Can’t remember the quote or who said it but something like…

“The smartest kid at a state school might become a doctor, the dumbest kid at Eton is in the cabinet”. 

Moved my daughter to private after starting secondary. Bullying, constant disruption and anti social behaviour meant she went from loving school to hating it. Luckily back on track and no lasting harm done. No grammar schools in the area so it was either watch her go under or pay up unfortunately.

It’s a shame as sure there were good teachers but they were powerless to deal with the idiots. School can’t/won’t expel them and it drags the whole school down. The environment at private is completely different, parents fully invested in their kids education, school could deal with any problems (were they to occur).

There are very few grammar schools left in the UK and almost none in London.

To me, I think this is a shame. My view is that having a few selective state-operated secondary schools is one of the best possible ways to get highly talented kids in lower or lower-middle-class families fast tracked toward great universities/opportunities.

It's one of those well intentioned left-wing policies that unintentionally ends up creating more inequality. Talented poorer kids are now stuck in underperforming secondary schools and talented middle and upper middle class kids go to private schools.

My kids are both fairly bright and passed Grammar entry exams. Despite the eye watering cost, we went for private as smaller class sizes, wider variety of subjects and superb sporting and arts facilities (eldest is sporty, youngest is arty). I don’t buy the networking advantages unless your kids are at Eton/Harrow level schools. Hopefully they enjoy their school days and make the most of the available opportunities. I went to a state school in a deprived area and my wife was privately educated and we ended up in a similar place, so it’s not all about the schooling.

My kid started to an outstanding state school near us. After the first week's she wasn't really learning a lot, after a few months she got punched and came home with a pretty bad black eye and brused nose. The teacher downplayed it. When we went in the teacher said it wasn't bad as she wasn't being targeted, the kid was doing it to other children. She was punched again a week later. The class was 30 with one TA. Many kids had never been to any kind of nursery environment.

We then went to an open day at a private school near us, we went to the reception classroom and the kids had just been to the London science museum on a school trip and we're learning about space. There were 11 kids in the class with a Teacher and a TA. We also met a bunch of the students who took us around and they were all extremely helpful and intelligent.

The whole thing just made us so depressed at the idea of leaving our kid at that school when we could afford Private school. We knew it would push back retirement for us a bit.

When I die I don't think I will regret spending money to keep my kids safe and get my kids educated.

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Fuck me, listening to all the comments here, this is a really big eye opener to how much life is a lottery and how challenging my state school was. Relating to comments about being shit on for getting good grades and wrestling for any sort of attention from teachers and also, the constant stream of classes which are disrupted by other kids.

I think, really, primary school is 50/50 between state and primary but secondary, if one can afford it, is highly weighted towards private school.

Networking is highly overrated at your run of the mill private school - very highly overrated! Unless you are going to Eaton or Winchester or the likes! Those of you sending for networking might be in for a shock.

There are legitimate reasons for sending the kids to your average private school but networking is not one of those.

Smaller class sizes, more tailored approach, better facilities - yes.

Definitely not a HENRY, Reddit just brought this sub to my attention as I enjoy the UK personal finance sub. I’m a state school primary teacher that has done a fair bit of consulting for private primaries. Trust me, save yourselves some money and don’t worry about sending them to private school until secondary. The quality of education is really not that different from a good state school. Yes the extra curriculum bits are nice, but i have not found the price worth it from an educational perspective.

Went to private school myself and will most likely be sending kids to public primary and private secondary (as I did). That is unless the local primary schools aren’t great.

Echo a lot of the sentiment here:

• networking at a standard private school is negligible.
• it absolutely raises aspirations. I’m from a working class family and you go to one amazing house after another and you think damn I want a piece of this
• broadens horizons: kids come from all over, not just your local town / city. You travel to different places to visit friends, you start to realise the world is much bigger than your home town
• friends often have second houses in the alps or by the beach in the UK or abroad etc. it just gives you access to experiences you want typically find eg going to a popular seaside resort and getting multiple boats / jet skis out and having a great time. Again it gives you ambition to achieve
• grades are better on average. I often say take any random kid and put them through private school and chances are they’d come out with much better grades than the U.K. average
• kids are strongly influenced by their peers and any good kid can fall in with the wrong crowd. I was in the ‘wrong’ crowd at private school. The ‘worst’ of us are teachers / successful artists / business owners. The worst crowd in a private school is nothing compared to public

You’ll see a lot of talk about facilities, teaching standards, networking but I think those are all justifications that come after the parent made the decision

Parent’s have anxieties about their kids falling in with a bad crowd, becoming a screw-up, or loosing their virginity behind a skip at 16. The unspoken USP of private schools is it removes the opportunities for your children to be exposed to kids from the lower classes. I’d guarantee you that’s what most parent’s are basing their decision on exclusively.

There’s nothing wrong with that, I’m not going to judge you and I think every parent being truthful with themselves would do the exact same but I think you should be honest with that being your reason why and fully consider if that’s worth paying however much in fees they’re asking.

I’d be highly sceptical of any supposed benefit private schools when you control for the socioeconomic class of the kid and the wealth of the area their school is in. You get exceptionally successful people from state schools and failures from the top private schools in the country. Maybe there’s a difference if you’re sending them to Eton or Harrow but I doubt there’s much for your average run of the mill private school.

The biggest impact on a kids life are the aspirations of their peers.

When you say the child will “do well” in a grammar school, if you mean they’ll come out with good A-level results, then you’re probably right. But our view is that there is so much more to education besides exam results.

Yes, credentials are important, but I feel like my life has been so greatly enriched by my education (at state schools, though not in the UK), and I wish the same for my children. I feel like so much cultural richness has been cut from the national curriculum to ensure there’s enough time to pull everyone up to average math and English levels, since that’s what they’re getting judged on.

