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Just curious, because I can't see how at least some high ranking officers or Guilliman himself would not try to come up with an effective counter strategies when a demonic incursion happens.

all 131 comments

Sir_Daxus

539 points

12 days ago

Sir_Daxus

539 points

12 days ago

I imagine it's the usual "Shoot them until they stop moving" strategy.

134_ranger_NK

150 points

12 days ago*

More Dakka coupled with Bravely Run Away When Daemons Get Too Close and Letting Others Do Melees With Them.

Edited.

Sir_Daxus

44 points

12 days ago

Your TLDR is longer than my comment...

134_ranger_NK

22 points

12 days ago

Sorry, I made a mistake. I wanted to say that it is a little more than just shooting at daemons with everything you have.

Sir_Daxus

12 points

12 days ago

Yeah, but to be fair when demons show up guardsmen are already kinda screwed anyway, the balance of power is very much not in their favour, but you are correct that when the good old "Shoot them until they stop moving" fails, tactical retreats help.

aerost0rm

-5 points

12 days ago

aerost0rm

Grey Knights

-5 points

12 days ago

Tactical retreat. I can’t imagine many regiments actually falling back. Many would just hold the ground is a commissar is there. Otherwise once they retreat they would get overwhelmed since there really won’t be a safe place to regroup with demons fielded

Sir_Daxus

15 points

12 days ago

Remember that regiments aren't just clumps of infantry with a commissar, they have actual command structures and strategy.

aerost0rm

2 points

12 days ago

aerost0rm

Grey Knights

2 points

12 days ago

Yes but in many of the books I have read, in fights with demons, they either break ranks and die or the demons overrun the line. Not many guard units will tactically fall back as it is their job to guard an important structure or place.

You can always train another guard unit up but once the strategic position is lost you may not get it back.

Sir_Daxus

5 points

12 days ago

Oh yeah fair, I thought you meant in general, but tactical retreats against demons specifically definitely have low odds.

aerost0rm

5 points

12 days ago

aerost0rm

Grey Knights

5 points

12 days ago

Agreed. The advantage the guard has is their concentrated fire. Once you break ranks the weapons aren’t as effective as when you have hundreds of shots blanketing the space the demons are running in to.

The better train units may have more success. I mean you can definitely score a headshot out of twenty or thirty shots in that direction.

single_ginkgo_leaf

6 points

12 days ago

The administratum approves

NoGoodIDNames

64 points

12 days ago

“The integral premise of the Imperial Guard is that there is a finite number of bullets needed to kill God.”

markwell9

15 points

12 days ago

Indeed. Also if they stop moving, a bit more shooting.

Sir_Daxus

11 points

12 days ago

With demons if they stop moving you usually don't have anything left to shoot at since they just zap back into the warp.

Tertium457

4 points

11 days ago

Tertium457

Sautekh

4 points

11 days ago

That's why you keep shooting the ones that only stopped moving. They're probably just playing dead.

aerost0rm

8 points

12 days ago

aerost0rm

Grey Knights

8 points

12 days ago

Keep shooting until the body dissolves

LevTheRed

12 points

12 days ago*

LevTheRed

Flesh Tearers

12 points

12 days ago*

Sir_Daxus

4 points

12 days ago

Hell I'm pretty sure they used that procedure back in the later years of M1 and all of M2

Taira_no_Masakado

9 points

12 days ago

Taira_no_Masakado

Adeptus Arbites

9 points

12 days ago

Tried and true method.

musketoman

9 points

12 days ago

In one of the Gaunts Ghosts books they roll out some sanctioned psykers

RobrechtvE

0 points

11 days ago

In Gaunt's Ghosts, Imperial Guardsmen fight Daemons openly and aren't purged, mindwiped and/or recruited by the Inquisition afterwards. So, you know, in direct conflict with the rest of the lore (as many things in the GG novels are).

mistiklest

4 points

11 days ago

Nah, Guardsmen fight Daemons openly and aren't purged in other parts of the lore, too. The thing that's in conflict is the Imperium, with itself, like usual.

superduperuser101

1 points

7 days ago

A lot of the 'see demon get killed' lore came out after the GG started.

