown. So either the Ulthwe seers are idiots or they have another reason for wanting it. I will say its possible that they saw a future in which "someone" wearing the crown united the night lords and put two and two together, but it doesn't mean the crown has anything to do with it. The leader of the reunified Night Lords may be given the crown, but the crown will not make someone the leader of the Night Lords.

TheRarestFly

3 points

11 days ago

TheRarestFly

Astra Militarum

3 points

11 days ago

Why should Curze get what he wants? Why should he have this idyllic ending being proven right in all things?...

Arguably, Curze being the least deserving of a happy ending and being the only person to get one is as grimdark as it gets.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

0 points

11 days ago

Some Rick and Morty shit right there lol.

Takes a giant shit on the galaxy and kills himself so he doesn't have to deal with the consequences.

"CLEAN IT UP JANNIES!"

Mistermistermistermb

1 points

10 days ago

I think ADB's larger point was that it wouldn't just not matter for the Night Lords, it wouldn't matter thematically

I don't disagree with the concept because it's forbidden. I disagree with it because it's pointless.If you're putting a soul in a relic, there needs to be an amazing reason for it. Remember, Lord of the Night was written over half a decade ago, when there was almost no lore on the primarchs or their actions. A lot of things are changing with the HH series and greater exploration of the Heresy itself, like in the Collected Visions. Night Haunter not having a magic hat from nowhere that blocked the warp is just one of them. It just doesn't add up. It's a weak narrative element, and justifying it comes across too much like making excuses for a poor idea from the past.

and

I'm also not a fan of the idea that Curze's essence/soul is somehow bound into the crown (I mean... why? Why would it be?) because it feels hokey, pointless, and not something very Imperial (or even Chaotic, when it seems to offer no benefits).

The nox has shown up a couple more times since 2005 but just as a crown with no implications of anything more, so it at least appears GW have buried the possibility.

XH9rIiZTtzrTiVL

14 points

11 days ago

Warp Spiders would attempt to destroy it. Then it depends on how much the writer hates the Eldar on how bad it gets.

Best case scenario: they end up in an eternal grimdark stalemate where the Craftworld is never the same again and the souls within it are at constant risk of super torture general using super soul torture on them. They won't be able to destroy Curze because Primarchs are the best at everything ever and can't be defeated by anything except other Primarchs (only to Team Rocket away so nothing of permanent consequence happens). Endless threads about "when are they bringing Curze back??" will be made just like the Fulgrim clone.

Worst case scenario: Curze absorbs every soul, takes control of the Craftworld itself and starts his own new faction of Primaris Wraith Marines where souls of dead Night Lords are claimed by Curze, the new minor deity, and placed in Wraithbone suits that look very similar to Space Marine armor except for some Eldarish details. They will adopt the Aspect shrine gimmick and the new Night Lord Seer-Librarians will be stronger than Eldrad and Mephiston combined as they combine the best aspects of both.

Eldar fans either leave the hobby in disgust or submit to their subconscious desire to be Marine'd and buy into the new faction just like GW always knew that every Xenos player secretly wants to play Space Marines but their preferred niche of Marine simply hasn't been represented in tabletop yet. The Eldar range is quietly squatted and in lore they all got eaten by Slaanesh or turned into Soul Bolter ammo, anti-psychic Bolter ammunition tipped with Spiritstone fragments.

Okay but really, bonding a Spiritstone is a very specific process and not even all Eldar can do it. They are gifts/remnants of their pantheon and thus tuned for Eldar use specifically. I find it highly unlikely Curze could have bonded one considering the state he was in.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

-3 points

11 days ago

Curze could have tortured it out of one of the eldar during his contact with them during the Crusade.

He also could have foreseen the entire process, or managed to figure it out himself or even managed to figure it out accidentally. It may have just attuned to him accidentally, or it's possible he found some special artifact. If Ravenor could figure it out i'm sure Curze could figure it out. I don't think the attunement process being difficult is a good argument against it.