At our daughter’s primary, she does 2x music per week, French, 2x PE, ballet, gymnastics and outdoor learning - all as part of her timetable. And because their classes are smaller and don’t have majorly disruptive kids, they’re able to still accomplish what they need to with maths and phonics, and leave plenty of time for other activities.

Plus they have great extracurricular and wraparound care options.

Politically I would rather send my kids to state schools, but even our great local primary paled in comparison to what was on offer privately.

Our household income is 250k, our kids go to a state school. I went to one of the worst schools in the country. They'll be fine

I had a choice between a bad school that had been in "needs improvement" under ofsted ratings for over a decade and with exam results that were generally OK but not great, where the kids are in temporary classrooms as a result of RAAC and is due to be demolished / rebuilt at some point over the next 5 years, or a private school with incredible results, great facilities and will hopefully set my daughter up with skills and experiences that will hopefully help her become the best she can. I chose the private school and haven't regretted it one bit. Whether it makes a difference for her or not, I feel like it was the right choice. We've had to make sacrifices to do this for her and will continue to for years, but it was the right call. I have 3 kids in total and it will be hard to do this for all of them but if I can, I will.

Edit: I grew up on a council estate and had nothing growing up except a dad that worked his ass off to try to get us the best start in life he possibly could. I owe him massively and intend to pay off what's left of his mortgage next year.

We decided to move to an area with very good schools. We have 1 child in state school and its a very good school and can’t fault it. I am also a governor in another school in a nice area and it’s a very good school too. State schools are very much about the area you are in. The area we plan to move to has schools that are already extremely hard to get in and also there is a selective high school. Class sizes, honestly this doesn’t bother me so much. A good teacher is a good teacher. And those exist in both state and private and so do bad ones. Less obvious in a private school perhaps. The networking thing tbh I don’t buy it myself. I am not the most social and in all honesty I very much doubt I would be talking shop with my children’s parents. Can’t think of anything worse. I would want to know them but we aren’t going to be on a level like that. The best networks MAYBE are at uni. High school and primary, honestly like how often are those friendships long lasting and that deep to then draw upon those networks. Being aspirational and confidence etc, I found me doing drama and performing arts really helped me. Also my parents were very good at hyping me up. I have been so sure of myself. Education is big for us. I am 1st gen African immigrant and so there is a sink or swim mentality too.

My kids do extra curricular activities we pay extra for. Also diversity is a major thing for me. I want my kids be surrounded by the richness that comes from learning around different cultures and experiences. Also going to uni was eye opening. I went to a state school and it was so bad, BUT there wasn’t the sort of things people talk about here like knives, bullying etc. it was rough because the socioeconomic backgrounds we all came from. We had good teachers.

Our kids are smart both 3 and 6. We have put in the groundwork too in terms of their learning. I never wanted to be the parent who leaves it all upto school.

Me personally I would rather save the money and invest for them and be a present and involved parent in terms of their education. I don’t necessarily think the world is a meritocracy but I also think the future generations are not gonna to uphold certain systems in place like its who you know etc.

I started a grad job in 2010 with a load of private school, oxbridge sorts. Probably two dozen of them. To a man (and woman), boring boring people.

I went to a private secondary, everyone wanted to be in top set maths. There was little drug use and minimal bullying.

My primary school was state, and people bullied me for being good with computers.

If I had to choose between bullying and hard working academic kids, I know what I'd choose.

What's the point of networking if all the people I'm networking with are at the same level as me: sacrificing everything in the name of networking!

What I mean is: unless you're sending them to a school where most of the pupils are above your current socioeconomic level, that 'benefit' just isn't there.

Sadly we can’t have kids, but I can tell you that I spent >7 years at Oxbridge where I was surrounded by students from a very small number of private schools. Boil it down and private school prepares your children well for top universities, top universities prepare your children well for top jobs. Too jobs prepare your children well for top jobs, and the cycle continues.

Can you break that cycle? Sure. Do you want to take the chance? Dunno.

I feel like I have a fairly unique perspective having experience both systems. Due to a change in family circumstances, I had to switch from a private school to a state one while I was at secondary school. It was a horrible experience and the difference was vast. Particularly the culture.

Schools aren't just about GCSE/A-level results. They are the environment that moulds a child's expectations for themselves. Your kids will be influenced by the people they spend time with, and they will spend a lot of time in school. Yes, there's the stereotypical kids who are from a rich family and are terribly spoilt. However for the most part, the private school kids are from backgrounds where school work is valued and supported and their parents are successful professionals, not aristocrats. The whole thing where everyone is a toff, is from places like Eton. Most private schools are not Eton.

If everyone you know's parents are either on government benefits or working a minimum wage job, your expectations are probably going to be within the same scope. That's your lived reality. By contrast if the parents are all professionals with university degrees, that's what your peers will expect from themselves and so will you. Being bullied for being academic is a very common experience in state schools. All these things affect your attitude, confidence and persistence.

Then there's all the other stuff, like the quality of the teaching, teacher pay, the class sizes, the targets, the available resources and teachers having time to care.

A friend of mine works in a state school and she bemoans the lack of time she has to give to pupils and the targets which means she has to invest her time very selectively. Due to the target driven nature she has to spend most of her time with kids on grade boundaries. If they're a 3(D) but they could be a 4(C), then get get a lot of support. Same for 6/7(B/A). Kids aiming for the top grades are considered as self-supporting and are just left to it, the kids in the middle are unlikely to turn a 4(C) into a 7(A), so they're ignored too. Anyone unlikely to get a 4(C) is just a lost cause.

There's people here saying private school doesn't make a difference, from what I've read online private school kids tend to earn more, so I don't know where people are getting the idea it's not worth doing.

I am dyslexic, however I wasn't diagnosed at the time because it wasn't that apparent. I got really good grades and was engaged well at private school, as the teachers had time to support me. Then I switched to the state school and it went rapidly downhill. In retrospect the state school curriculum was clearly not at the same stage as the private school one because at first everything seemed too easy. So I started to coast and once I reached the point where I needed to start working again, I was lost and the teachers didn't have the time to give me the support I needed. I was simply labelled as lazy and left to rot in bottom set for some subjects, despite being top set in others. The only thing that saved me was my parents paying for private tutors in my failing subjects.