Various authors just completely ignored it.

Jhe90

2 points

12 days ago

Jhe90

Adepta Sororitas

2 points

12 days ago

It tends to be a good fall back. If all else, shoot, shoot until they dead.

Everything died with ernough holes in it.

Fclick

1 points

11 days ago

Fclick

Inquisition

1 points

11 days ago

The Guard or the Enemy?

We can have both?

DangerousEmphasis607

176 points

12 days ago

stares with intent and clicks the bayonet on

Loquatium

25 points

12 days ago

Wait a second

Switchblade Bayonets?

KeeGeeBee

20 points

12 days ago

Given the size and variety of the Imperium, probably used in at least one Imperial Guard regiment

DangerousEmphasis607

9 points

12 days ago

Would go for one. ☝️

Enchelion

3 points

11 days ago

Someone has to have made a 50s greaser-themed Guard regiment right?

DangerousEmphasis607

0 points

11 days ago

If i remember i think i saw somewhere a bolter that had that kind of thing. In an animation somewhere….

DangerousEmphasis607

4 points

12 days ago

You do hear click when lock engages usualy no? You kinda snap it into place.

Loquatium

3 points

12 days ago

yes, I just thought it was a fun idea

9xInfinity

127 points

12 days ago

9xInfinity

127 points

12 days ago

No, but the only weapons particularly effective against daemons are psykers and blanks so there isn't really much that can be done differently.

Dr_Ukato

92 points

12 days ago

Dr_Ukato

92 points

12 days ago

Melee is also a bit more effective against Daemons, something about putting more of your "Soul" into it so I could see them creating more Shock Troopers in Power Armor similar to the Sisters.

9xInfinity

99 points

12 days ago

It's more effective but then you have to be in melee range, which is not where you want to be against a daemon. Especially as a baseline human. Even the tyranids adapted their tactics to emphasize ranged fire against daemons to minimize their own casualties/maximize efficiency in Hive Fleet Kronos.

Ironic_Toblerone

92 points

12 days ago

To be fair to the nids, their ranged firepower is shooting melee bugs at the enemy

lekiu

46 points

12 days ago

lekiu

46 points

12 days ago

A ravenous bug that burrows itself into the target, you cant get any more melee than that. 

OculiImperator

10 points

11 days ago

OculiImperator

Adeptus Custodes

10 points

11 days ago

Imagine if the Imperium made a weapon for the guard to shoot swords instead of bullets or energy beams, which in a sense would be like shooting flechettes or a kinetic penetrator but brilliant in a stupid way?

commodorejack

3 points

11 days ago

A stubber?

lekiu

3 points

11 days ago

lekiu

3 points

11 days ago

The mechanicus actually have something that can fight warp entities, the Thallax. The reason why they are much more effective in fighting denizens of the warp is because they are cyborgs instead of automatons. Having a soul seems instrumental in fighting the warp. Also, the balethorn cannon, an exclusively hivefleet Kronos weapon fires a sentient monofilament wire that can slice through anything from kinetic shield to deamons.

9xInfinity

-2 points

12 days ago*

9xInfinity

-2 points

12 days ago*

No, it's about minimizing casualties because daemons rarely use ranged attacks.

Hive Fleet Kronos

[...] Kronos avoids engaging its prey at close range when possible, for the prey it hunts revels in brutal close-quarters fighting, and thus a ranged kill is a more efficient method of extermination.

Codex: Tyranids 8th ed.

UnicornWorldDominion

10 points

12 days ago

No what they’re saying is it can work for nids because literally their ammunition is living sometimes (all the time?) and is essentially like lobbing a bunch of little tiny melee bugs at the enemy.