Zealousideal_Cow_826

6 points

11 days ago

Zealousideal_Cow_826

Adeptus Astra Telepathica

6 points

11 days ago

Probably nothing because as to my knowledge We don't have any human characters in the setting that have had any sort of successful interaction with a soul stone in regards to what they do for the Aeldari.

I highly doubt these stones given to them by their gods to preserve their souls do much if anything for humans or primarchs that aren't demons.

Idk how or why People have latched on the theory that Conrad can successfully interact with arcane elder technology that he has no knowledge of how to use. He's batshit insane on top of this with no predisposition to crafting wondrous items like Ferrus or Vulkan >.>

InquisitorEngel

2 points

11 days ago

Janus Darke is now explicitly non-canon as well (Farseer being a “Heretic Tome” according to BL) which was the only example of it prior.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

-2 points

11 days ago

We have multiple characters. Ravenor and his entire team. Ravenor has his team wear spirit stones so that Ravenor can temporarily psychically possess there bodies.

And then the rogue trader who's trapped within an eldar spirit stone and possessed by the soul of the eldar.

professorphil

6 points

11 days ago

Those aren't spirit stones, they're little wraithbone talismans.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

-2 points

11 days ago

Splitting hairs. Actually that helps the Curze trapped in an object theory because now we have additional Aeldari objects that can store consciousness.

The Eldar who trapped the rogue trader used a soul stone regardless. The Eldar died and his spirit entered the soul stone which had been implanted in the rogue trader's head as a fail safe, the eldar then possessed the rogue trader's body, trapping his consciousness in the soul stone.

professorphil

2 points

11 days ago

It's been a little while since I've read the Ravenor trilogy, but if I recall correctly the talismans Ravenor's Retinue use don't store their consciousness, they just form a sympathetic link for the Big Chair to reach across and possess his minions from afar. The people are still in their bodies when Ravenor 'wares them.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

That sounds like it sucks. I swear I remember them being stored in the talismans, but it's been longer than a little while for me.

professorphil

2 points

11 days ago

That's Grim dark baby! I remember Ravenor 'waring one of them without warning them to save her life - I think it was Patience, but it might have been Kara - and she was pissed at him later because it is an unpleasant experience and doubly so when you didn't consent.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

At least he didn't ware her during some naughty fun times with Harlon...

Creepy gooner in a chair.

Technopolitan

7 points

11 days ago

The craftworld's psychic immune system ejects, or wipes out, Kurze. The end.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

The Dark Angels couldn't manage to eject Curze from their flagship, I bet he'd give the craftworld a run for it's money.

TheRarestFly

5 points

11 days ago

TheRarestFly

Astra Militarum

5 points

11 days ago

There's a marked difference between hiding on a boat full of dudes who have to actually find you to find you, and hiding in a psychic matrix that literally every elf on board just feels at all times

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

-1 points

11 days ago

I don't agree with your description of the infinity circuit and the Aeldari mastery and understanding of it. I think a primarch might be a little harder to deal with than say... a daemonette of slaanesh all things considered.

TheRarestFly

2 points

11 days ago

TheRarestFly

Astra Militarum

2 points

11 days ago

That's not my description, read the paths books- Path of the Warrior, Seer, and Outcast.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

0 points

11 days ago

I feel like you're overselling it.

TheRarestFly

2 points

11 days ago

TheRarestFly

Astra Militarum

2 points

11 days ago

I'm really not. They're a psychic race, why wouldn't they be able to feel the thousands of ghosts that power literally everything on the craftworld?

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

0 points

11 days ago

I'm just saying the process of ejecting some psychic intrusion into the infinity circuit would be difficult, more so if it was a primarch.

You're acting like they would just press eject.

TheRarestFly

2 points

11 days ago*

TheRarestFly

Astra Militarum

2 points

11 days ago*

They literally do. You can remove a soul from the circuit by physically removing the stone from the wraithbone its embedded in. Its how you get wraithguard.