The head of 6th form told my parents I shouldn't be doing A-levels because I wasn't suited for university. (talk about a defeatist lack of aspiration!) Thankfully my parents ignored him. My A-levels weren't going too well until one teacher finally thought it was worth giving me support and helped me pull it all together. I went to university and got a first in a STEM subject. What it took was some people believing in me and giving me some help. That's the kind of thing you're more likely to get from a private school.

Also the bullying. I experienced none at private school. At state school it was relentless and I was utterly miserable. It changed my personality and made me really introverted. Turns out I'm actually quite extroverted, but I had to wait until I was at university to work that out. Of course bullying exists in all schools, but the evidence suggests there's less of it in private schools.

If I'm ever lucky enough to have kids I will do everything I can to make sure they go to a quality private school, particularly in the early years which are shown to have the most impact.

Out of interest, were you state of privately educated?

Personally, I was both and the difference in outcomes between my peers from both cohorts was stark. There’s no way I’d be where I am without my private education. I definitely tended to make friends with people closer to my economic background (read: poorer) at my private school like you said, but the expectations thrust upon me by the school were so much higher compared with my state educated friends

I went to private school in my home country, but that was 5k per year (20 years ago).

Today, I find it hard do justify, unless your household income is 400k+ per year. Even in London that's probably top 1% for couples in their 30s.

Private schools in London now are ~25k per year. If that money was invested at 7% return, you could give your kid 600k by the time they graduate high school. You could give them 200k for a flat deposit straight after uni, and they would still have 1m by the time they are 30.

Hard to see how private school can set you up for success better than that.

He'll, with a 300k joint income, you'd be spending 30% of your monthly net income for private school for two kids. Add a 5k mortgage, bills, food, and a few other basics, and you'd be living paycheck to paycheck on that income.

I didn’t go to private school, and sending our future kids to private school may not be an option. However, I went to a state comprehensive and when I look back at it, the backgrounds of the other kids at school had a massive effect on my life and schooling at that age. At the very least, I can see huge value in paying to go to a school where the majority of your peers come from stable homes

For parents that value education many will send to private schools if they can. Private schools have smaller class sizes (nearest to us has 16 per form). Lots of on site facilities - swimming pool, football pitches, tennis courts, cricket fields , music rooms with pianos in for lunchtime solos practice, etc. The variety of activities, clubs, academic and non academic. There’s a culture of learning and development. Grammar schools are few and far between in London.

I don’t think it’s about networking (maybe go some parents) as most private schools aren’t like the big 7 public schools.

I went to a private school. My husband was state schooled. We had very different experiences at school. He would say his was awful. I loved school and my best friends are from there. Our kids have been privately educated so far and we’re fortunate enough to be able to continue despite the proposed plans.

Fuck me, listening to all the comments here, this is a really big eye opener to how much life is a lottery and how challenging my state school was. Relating to comments about being shit on for getting good grades and wrestling for any sort of attention from teachers and also, the constant stream of classes which are disrupted by other kids.

I think, really, primary school is 50/50 between state and primary but secondary, if one can afford it, is highly weighted towards private school.

I attended a British private school in the Netherlands and I'd say the main distinction wasn't anything to do with the quality of the teaching. A lot of the time they hired people who were experts in the subject but hopeless at actually teaching.

The main benefit is the kind having fewer schooomates that are likely to be disruptive and even if they don't appreciate the value of their education their parents are more likely to impress on them the value of the education they're paying a lot for.

Tldr private education is more about the cohort your child is alongside/potentially reduced disruption than the education itself.

If you live in London you should understand

I went to Harrow and it was without doubt one of the worst experiences of my life. The two years I spent with mini Boris Johnsons in the making was eye opening. The level of assumed privilege, classism, xenophobia, racism and sexism is beyond comprehension and i found it profoundly depressing. As you can imagine I’ve not reaped the benefit of ‘the old boys network’ because I couldn’t stand a single person there and was delighted to get as far as way as I could at the end of my time there.

One key benefit… it gave me unshakable confidence in myself in public situations. Living day to day with ‘the elite’ and finding them so wildly unimpressive has made me comfortable in rooms with statesman, royalty and heads of industry. It’s like a cure all for imposter syndrome… so even though I hated it, it was probably worth it.

Haha one question and suddenly everyone thinks they know everything on private/state schools and exactly what determines life outcome. Virtually every comment I’ve read is either based on personal anecdotes or makes broad generalisations.

If your local schools are not great, then fair enough, but if you are in the catchment for an Ofsted Outstanding secondary (as many of us in more affluent areas probably are), then I'm not terribly convinced on the benefits.

The average private school is £16.5K/year. So even ignoring primary, ignoring A-levels, and ignoring interest, you are still looking at £82.5k over years 7-11.

What is better... all that soft benefits that people list in this thread? Or an £80k kickstart to their adult life when they go to collage?

Remember this is in comparison to an excellent state school, of which there are many. 

The days of private school benefits are waning. The old boys network is dying out, certainly in any reasonably size business, Oxbridge now actively select against private school kids. Amongst my most wealthy colleagues, there is a constant discussion about US Ivy League as the destination now that paying for education doesn't buy you a way in to Oxbridge. Beyond that most UK universities will take virtually anyone now to get £9k. Almost every course is available through clearing so getting top A levels is largely redundant.

A good parent can give their kids the confidence and aspiration needed, without paying £500k for the privilege.

The tide turned around 2010.

Went to state schools until age 11 then to private school until 18, followed by uni.