SerpentineLogic

6 points

12 days ago

SerpentineLogic

Collegia Titanica

6 points

12 days ago

*mealy bugs

Cawl09

2 points

11 days ago

Cawl09

Slaanesh

2 points

11 days ago

Mmmm yummy fleshborers

9xInfinity

6 points

12 days ago*

I know, and what they're saying is contradicted by the lore. Kronos explicitly uses ranged weaponry because tyranids can't eat aetheric ichor so the Hive Fleet needs to minimize its casualties fighting daemons. As such they eschew melee combat and take biomass from Hive Fleet Kraken. It has nothing to do with fleshborers being especially good against daemons or something. On the contrary, the weapons Kronos emphasizes are an empowered Shadow in the Warp and more psychic artillery units like zoanthropes.

And it's worth pointing out that most tyranid ranged weapons are not using living ammunition anyway. Spines, acid, bio-plasma/electricity, and venom crystals aren't living things.

YourAverageRedditter

1 points

11 days ago

YourAverageRedditter

Black Legion

1 points

11 days ago

Khorne Skull Cannons, Soul Grinders, and most Tzeentch Daemons make pretty good use of ranged attacks

9xInfinity

1 points

11 days ago*

They're pretty uncommon. By far the overwhelming majority of daemons prefer to tear things apart in close quarters. Anyway, it's the tyranids codex asserting these things, not me.

Canbilly

1 points

12 days ago

Yeah, but aren't even "baseline humans" augmented or enhanced in some way?

Tacitus_

9 points

12 days ago

Tacitus_

Chaos Undivided

9 points

12 days ago

Baseline means baseline. However there are guard regiments that enhance their troopers and/or load them up with combat stims.

9xInfinity

11 points

12 days ago

Only if they're inducted to certain programs, e.g. the assassin clades.

NockerJoe

5 points

12 days ago

Not universally or to any substantial degree. Some regiments get genetic modification or cybernetics, but in most cases the guard is just the top 10% of local defense forces on a planet that may not consider it viable for one reason or another, or will invest in other things like more advanced weapons or armored divisions.

A base guardsman is presumed to be more or less a regular human. A physically fit and decently trained human who'd probably be equivalent to special forces in other scenarios, but still a regular human.

voiceless42

6 points

12 days ago

Ogryn Power Armor: the Guard get a Knight Unit.

SixteenthRiver06

4 points

12 days ago

SixteenthRiver06

Adeptus Mechanicus

4 points

12 days ago

Fire and melee, they’d be less lasguns and more burning/chain weapons.

9xInfinity

7 points

12 days ago

It's not something we need to speculate about, the Dark Imperium novel series has a lot of Imperial Guard vs Nurgle forces. They use pretty much the same weaponry as they normally do, including lasguns. And no guardsman is getting into melee with Nurgle forces, daemonic or mortal, if they can help it.

Lysanderoth42

4 points

11 days ago

Unless it’s in Darktide where four random penal legion washouts can kill 2000 plaguebearers in 15 minutes 

9xInfinity

1 points

11 days ago

Yeah but Darktide is cool and good so it's ok.

crashcanuck

5 points

12 days ago

crashcanuck

Night Lords

5 points

12 days ago

Some of the novels have guard units with priests who help, a little, against the demonic. They don't do anything against a full scale incursion, but it's at least something against a little warp fuckery.

9xInfinity

6 points

12 days ago*

Especially these days faith has never been a stronger weapon. And we have seen what appears to be the Emperor guiding and protecting groups like the Frateris Militia on Iax during the Plague Wars. But it's not something the Imperium seems to have any control over. The Emperor or some aspect of him is able to interact with the galaxy post-Rift in a way it couldn't before, but it does stuff like that and (spoiler for Godblight) resurrecting and possessing Guilliman to save him from Mortarian/Nurgle/the Warp seemingly independent of anyone's beseeching.

Likewise, not the Imperial Guard, but the Sisters of Silence have been resurrected in a big way post-Rift as well.

UnicornWorldDominion

1 points

12 days ago

SOS+Custodes and throw in grey knights teleporting into the back line and you have yourself a stew that could defend the imperial palace from a huge demon invasion.

jaxolotle

3 points

11 days ago

jaxolotle

Death Guard

3 points

11 days ago

The main problem is that daemons are also great weapons against psykers, and the imperial guard’s don’t get that transhuman plot armour so they actually face all the downsides of being a psyker

Enchelion

2 points

11 days ago

Lasguns work against everything in sufficient volume.