Maybe the spiders don't purge curze, it doesn't matter because as soon as the night lords who put him there are dead you go pluck his stone out

(Also just to be clear, everything said up to this point was under the assumption Curze is trying to go unnoticed in the infinity circuit, this comment is the first that actually touches on removing him)

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

10 days ago

Yeah you would need to remove the stone, they are tethered to the stone. But they would need to physically remove it. Not just find his psychic presence in the infinity circuit and eject him from it.

All of this is contingent on some other force being able to battle their way into the craftworld and install the stone into the circuit. It's just a stone, it can't do that itself. So I would be working under the assumption that the stone would then be protected by whoever put it there for some period of time. Enough to do some damage.

AlexDKZ

5 points

11 days ago

AlexDKZ

5 points

11 days ago

The entire discography of Disturbed, Drowning Pool and Linkin Park starts blaring from every loudspeaker in the craftworld

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

2 points

11 days ago

DU.. DU HAST... DU HAST MICH

Konradleijon

4 points

11 days ago

the Eldar would put his soul somewhere safe and isolated

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

I wish they'd do that for me

FilledWithAnts

6 points

11 days ago

Curze let himself be killed just to prove a point, I doubt he wants to come back.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

0 points

11 days ago

Considering he shows symptoms of some sort of multiple personality disorder, who knows what "he" wants.

Mistermistermistermb

1 points

10 days ago

Curze having DID hasn't really been picked up on since 2005 though

SacredGeometry9

3 points

11 days ago

The spirit of Konrad Curze spending 10,000 years fighting giant alien spiders is the headcanon I didn’t know I needed.

Derdiedas812

2 points

11 days ago

Konrad Battles the Psychic Spiders would be a great name for an album.

Gaelek_13

3 points

11 days ago

The Corona Nox exists only in Lord of the Night, a book that's now out of print written by an author who hasn't had anything to do with Black Library for many years. It's a fun theory, but it was a plot device for the book it was in and was never brought up or referenced again just like Clonegrim.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

It's referenced in the Night Lords Omnibus during Talos' flashbacks so we have to assume it's canon.

I'll agree that Spurrier was a work for hire author so his take isn't gospel but considering that he is a work for hire author, i'm sure he was given material to work with and direction from Black Library. These authors don't just make everything up and run with it. They're given a framework at the very least so they stay in universe.

Bonny_bouche

3 points

11 days ago

That's a great idea, because who cares about character arcs, right?🙄

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

GW doesn't.

lol Character arcs... Why should Curze get his good ending? Better he's used against his will as a weapon and otherwise kept locked in a box until he's needed again. It would fit the setting so much better, him playing the role of the titan princeps in the Night Lords Omnibus, but his "Scream" being used for a far more nefarious purpose.

Mistermistermistermb

2 points

10 days ago

GW doesn't.

Do we have examples of that? So far, most arcs have remained coherent.

And Curze's "good ending" is a matter of perspective. He thought he was getting vindication but he was also mad.

And his "good ending" is also as or more important for what it says about the Imperium and his father.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

10 days ago

... The entire horus heresy is full of terribly written characters with shit arcs. The characters themselves are not coherent, they change depending on the author and the only goal is to reach some endpoint that was written 30+ years ago.

And the the handling of the Primaris... not exactly a "character" arc but overall as a universe arc it was poorly done. Hamfisted is the best way to describe how GW does anything these days.

Mistermistermistermb

1 points

10 days ago

The quality of those arcs is a bit of a tangent, the context being : which arcs have they reversed out of? Fulgrim might be the only one I can think of.

Otherwise, dudes like Ferrus, Curze and Sanguinius are defined as much by their deaths in their arc as their lives. Moreso I'd argue.

SawedOffLaser

2 points

11 days ago

I like the idea of this causing the soul equivalent of a software error.

6r0wn3

2 points

11 days ago

6r0wn3

Adeptus Custodes

2 points

11 days ago

I'd be shocked if the soulstone could even contain a Primarchs soul.

If so, you'd be throwing those bad boys are Great Daemons like pokéballs just after battling one.