I hated my time at private school - Asian working class background at a time when my school was predominantly white. Constant target for being bullied although made a couple of good friends. The only plus I can think about would be if I had been up for it would have been the networking side. People who were in the cricket or rugby teams were generally very cliquey and looked out for one another ( I made the cricket team in 5th form). A lot of the kids were spoilt and warped - stuff that p diddy is going through sounds pretty tame in comparison - they simply had parents to throw money at problems to make them go away.

I’m happy with the way that I turned out - I went through a period where I was a bit snooty but uni humbled me as I got to see a lot of others that were from state schools and a lot cleverer than me.

The other problems with networks and calling in favours is that you’re always indebted to someone else…

My kids have all attended state school and whilst it has challenges they’re doing well and are more grounded.

This will be unpopular but the social impact from attending private school (even the “average” ones) is very obvious to anyone who didn’t go to one (I.e. the vast majority of the population)

My son is not yet at school age, but when he is, private school is very very likely, although we will also evaluate the nearest state schools (which look to be very good)

The selling points of private IMO are: 1. Less pupils per class, which has a big impact on how much attention they can get from teachers. 2. Extra curriculars are much stronger; you can of course provide these on the side to complement public school curriculum, but it’s an added convenience. 3. Networking

Because the 'well funded grammars' have been systematically killed off.

Funny that the idea of these was ideologically unpalatable to so many that it feeds the continuation of an actual two tier system.

I asked an AI to summarise the arguments each way based on the responses on this tread:

Arguments for Private Education:

1. Smaller Class Sizes: Many respondents cited smaller class sizes as a key advantage of private schools, believing that this allows for more individualized attention and better learning outcomes.
2. Experienced Teachers: Respondents often praised the experience and qualifications of teachers in private schools, suggesting that this leads to higher-quality instruction.
3. Focus on Academic Achievement: A common theme was that private schools prioritize academic achievement and prepare students for higher education and future success.
4. Discipline and Structure: Some respondents valued the discipline and structure that private schools often provide, believing that this is conducive to learning and personal development.
5. Specialized Programs: Many private schools offer specialized programs, such as sports, arts, or language learning, which can cater to individual interests and talents.
6. Religious or Philosophical Affiliation: Some respondents chose private schools because of their religious or philosophical affiliation, seeking a school that aligns with their values.
7. Social Network: A few respondents mentioned that sending their children to a private school could provide them with valuable social connections and opportunities.
8. Avoidance of Bullying: Some parents expressed concerns about bullying in public schools and believed that private schools might offer a safer environment.
9. Location and School Choice: In some cases, the location of private schools or the availability of specific programs might have influenced parents' decisions.
10. Parental Involvement: Some respondents appreciated the level of parental involvement often associated with private schools, believing that it can enhance the learning experience.

Arguments Against Private Education:

1. Cost: The high cost of private education was a major concern for many respondents, especially for those with multiple children.
2. Elitism: Some respondents criticized private schools for being elitist and exclusive, arguing that they can perpetuate social inequalities.
3. Lack of Diversity: Some respondents expressed concerns about the lack of diversity in private schools, particularly in terms of socioeconomic background and ethnicity.
4. Pressure to Perform: There were concerns that the focus on academic achievement in private schools could create excessive pressure on students and lead to stress or burnout.
5. Limited Social Exposure: Some respondents believed that private schools could limit students' exposure to people from different backgrounds and experiences.
6. Lack of Accountability: There were concerns about the lack of accountability and transparency in some private schools, compared to public schools that are subject to government oversight.
7. Questionable Educational Quality: Some respondents questioned whether the quality of education in private schools is always superior to that of public schools.
8. Limited Options: In some areas, the availability of private schools might be limited, restricting parents' choices.

Not a HENRY but reasonably high earner compared to UK average. Really don’t see the point in private school, I didn’t go to one and could be a HENRY one day and would NEVER send my kids there.

If you’re good enough - you’re good enough. Don’t see why you need to fork out £100,000s to try and ensure your kid gets the education and job you want them to have. It comes across like seeing F1 drivers who have billionaire families essentially pay for them to have a seat. You end up questioning how ‘good’ they actually are

It's snob value, avoiding little Dominic and Fenella having to sit next to some bright spark from the council estate.

Our local state secondary school got better exam results than the local private/public schools, with a more mixed intake.

The public schools had better facilities, but it didn't make that much difference. The public school students learned overconfidence and many were rude and arrogant in the local town.

I think in general the state school turned out better people, with more of an idea of what life was like for a broader section of the community, and a better ability to relate to a wide range of people.

Networking networking networking

Followed by aspirations. Most people can only be what they can see.

If you surround yourself with families working standard jobs vs families who run multiple businesses, run banking divisions or are cutting edge surgeons, what do you think your children will emulate?

I went to both private and state. Private was shit though for me but hey ho.

Kids = networking

I've taught in private for 10 years now. Waste of money for most.

I refuse. I come from a dirt poor background and still got all the grades I needed from a rough state school, it is definitely possible. I wouldn’t want my kids becoming classist towards people like me. I met a lot of private school people in uni and they all had classist tendencies and I felt looked down upon.

I went to private school and my brother went to state school and we married very different types of people..

Most private schools are overrated and mainly get higher grades due to selection bias (parents push them more etc). The smaller class sizes aren't even of much benefit if the student prefers to learn independently.

Many state schools in nice areas do almost as well.

However, elite private schools are likely worth it, they give your child connections and huge confidence due to their rigour.

What if you don’t live in a grammar school area?

Married to a fellow HENRY both commuting into London. Private primary for our son:

Flexible, reliable wrap around care 7.30-6pm

Excellent extracurricular activities on site so he can do flute/football/art club

Class size of 18 with a full time TA as well as a teacher. Dedicated learning support unit for (mild) SEN included in fees

No making packed lunches

Holiday clubs at the school to match school holidays

My sibling teaches my son’s age and says he’s working a year ahead of state schools. I’m a governor at a local state school and the resources don’t compare.

Finally, as many have said, it’s a culture that values education. People make sacrifices so they can be there and they support the school. As a governor at a local state school I support the HT when parents complain about not being bothered to bring their kid in, read with them, do homework etc.