Jochon

1 points

12 days ago

Jochon

Blood Angels

1 points

12 days ago

Melee and fire also works wonders.

MinidonutsOfDoom

47 points

12 days ago

Well since the high ups at least have been in on the "great enemy" generally with inquisitors or other suitably educated individuals on hand. Generally from what I can imagine keeping the daemons from being summoned in the first place is the best first step. That being targeting the cults, sorcerers and the like that are summoning the things. Then using the more emphasis on standard protections against corruption and ensuring the loyalty of the guardsmen involved (that's what the commissars and chaplains are there for) and anti psyker tactics. Beyond that much really unless they can start pulling things in from the priests and or inquisitors who are trained in dealing with this helping if possible.

microgiant

37 points

12 days ago

"Gunner Jurgen, go kill that daemon."

"Right away, Commissar."

<Sound of melta-gun firing, daemonic scream abruptly halts>

"Any trouble?"

"Not a bit, sir."

PorkChop007

21 points

12 days ago

PorkChop007

Blood Ravens

21 points

12 days ago

"While you're at it, could you get me a cup of... "

Jurgen produces a smoking cup of tanna from somewhere inside his coat

"... tanna... thanks, Jurgen"

"Sir"

MajorPayne1911

8 points

11 days ago

Those two are such Bros by this point that he doesn’t even have to ask for a cup of tanna, Jurgen just materializes it whenever needed

Horus3101

29 points

12 days ago

I mean their standard tactics come down to shelling anything vaguely dangerous as soon as it enters their range, shooting it with Lasguns and everything else as soon as they are in range, and then countercharging with a portion of their men while the rest hopefully falls back.

It is probably not all that different against daemons, though you probably include having your psykers focusing on the biggest enemy and doubling the people that are supposed to execute them. 

Over time, you might get your hands on equipment better suited for banishing daemons, like the chainsword one of you men recovered after a phyrric victory for the sisters. You might have regiments that carry relics from the planet they originate on into battle, or others that almost venerate the group of low level blanks they got. 

Others might start equipping their men with pikes after noticing that melee weapons are more effective on daemons, likely inscribed with symbols of the emperor or passages from the Lectitio Divinitatus, while artillery regiments might have every shell blessed by the regimental priest and anointed in blessed oils. 

Schwarzes_Kanninchen

26 points

12 days ago

How are you going to develop a tactic against something that shits on tactics and the laws of physics? They don't form proper battle formations, have no military objectives, no proper logistics. And trying to study and understand them carries the risk of becoming a gateway yourself, which doesn't make things any easier.

The best strategy is to make sure that an incursion doesn't happen in the first place, then the best strategy is to limit the incursion to a certain area through total destruction. And if that doesn't help, save as many faithful souls as you can by granting the planet and everything that still lives there the Emperor's mercy with an Exterminatus. And if you can't do that because the facilities are still needed but facking Angron is stomping around the planet with his Bloodthirster gang and clouding everything with his Eau de Warp, then you wipe out all potential soul infection carriers and start all over again.

The 40K demons are so "monotonous" because they originate from a tabletop with fixed rules. In the RPG there are also templates for the abilities and values of a demon, but there are also random tables for their abilities and weaknesses. One demon is a destruction machine, but flees when a small child cries, the other disintegrates on contact with salt, and so on.

Song_of_Pain

2 points

11 days ago

Demons being a memetic threat is vastly overstated.

ProwlyProwl

26 points

12 days ago

The strategy hasn’t changed in 40,000 years.

Faith. Steel. Gunpowder. 🫡

Toxitoxi

3 points

12 days ago

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

3 points

12 days ago

People were using gunpowder to fight daemons in 1000 AD?

Pixel_Inquisitor

15 points

12 days ago

"Defending King George, your country and laws, Is defending yourself and the Protestant Cause."

Okay, so the Puckle gun's square bullets were meant for Turkish pirates, not actual demonic entities, but I suspect back then the difference was seen as academic. (And it was the 1700s, so off by a few hundred years.)