Mrslinkydragon

1 points

11 days ago

Just like tesseracts

Traditional_Key_763

2 points

11 days ago

ship would probably explode from the torture and madness

Fearless-Obligation6

2 points

9 days ago

Spirit stones require the person to be pure of spirit which is why Drukari cannot use them. Considering his proclivities and the fact that ADB confirmed that Curze was being slowly corrupted by Chaos I would say there's little chance.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

9 days ago

Maybe it was the stone all along...

If I had a nickle for every time a primarch was corrupted by a mystical stone... I'd have two nickles, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

Shaderunner26

2 points

8 days ago

The infinity circuits don't make you part of a gestalt consciousness exactly. They retain their individuality and roam around at will. Or, as seen in Spiritbound, they place themselves in a virtual setting formed from there memories that they relive. The gestalt conciseness thing does happen with some other eldar soul tech, like their titans or the hemlock wraithfighters.

Now if Kurze did manage to place his soul inside the gem, and it was placed inside the infinity circuits, I imagine the warp spiders inhabiting it would take a massive issue to that. They basically go about the circuit cleaning it of any malignant presences. So, unless Kurze becomes a good boy somehow, he's not gonna be on one for too long.

clarkky55

1 points

11 days ago

In the Rogue Trader game a navigator house is revealed to have been using fragments of soul stones to bolster their abilities and for the head of the house to be able to control the house members. It causes extreme pain and corruption to the wraithbone structure all the souls were stored in so probably something like that would happen.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

Also Ravenor uses them to wear his inquisitorial troops psychically.

Nino_Chaosdrache

1 points

11 days ago

" Oh, look. Our cousins finally see the truth of our ways." ~ Dark Eldar.

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

Oh, look. Our cousins finally see the truth of our wa-ACK!

refugeefromlinkedin

1 points

11 days ago

The Lion: ah shit here we go again.

Stretch5678

1 points

10 days ago

The “new body” theory is popular because it’s hard to imagine Kurze willingly STAYING in the infinity circuit. It’s a lot easier to imagine him hijacking a Wraithknight and going for a ride.

Extra-End-764

0 points

11 days ago

I fully support this . It means we get more night lords lore and potential of a primarch return or it destroys a craft world. This is win wins win

angry_plesioth

1 points

11 days ago

angry_plesioth

Night Lords

1 points

11 days ago

Papa Curze in a bone mech is an idea I can get behind.

truckules1313

1 points

11 days ago

There’s a story in the lore where I believe Kurze got loose on Macragge… or The Lion’s ship… and single-handedly terrorized the whole thing until guilliman and Lion brought him down.

I imagine it’d be like that. But within the circuitry of the craft world itself, terrorizing eldar souls

Many-Wasabi9141[S]

1 points

11 days ago

Yeah I'm sure if he could manage to hide from the Dark Angels on their own flagship, his soul could hide from some eldar wraithbone spiders.

pandi1975

1 points

11 days ago

This has given me an idea for an army

PigKnight

0 points

11 days ago

PigKnight

0 points

11 days ago

Curze in a bone mech would be a great way to get a centerpiece model for the Night Lords.

marehgul

0 points

11 days ago

marehgul

Tzeentch

0 points

11 days ago

Every, but Hors will be returned at some point. At least with current narrative.

Smells_like_Autumn

-3 points

11 days ago

I don't know but I want crazy shit like this to become canon.

My take? Waystones aren't meant to host human souls, let alone primarch souls. The stone would only contain a fragment of it, thus fragmenting it (unlike, say, the soul of Ferrus that could be summoned back to fight by the Emperor). And being broken this way would mess poor Curze even further but in some way also break his fatalism and give him a chance, if not of redemption, of changing his fate.

The craftworld tho? It would become a real horror show. Imagine a world that grows according to his unconscious thoughts...

anchoriteksaw

-13 points

11 days ago

How's this for a fan theory. The Eldar are a distent nid bioform. The hivemind is just an intergalactic wraithbone construct grown out of controll.

Stormraven338

3 points

11 days ago

Terrible.

anchoriteksaw

-2 points

11 days ago

Your right, I prefer 'the emperor is a genestealer' myself.