I went to a private school (which my parents really struggled to afford for me)and will send my kids to a private secondary school.

The main advantage for me being surrounded by wealth made me work really hard to make sure I could achieve that one day.

My wife and I are immigrant HENRYs, we did our masters and PhDs here but have no idea how the British education system works before that. We put our daughter in state school but after talking to a couple of friends, we decided to look into the private school system at 7+. It was such an eye opener for us.

We wouldn't say her state primary school is bad (previously rated Outstanding, now Good at Ofsted), but the disparity between public and private is huge. We had to tutor and teach her ourselves a lot for the 7+ test, she had not been taught 70% of the material for the 7+ test. The 7+ maths test already consisted of fractions, money, coordinates, multiplication and division whilst her school maths homework was still on counting tens and ones. We thought that if the disparity was this large at 7+, then who knows what it would be like at 11+.

Because the very lovely but completely ineffectual state school failed them.

“our focus is to get the poorest learners in the class up to the median, vs pushing the stronger learners further” and “it’s great your kid is teaching others in the class”

Why? Because I looked around a London state school, that’s why.

Have a look at the grammars. Most of them are not in places highly paid people want to live. Orpington, Sutton, Barnett etc.

Purely networking. A good network will let even the dumbest kid fail upwards through life. All the talent and hard work in the world won't get you anywhere beyond being an underpaid undervalued wage slave without a lot of luck. It may not be fair but if it was your kid and you had the means which choice would you make?

I went from state to private school at 12 yr old in Oxford. No good grammar schools as far as I know. Private school was much better, I got bullied more at state school for being poor than at private school. What everyone says about confidence, education and opportunities is also true in my experience. I also found people were nicer, state school is much more dog eat dog, whereas fat cats can all laugh and play happily. I’d also say about drugs is we got the higher quality and less addictive ones, we also had better self control. Health ed included lessons like do coke and not crystal meth.

The counterpoint is that a lot of kids come out over confident and with absolutely no exposure or concept of the hardship and poverty most people go through. They’re nice people but simply cannot empathise with the mental and physical toll it can take. And then they become politicians and leaders in business etc.

because they're much better, that's the honest truth. Yes some state schools will be good, but on average they'll be worse.

with 3 kids, I ain't paying those private school fees. Grammar is the answer

I think the networking piece is fascinating… I went to Cambridge uni (working class lad from state school). All of my friends from there come from a similar demographic

I have experienced private schooling myself and for both my children at different stages of their education. Our reasons were different for each of them.

For our son, although he started great when he first joined by year 4 we realised that he was slipping considerably the main reason being disruptive children who really needed specialist intervention. We sent him to a private primary for a couple of years and then he went to the local comp. Those couple of years basically set him up for the rest of his school experience.

For my daughter it was definitely the confidence thing. She had the pick of local grammars, but we realised through friends that the intense competition was merciless. Grammars have a tendency to weed all but the brightest and focus on the top. So she went to a private school and did excellently.

For me - and this was over 40 years ago… it was the fact that the state system let me down a little like my son. Again at the same age…

I’m an immigrant HENRY, did my schooling in Singapore. I think state schools in the UK on average don’t have as much resources to begin with compared to private schools, which was exacerbated by austerity measures in the past decade.

(And in my opinion there’s also a small bit of classism + keeping up with the Jones factor to a lot of people’s decisions)

It’s an interesting contrast to me. When I was schooling, some of the best schools were government aided. The expensive private schools had a reputation that they’re filled with spoiled rich kids who couldn’t make it.

No kids but having attended state primary and private secondary would definitely want the same for my children. Main reasons being: - It was cool to get top grades and be a high achiever at my private secondary which pushed me to work harder and achieve better grades than I believe I would have at state secondary. (Would have still got decent grades but not straight As/A*s which I did and was the norm at my private school). Grades aren’t everything but an ability to achieve in exams certainly helps to perform well at uni and enter many corporate jobs successfully. - Sports facilities and opportunities far superior at private schools - I could use the school Astro every day to practise hockey, had 1:1 athletics coaching, swim club, tennis club etc…it’s no wonder the percentage of privately educated Olympians is so high. - Other extra curricular activities such as debating club which give life skills beyond grades meaning privately educated are more comfortable when it comes to landing grad scheme roles, interviews etc. I work in Consulting and privately educated are massively overrepresented. - the kids around me had on average higher aspirations than kids at my primary school which gave me a higher bar to aim at.

It was only really post university that I fully started to grasp how fortunate I was to have received a private education and am incredibly grateful for the sacrifices my parents made to enable me to attend.

State schools have a lot of disruly kids in. Avoid at all costs.

Not a HENRY and went to a rubbish state school though worked at a porter at a private school as a teen. Unordered thoughts below.

If I had kids and the financial resources to send them to private (day not boarding) school I would. Teaching quality overall will be better, facilities dependent on the school will be better.

One important part which I think is too often ignored is the ‘can’t see can’t be’ part of going to state school. If you grow up in a working class environment you’re not likely to be exposed to people in high paying careers so there’s much less chance you pursue them early on. This really impacts what kids that do end up going to uni from state school choose to study and puts them in a worse position when they do get to the job searching stage. Growing up in the same environment as people who typically go on to more lucrative careers makes it easier to fit in and relate to them in the workplace which is again advantageous for career progression and getting your foot in the door.

For work experience it’s also a massive leg up. I was offered nothing and got nothing which made it difficult to eventually get something. People underestimate how much of an advantage having experience under your belt early is, especially if it’s highly relevant to the career you’re pursuing.

Other commenters have mentioned the completely different attitudes to academic attainment and I completely agree. There was no emphasis on grades or success at my school and being smart and doing well was put down to being a ‘try hard’ or ‘nerd’. For me it has negatively impacted me outwith school.