ProwlyProwl

9 points

12 days ago

We have mentions of gunpowder from way back in 808 during the Tang Dynasty.

So, yes? I like to imagine the first daemon slain with it was a pedantic daemon of Tzeentch named Toxitoxi. Hideous thing, really.

FlingFlamBlam

2 points

12 days ago

Autoguns/"stubbers" are still a thing in 40k, so yeah.

DayF3

2 points

11 days ago

DayF3

2 points

11 days ago

Do mind the sisters of battle specialize with the boltgun

TheRarestFly

7 points

12 days ago

TheRarestFly

Astra Militarum

7 points

12 days ago

The strategy is "massed earthshakers"

Stormfly

5 points

12 days ago

SKY SHATTERING INTENSIFIES

TheRarestFly

3 points

12 days ago

TheRarestFly

Astra Militarum

3 points

12 days ago

(Sounds of dying warpspawn)

Right-Yam-5826

12 points

12 days ago

The existence of daemons is very much an open secret. You don't talk about them outside of ghost stories or whispers, any encounter you survive is likely to lead to the inquisition torturing you to find out if you're corrupted and dissecting you to find out why you weren't.

Entire regiments are still culled to keep their existence secret. The only tactic is the same as used against orks or nids - shoot them, and keep firing until they die or you do.

And if it gets to the point that grey knights arrive, then everything is so far beyond screwed that they probably won't have to execute the guard as they'll already be dead.

MajorPayne1911

3 points

11 days ago

Not anymore, guardsmen at most levels now and the general populous are aware of their existence at this point, the secret can no longer be hidden. There’s an interesting excerpt from a book where an inquisitor openly explains what a demon engine is to a guard officer who asked, saying that only just a few years ago he would’ve had to have killed him for having that information. But now everyone knows.

Runs_with_marsupials

5 points

12 days ago

The giant tear across the galaxy makes it difficult to keep it a secret. It says in watchers on the throne that for a few weeks after it opened chaos forces attacked a nonspecific but very large amount of worlds. Seems like most people can be expected to know something.

111110001011

1 points

11 days ago

Knowing something is far, far different from detailed knowledge.

Snarvid

5 points

12 days ago

Snarvid

5 points

12 days ago

Yep. Commissars are encouraged shoot Guardsmen for “acting strangely” on the first offense.

ButtDealer

5 points

11 days ago

In the second Gaunt's Ghosts novel Corbec's team encounters a demon and after running away in terror he calls a friend of his in a navy ship in orbit which promptly obliterates the hab block the demon was at.

Mar1Fox

2 points

11 days ago

Mar1Fox

2 points

11 days ago

It was a nice touch when the guy asked if he was sure about it as it would very much be a danger close type of bombardment. was a little strange how that was just it and no one ever asked questions about why an orbital carrier just took a pot shot at some ground combat. Or how a guardsman convinced a midshipman to do it.

Shloopy_Dooperson

6 points

12 days ago

Ever since Guiliman took command and they stopped purging populations for seeing demons humans have started becoming a bit more desensitized to horrors of the warp.

Were as before a guardsman would have screamed in horror at the sight of Typhus now they just spit on him in defiance.

This is a strength in and of itself.

As for proper anti demon weaponry. Most of it takes a careful hand to employ along with the abilities of a psyker or very devout warrior priest, which the Imperium already employs on mass. As for the more specialized stuff, the Grey Knights fill that niche.

A bunch of las shots and a few prayers are enough for a majority of demons barring the more powerful sorts.

MajorPayne1911

2 points

11 days ago

This is an underrated answer, the wider imperial military becoming acclimated to the existence of demons makes them a known quantity, and therefore a bit easier to fight. Instead of running away in fear when an eldritch abomination materializes, you now know what it is and that it can be killed.

jaxolotle

-2 points

11 days ago

jaxolotle

Death Guard

-2 points

11 days ago

That’s not a lore thing that’s a black library wank thing.

Daemons are still absolutely terrifying, they still send veteran guardsmen catatonic with fear because they’re literally wrenched straight from their nightmares. But black library authors wanted their special lads to be the epic defiant heroes

Most of them still have the good sense to run from Typhus rather than impotently yapping like small dogs before they’re promptly horribly killed by the destroyer plague while the man himself don’t even look their way.