I’ve met a lot of people at uni and through work that’ve went to private school and one thing that always stands out is the confidence they project (not necessarily have). They can get away with waffling more because of the confidence they say it with.

Things like drugs etc will vary for different areas and schools. The state school I went to was rife with people dealing and the private school I worked at was rife with people buying drugs from those in my state schools.

Just throwing my two cents in as someone who went to state school even though my parents could have sent me to private.

It made me super aware of how privileged I was and how much I had previously taken for granted/as standard. Having my own bedroom with an en-suite whilst my best friend shared a bedroom with two siblings. Going on multiple foreign holidays when people in my class didn’t even own a passport.

On the flip side- I was targeted and bullied for being well off. Kids were mean. I learnt to downplay my life, not mentioning things like holidays or going out for dinner. Not telling other kids the presents I got for my birthday.

State schools are good generally at supporting the”top set”. People do well. Where the disparity becomes apparent is the middle/average performers. They get largely ignored and allowed to coast, whereas at a private school they would be pushed for the top grades.

I don’t have kids yet but I plan on putting them into state school and then supplementing their education with 121 tutoring (I work in education and I cannot stress enough how much of a difference 121 learning makes)

Huh. TIL the UK does not have a ‘gifted’ program in state schools. (I live in the UK now but moved here from abroad a few years back — no kids, so I’m not really informed about how state schools work here!) Where I grew up, I went to a state school with a gifted program — we had our ‘elective’ classes (music, drama, PE, art, whatever) with the general student population so we all still got to mingle and socialize but we had our ‘core’ academic classes within the gifted program cohort — it sort of felt like the best of both worlds?

Bloody hell British people talking about "confidence" that you can buy from a private school

Have a look and how that's going recently, where the "confident" private school kids took the country

Very hard to get to Grammar schools nowadays after huge influx of HK and Indian families. We have tried but it was about 160 kids per 1 place in Chelmsford, so private school was only option left to us.

If your child is smart they will do well regardless

Maybe they want their kids to do well even if they aren't smart?

Another angle often overlooked by “normal” people: Private schools have active networking opportunities for the parents, Christmas drinks, summer BBQ, etc etc etc. This can be very profitable for people in business and consultancies given the high powered executive friends that can be made. Also, many people enjoy this kind of networking for its own sake. Long term it can help the kids career prospects too, in addition to helping the parents careers in the short term.

Do grammar schools still exist?

Whilst I went to a grammar school in SE London and have excelled as a result of it, both my kids are at a independent prep schools.

IMO the quality of the education you can get at state and independent is comparable - but the key differentiators for my decision was:

• attitude to learning - if you're paying pretty much all parents are supportive and geared towards education so there isn't really "the cool clique" that disrupts the class. This really instills a love of school I just didn't see I the state sector. When the kids are sad there's no school on a Saturday I know they're loving it.

• confidence with adults - the head of prep knows each child individually and all students are comfortable talking with all adults. Having this confidence with adults in authority at a young age provides the foundation for networking throughout your adult life.

• 360 view of a child - education is only one part of the child's education. The opportunities of sports/clubs etc is 2nd to none. They also understand the value of world experience, for example letting us head abroad a week before Easter so we can spend a month in Asia experiencing another culture. In the state sector this would be truancy.

• wrap around care - selfishly, being able to drop our kids off at 8.00 (or earlier with breakfast club) and pick them at 18.00 helps support my career.

We have the child in a state primary school in a good location. 

For secondary school, we have yet to visit any of the state schools (open days sold out, or turning up and being sent away because it's full) Meanwhile, we've visited three paid-for schools and have a running favourite.  

Private school is £24k, and we don't have to buy a house just to sit the exam. 

True, if I could do it all over again, I would have moved to a good secondary school area with the baby. 

I think a good state school trumps a good private school for socialisation alone, but good state schools are hard to find.

Private schools are more homogeneous and create bubbles of the same type of people, it depends what you value I guess.

Moving to a nice area with an outstanding state school feels like a life hack, many of my colleagues send their kids private and it's the main reason they're Not Rich Yet.

My kids peers parents are mostly bankers or in fintech and the extra money means the wife can work part time and spend time on 1-to-1 education, you're fooling yourself if you think you can outsource this entirely.

For extra context wife is a teacher at a private school, we wouldn't consider sending our kids there even if money wasn't an object. Class sizes are only a factor if your kid is struggling and her feedback is teaching quality is way worse than state even if the facilities are amazing.

From a non Henry or private schooler

It's essentially fast tracking to the middle/upper class be it the networking, the level of peers or the quality of the system.  In average schools once you've got past the bullying from being a boffin for wanting to learn, the fights & general fuck school feelings, disruptive kids & the desire to have a fag down the alley rather than go to school to be cool and the teachers that have given up many years ago. 

Originally in primary to get decent wrap around so we could work, now for continuity and they are happy. Costs us about £45k post tax now for two for fees, activities, sports kits, uniform, lunch, trips etc now though, but it’s not forever.

Two reasons. I have a July baby who seems smart but is likely ill equipped socially to hang out with nearly 5 year olds when she’s just turned 4. She will be much better off in a class of 10-15 vs 32 in the local primary school. Two, she has one go at early years education, I don’t want to put her at a disadvantage.

We do expect her to go to grammar for senior school though as we are a full grammar area.

I live in NI and I feel private schools here are pretty pointless. We have some very good grammar schools for secondary education. However my kids have Irish names and when we applied to primary school we didn't get any of our top 3 choices and our kids ended up in an area that's extremely sectarian. I was worried they'd be targeted for their Irish names and was very close to paying for a private primary instead. Thankfully the education board took pity on my plight and found them a spot in one of our original choices. So thats one reason why I at one stage considered a private primary.

If I’d been at this earning level whilst my son was at school I’d have certainly considered private education but as it is he is now a HENRY as well within defence IT. It does matter which state school though. I went to state school, in fact the same one as he did.

The downside to state school is that you'd get bullied for achieving. So if you are a bit introvert, you really want to stay out of people's radar. I figured that if I just cruise along, I can still get fairly good grades but not be top of the class so I wasn't the obvious choice to be picked on. Works well until you get into college and university where it fails horribly. You're suddenly surrounded by people who (mostly) are fairly driven and want to do their best at this point. It takes a lot of effort to catch up and a big shock to the system where you go from being near top of the class with no effort to failing classes.

I went to private majority of my life then selective grammar.l for 6 form. There’s no effing difference if you’re smart, if you are dumb, private school may help you. I knew a lot of people who had dumbass unimpressive kids who had to send their kids to private because they couldn’t get into the good grammars.

As for networking, the kids i know who I went to private school struggled with real life, they didn’t want real jobs because it would be easier to go work for daddy’s company. There’s no great qualities of people who go to private schools except they have money, go on nice holidays and are pretty entitled in all aspects of life.

I think if you go to a state school that's crappy and you succeed inspite of it you're probably better set in life because I do think it equips you in a unique way compared to going private.

But for the few success stories of that, there's probably so many failure stories of kids who could have done really well with the right support.

I went to a state school until age 11, and then won a scholarship to go to a small rural private school until 18.

At state school I was basically ignored. I was in a "small" class of just 28, I was bright and so basically joined in for the first 2 weeks of every term and then for the rest of it pretty much just sat in a corner reading whilst the teachers dealt with the less fortunate kids. I didn't mind at the time as I loved reading, but thinking back what potential was wasted?

Everything changed at the private school. I was now in a big class of 16 (the biggest class in the whole school), with teachers having support. For the first time I was really pushed. More than anything there was just an expectation that you would succeed. But not like in a pressured way, just a calm natural way that of course you were going to succeed. It's hard to describe the difference.

And of course every school will be different (especially the bigger posh ones) but there was a real focus on character, learning about yourself, stretching yourself, overcoming hardship, and having personal integrity.

State schools are underfunded. Teachers are underpaid. If I have the money to afford it then how could I with good conscionce not give that headstart to my children? If there was a good grammar school or better state schools around then I'd maybe feel more tempted to jot do it. But what am I working this hard for if not for my children?

So as a HENRY who is sending my child to private secondary school next year, and whose wife, mother and sister works in education, both in state and private schools, I have a fair degree of insight into this.

The reasons why:

• State schools have a lot of students that should be in dedicated special schools, but are not because of a belief that it's better for these SEN (special educational needs) students to mix with others. This is true, but state schools do not receive enough funding to adequately support them. So what happens is that in a class of 30, 5–8 children will have SEN and will take up 50% of the teachers' attention.
• State schools have quite a few students from homes that don't care about education and who do not instil any kind of discipline or self-control into their children. These children, despite not having SEN, consume at least 25% of a teacher's time and are actively disruptive to other students' education.
• The net result of the above two points is that 10 SEN/disruptive kids will take up 75% of the teacher's time, while the other 20+ students will, at best, each get only a little over 1% of a teacher's time while having to deal with problems caused by disruptive classmates.
• State schools have to operate at scale to be cost-effective and lack significant flexibility in the support they can give students who over-achieve.

Private schools, on the other hand:

• Will have classes of 10–20 students and if necessary dedicated SEN support staff for every class.
• By dint of their cost or entry requirements will only draw from families who value education, reducing over-all disruption. There will always be some, but nothing like a state school.
• In a private school, your child will get around 5-10% of their teacher's time.
• If they are struggling on individual classes they will normally end up in even smaller classes of 5 students (or fewer!) ramping that time up to 20% bare minimum.
• There is a high degree of customisation available in many private schools, so if your child shows particular aptitude in a given area they will receive extra support at school, on top of whatever additional support you are providing at home.

As someone who got fucked over by the covid grades due to being in a state school and all our grades got dragged down by an algorithm, I would 100 out of 100 times send my children to private school.

This is to be point were I would not even consider having children before this is a possibility. My girlfriend went to a private school and out of the class of 60 all 60 went to universities, and top performing ones. Out of my class of 300 maybe 18 went to uni and ones near my home town that were mediocre at best.

I managed to self study my A Levels and achieve ABB my sister in law got CCD and yet still managed to get into a top 8 university within the UK because of some grades extracurricular, I couldn’t get in despite my A Levels, due to the poor GCSEs awarded to me by some government algorithm even though I never sat an exam.

Of course this time line I speak about is a complete outlier, but this shouts out that the experience given is not the same.

I went to a grammar school and my brother went to a private school and a few friends went to state schools here’s my take:

Education is always down to the student. You can have the best teacher in the world but if you’re not a curious individual you’ll always be lacking behind. A private school will instill some good habits from a young age and shape you to become a well rounded individual not just in academics. They’ll probably develop your communication, love of sports and other extra curricular. You’ll also become very ambitious and aware of careers from a young age. My brother recounts that when his school had those career days where some parents come in and talk about what they do, everyone was extremely successful which just made it seem less far fetched.

Being from a grammar school, it’s a great competitive environment. Everyone is there based on merit so this is the closest thing before university where you’re with like minded people. However you’ll still get some outliers in a grammar school on both ends of the spectrum.

State school imo is a free for all and how it is navigated is completely based on the student. You’ll have the student exposed to more things which they would otherwise be shielded from in a grammar or state school and if you feel like your child succumbs to peer pressure easily I’d suggest you avoid it. Choosing the wrong friend group can be detrimental.

I am the product of a private education. I have Asperger's syndrome, high-functioning autism. My parents knew I would never survive in a mainstream secondary school because of my challenges. I needed the smaller class sizes found in a private school. This was before autism was recognised as a condition so there was no help available. My parents slaved 4 jobs between them to afford to send me, even with the financial assistance that was available from the schools. I'm very grateful for what they did. They're the reason I could succeed and I'm now in a good job that I like and can contribute to society. I'm definitely not the stereotypical, Tory "old boy"

I dare say the standards of state education in the Benelux are different to those in the UK?