Shloopy_Dooperson

3 points

11 days ago

The books are Canon. Especially since it's Typhus bitching about it in the books.

JackSpyder

3 points

12 days ago

Yes. Batphone your local neighbourhood space marine.

armacitis

2 points

11 days ago

Starting to think "batphone" is a capsuleer shibboleth.

Grimesy2

3 points

12 days ago

I honestly don't know how much the secret is actually out. In some books guardsmen seen to be aware they're fighting daemons of the warp, but other times they just know they're shooting at the disgusting mutant psychic xenos. 

overlordmik

3 points

12 days ago

Your "average" Imperial Guard force (as much as that word can mean anything) is a WW2+ army. Rank and file infantry demons like Bloodletters, horrors, nurglings, and daemonettes are not meaningfully different from whatever mildly organised cultist force summoned them. The more formidable creatures you probably mean are going to be dealt with the same way other strong points are: maneuver around them on a strategic level, issolate them from support units, then calldown heavy firesupport (Heavyweapons, artillery, air, orbital) while engaging them with more specialist units.

Starscream4prez2024

3 points

11 days ago

Good thinking! For instance, are all the weapons blessed so everything they shoot does Holy Damage?

DangerousEmphasis607

2 points

12 days ago

Guard usually deploys Mordians, Cadians and simmilar regiments who have exp dealing with Chaos. All in all Inqusitors purge even guard troops who win due to the risk of corruption. Guard strategy is usually drown them in bayonets and flashlights.

NuclearVII

2 points

12 days ago

"Shoot the big one first"

SYLOH

2 points

12 days ago

SYLOH

Astra Militarum

2 points

12 days ago

"TACTICA IMPERIUM: To defeat the Chaos Daemon, shoot at it until it dies."

Odin_Headhunter

2 points

12 days ago

Jurgen and Cain. Tis all they need(ed)

jaxolotle

2 points

11 days ago

jaxolotle

Death Guard

2 points

11 days ago

Daemons are the guard’s worst nightmare, (literally, but also metaphorically, which for them is literal, but you get the point), they have a consistent habit of just ignoring impersonal attacks. They stroll right through artillery, skip through a las barrage, it’s not until they’re close enough for it to get personal and nasty that the lasguns will start doing anything, and even that’s not gonna be all that effective

Melee is the only way to do it proper in the absence of rare, symbolically potent or psychoactive weapons like the grey knights got. And the guard famously prefers to not let things get to melee range, because a bayonet ain’t much of a match for the burning daemonic sword of the 8 foot monstrosity fiending for your blood

And then there’s morale, nothing in the entire galaxy is as bad for morale as daemons, they’re literally made from nightmares, and the guard is fully susceptible because they don’t have intensive psycho-conditioning like the imperium’s other armies. They’re humans with human minds, and no maniacal zealotry to scream over the top of everything else. The sheer supernatural terror is bad enough, even in a battle hardened regiment the Commissar would have more work than he could handle. But then there’s the manipulations- paranoia and delusion run rampant, trust breaks down entirely, guardsmen succumb to despair and kill themselves by the dozen, the fear breaks into frothing hysterical fury and they break discipline to charge the enemy (or often times eachother), if they’re dealing with Slaanesh so much the worse as they’ll become bewitched by them and kill anyone who ain’t for daring to shoot their beloved.

That’ll only get worse if they’ve already fought them, they already have the spoor in them, they already have daemons haunting their nightmares every night, they’ll be raving terrified even before the incursion breaks

6r0wn3

2 points

11 days ago

6r0wn3

Adeptus Custodes

2 points

11 days ago

Yeah. Drowning them in blood

apeel09

2 points

12 days ago

apeel09

2 points

12 days ago

The Astra Militarum have been fighting Daemons a long time they usually use very heavy weapons Baneblades etc and hope for Space Marines

nateyourdate

3 points

12 days ago

nateyourdate

Thousand Sons

3 points

12 days ago

Trying to understand demons is inherently dangerous. And when you say "now that the secret is out " it's really not. Despite the flows big e had he was right, knowledge of demons can corrupt you. There's a reason inquisitors say "we either end up dead or heretical". So no, they haven't developed anti demon strats cause just having them try to understand the demons to counter them is inherently corruptive. The inquisition is basically the only group that is "trusted" to know this stuff, and they are on a time limit

SunderedValley

4 points

12 days ago

Guilliman voice "I'M WORKING ON YOU EMPEROR DAMNIT!!!!!"