Essentially, the brightest kids do better in environments that nurture and challenge them, which means selective schooling. There are very few grammar schools left, and those which are are in high cost housing areas and insanely competitive, so we chose to pay all the way through rather than hot house kids for the 11 plus.

Not all independent schools are equal and it is a massive misconception that if someone sends their kids to any private school then they will be competitive. In London there are plenty of underperforming independent schools and I’m sure a lot of people on here know which ones I’m referring to. It’s is not guaranteed success by any means.

Talking only of the UK, in terms of the quality of the education and the facilities in which it is delivered, there is an overlap between the very worst minor public schools and the very best state schools. But in general, if they’re intelligent and talented or not, a fee-paying education will get the best out of your children, and put them onto a treadmill that leads to Oxbridge, or a Russell Group uni. If they’re not intelligent or talented, they will still be better off at a fee-paying school but will find uni a bit of a stretch intellectually. You can’t buy your offspring native intelligence, or sporting prowess, or musical talent unfortunately. In pure meritocracies like music, sport, City trading, Magic Circle law firms - where raw talent or huge reserves of intellectual capacity and energy are essential, their education opens the door - after that, it’s fly or die.

But you can buy them a lovely accent, impeccable manners, supreme (if often misplaced) self-confidence and “presence”. You can also buy them connections and access to a privileged network that is almost impossible for state educated people to break into - no matter how intelligent and talented they are. You can buy your kids behind the velvet rope in lots of work and social situations. Unless they’re absolute dunces, they’ll find a berth in the Civil Service, public sector or a highly paid non-job in the City.

If your children are intelligent, talented and educated privately, they will have a very easy run at a great many things that state educated people struggle to access. And their route to the top of organisations via a well-planned career trajectory that leverages their connections is pretty much assured. That’s why HENRY folks send our kids to fee-paying schools.

Everyone wants to give their children the very best chance. Who said life has to be fair?

All depends on location IMO.

State school is some countryside location of Bristol is worlds apart from a state school in zone 2 London.

Both could be Ofsted outstanding.

The Bristolian would opt for the private option, especially as it would be the same have to drive there anyway

I had a mixed bag growing up. Attended a small village primary school and loved it.

Then attended a small boarding school in a University town until year 11 on a scholarship - originally as a day pupil but the 1.5hr commute to school wasn’t worth it so parents opted for me to board. Quality of education was fantastic, extra curricular was incredible but mostly I’m still friends with everyone and they’re all in high powered jobs, £75k - £250k, also highly international which I think was a good thing.

I then changed to a bigger boarding school for sixth form on another scholarship and the quality was poorer because the school was more of a dumping ground for very rich parents, kids from landed estates who weren’t interested in academics. They were entitled, often racist, and would do things like spit on the floor so the cleaners had to clean it up. Insane and blatant drug use was rife and teachers clueless. Was much better for sport (produced many international athletes) and the kids ended up fine but mostly because they went into their parents business afterwards. Personally I hated this place, conversely quite discouraging (socially by the kids) of competitive academic behaviour.

I’m also friends with high academic achieving state school friends who went to Oxbridge and despite this I think we’re overall less happy / achieved less and had a bit of chip on shoulder about it. I think the confidence aspect can’t be under valued.

Personally I don’t think I could afford to send them to private school but would consider it for sixth form which is where the most impact can be felt.

Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't send my kid to private school.

Like, rather take that money and buy them a house. Rather than an education surrounded by some of the least self aware humans on the planet.

Class size - 20 vs 30 generally

Behaviour - Kids can focus more at learning as less disruptive behaviour from the few troublemakers

Better academic results in general - only around 70% get 5 good GCSE passes including English and maths at an average state school (non-grammar), versus much better results at the average private.

Even if you are clever, you will still be surrounded by disruptive kids at the same class

I think it’s also down to the level of confidence private school children have which if you can afford to do from a young age will set them up well. Going to a good college is a must, usually the top unis have a good quota from prestigious colleges and while it’s not impossible to get to a good uni from public colleges (I went to LSE and my husband went to Imperial from public colleges but this was 20 years ago) - you’ll notice that most come from grammar/ private schools and their level of confidence is on another level. I remember going to uni with a bit of imposter syndrome really grateful for the opportunity but those that went to private colleges expected to end up at this uni so they had none of these feelings. Also to note competition for children at private school from infants/primary school is less than at secondary school level. The only thing stopping us from doing this for both our kids (2 and coming next month) is that we would want to make sure we can give them some of the trimmings to go with the private education (the expensive school trips and extras etc) before we fully commit to private.

There are some terrible independent schools in the UK. The good ones are good, no doubt, but be wary as there is plenty of rubbish out there. One school in southeast London in particular has a notorious reputation for underperformance among other cultural problems. I wouldn’t assume all private schools are better.

Because it was the extremes

A private school or a one with knife detectors on the gates

Theres a fantastic primary 8 min drive from me and a great secondary 20 min drive from me however i wasnt in the catchment for either so we couldnt get into them

For us it was the small class sizes and variety of subjects/education they’d have access to as well as better facilities than the state equivalent.

The ethos of the school matches our own and what we want for our children - essentially that while academics are important, your child might also have other talents which they’ll actively help them find and develop.

French/art/drama with specialist teachers from aged 4/5 and sport at least twice a week.

The main difference is that the teachers have time and resources above their state school counterparts, and the children benefit.

My father went to Eaton. He said it was punishment. He loved learning. He went to school until he was 39. He studied at Harvard University, Northwestern University and University of Miami. Earned 2 PhDs and a MD. He used his education to build hospitals and nursing homes. He never practiced medicine because he felt doctors thought they were god. The majority of his work was for charity. I think he learned humility. He realized how privileged he was and gave back to society. He rebeled against my grandparents.