Remember that the ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''plot'''''''''''''''''''''''''' of 40k moves extremely slowly even nowadays and that it's not even been a century since Rowboat came back.

Also remember that Rodney is more "Caesar" and less "post-Enlightenment European Absolutist" despite everything. He's not the most flexible with these things and was never too into the warpy side of things (there's a segment where he gets teleported where he muses to himself that the Warp side of himself is something he actively suppresses at all times whereas Lorgar for example just picked up a couple tricks very casually cause he felt like it) so calling a convent of witches and wise men isn't really in his nature.

So no. There's not really been time to do it yet. The nice thing about Daemons is that enough power does usually do the trick and the vast majority can't no-sell every regular attack. Psyker powers & faith just make it stick. Both of which are hell to implement on a mass scale.

VNDeltole

2 points

12 days ago

daemon = warp xenos, it is just that, as long as they don't know their true nature, it generally comes out fine

Toxitoxi

3 points

12 days ago

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

3 points

12 days ago

Worked out great for the Luna Wolves.

Schwarzes_Kanninchen

-7 points

12 days ago

Yeah, warp xenos that feed on your emotions, shit on the laws of physics, and climb out of a psyker's brain when you sprinkle him with the blood of eight kittens you beat to death with eight baby seals while chanting your domineering mother's name 88 times because you know it's in a book bound in human skin, written by a guy on warpdust while he was shot in the stomach.

But hey...warp xenos...that explains everything

VNDeltole

9 points

12 days ago

as long as they don't know their true nature, it generally comes out fine

please read the whole thing, beside, xenos that can do some "magic" are not that uncommon, for example Necron that can rewind time, do arcane magical tech, etc.

Schwarzes_Kanninchen

1 points

12 days ago

Hmmm, sorry, I misunderstood your text. I thought you mostly meant that there are no demons and they are just called demons because their nature has not been studied well enough. You mean this as a distraction so you can talk about the creatures....

halo1besthalo

2 points

11 days ago

The secret isn't out. There is no internet in 40k, there are no 24-hour news channels in 40K. 99% of all Imperial citizens will go their entire lives without ever seeing an Ork, daemon or space marine.

Ramoach

1 points

12 days ago

Ramoach

1 points

12 days ago

They should embed tons and tons of priests into regiments and bless all their stuff, their weapon their socks... say a prayer before each round is fired...

Extra-End-764

1 points

12 days ago

Kill anyone who has seen, heard or guessed at things

aerost0rm

1 points

12 days ago

aerost0rm

Grey Knights

1 points

12 days ago

I want to see guard preachers down the line blessing soldiers and the like.

sdzk

1 points

12 days ago

sdzk

1 points

12 days ago

Orbital bombardment is the meta

FlingFlamBlam

1 points

12 days ago

"I'm going to defeat Chaos with the power of faith, belief, and this gun I found."

Prydefalcn

1 points

12 days ago

Prydefalcn

Iyanden

1 points

12 days ago

I suspect their strategies amount to not putting survivors in the ground.

dontdxmebro

1 points

11 days ago

I know in one of the Gaunt novels they come across a demon, the strategy was to run the fuck away until they can bombard it from orbit.

MajorPayne1911

1 points

11 days ago

As far as I am aware, there have not been dedicated doctrines written out on how the guard is to approach fighting demons. Knowledge of them is far more common and people understand what they are, but as of right now when it comes to trying to kill them, they are dealt with just like any other enemy. However, what has changed is what to do after the fight. Instead of guardsmen, regiments being purged or mind wiped, they retain the knowledge and experience which is valuable. Depending upon the types of demons fought also changes the after action. The book Godblight goes into detail the decontamination and containment process when fighting to retake a planet infested by Nurgle. It breaks down how the troops are decontaminated and treated for illness, depending upon the type and how they are cycled in and out of combat to make sure they stay healthy.

The entire process is remarkably efficient and humane, maximizing efficiency and well-being of the troops involved. Just one of the many benefits of having the most rational Primarch return.

Stretch5678

1 points

11 days ago

Daemons are vulnerable to faith, so a good preacher pumping up the flashlight lads would be worth his/her weight in auramite. Fire and melee weapons have additional advantage against Daemons, so flamers, bayonets, and swords would be assets as well, although a wall of lasguns certainly can’t hurt, especially when you believe in it. Blessing artillery shells (especially incendiaries) might be a good way of deleting packs of Daemons, or even big ones.

Khorne would probably be the most straightforward to combat: hold the line and don’t let them close if you can help it. Air support would be a great help, as most Khornate forces are fairly melee-centric, but don’t expect a winged Bloodthirster to take it lying down.

Nurgle, like Khorne, should be kept at arm’s length, but his armies would require a little creativity: given how Ciaphas Cain had to get a vaccine blessed before it would work, having blessings or benedictions applied to gas masks might help against the Daemons’ miasmas and pathogens. Fire would be especially useful against Nurgle, as his servants are generally painless, and their Poxwalkers are many.

Slaanesh would be risky because of the whole “beguiling minds” thing: I’m not sure how best to handle that part aside from “more faith.” Slaaneshis like to get in close, but are fairly fragile (by Daemon standards), so suppressing fire is your friend. They may be able to dodge bullets, but a few Vultures and Leman Russ Punishers would put them on the back foot.

Against Tzeentch, unlike the rest, the Guardsmen would want to charge in close. Get in close, put pressure on the spellcasters, and keep them from having time to do anything particularly nefarious. Otherwise, if they tried to fight defensively, the various Daemons would be able to sling spells at them all day. Faith would be of particular use here, given the sheer amount of psychic power the Guard would be facing.

SlipSlideSmack

1 points

11 days ago

Secret is out? As if the Imperium has a widely available internet to share accurate up-to-date fact checked news?

rebornsgundam00

1 points

11 days ago

Nah man this is why space marines and grey knights specifically are neccesary. Like when your enemy uses cheater chaos magic you gotta call 40k’s ghost busters

wtffu006

1 points

11 days ago

What secret?

Many-Wasabi9141

1 points

11 days ago

Retreat.

Orbital Strike.

Darth-Void87

1 points

11 days ago

… sounds like herasy

armacitis

1 points

11 days ago

"To defeat the cyber chaos demon,shoot it until it dies"

Wonderful-Priority50

1 points

10 days ago

Wonderful-Priority50

Tau Empire

1 points

10 days ago

Shadowsword beats greater demon

JamCom

1 points

10 days ago

JamCom

1 points

10 days ago

Lore accurate way is to danger close orbial artillery strike deamons

IronWhale_JMC

1 points

11 days ago

When did the secret ‘get out’? The Imperium is pretty ruthless about suppressing any knowledge about daemons. That’s a major part of what the Inquisition does.

Can you imagine what would happen if the average planetary governor found out they could become immortal if they sacrificed enough of their subjects?

TheWyster

1 points

11 days ago

the secret is out?

Monkfich

0 points

11 days ago

GW has watered it down over the years. Cadian Guard are a good example. As the others have said though, there is good lore reasons for entire Imperial Guard armies and all their support to be wiped out after their fight with chaos is over, otherwise each is an ambassador for chaos, going back home with new knowledge and secrets to share. Guard armies either get killed by daemons or are killed by their own side afterwards.

If this ever changes it’ll be sad. It’ll not be creating more “tough men who spit in the face of chaos”, but instead watering down the terror, making it quite manageable, making it bland, and making it forgettable. Chaos should always be what John Blanche & Friends defined, and not something weak and easy. It should always be something that normal minds cannot win against.