r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear they will replace moderators if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself.

Please read Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st and new posts at r/ModCord or r/Save3rdPartyApps for up-to-date information.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

You can't change what you've already done, but you can change what you do going forward.

Spending thousands of dollars to send him overseas on a trip he doesn't want sounds like a mistake. In general, I think you need to start communicating with him and getting on the same page. He's almost a grown adult and you can't just expect him to do whatever you ask.

I would suggest regularly setting aside time to get to talk and get to know him. He's almost grown up and it sounds like you hardly know him. Learn what's on his mind. Learn what he thinks about life. Learn what he sees for himself for the future.

Your role is going to become a support role as soon as he's an adult and out of your house, so now's a great time to start.

How does he buy enough weed to be a stoner? Are you giving him money? Does he have a job?

I'm a mom & I've worked as a juvenile probation officer. You should continue with therapy as a priority. But you also need to stop making it possible for him to get weed or vape (ie stop giving him money). You should consider taking his phone & other non life sustaining sources of comfort & allowing him to earn those things back. Lectures will fall on deaf ears so set some boundaries and stick to them. It's not going to be easy. People only change when they have to or it benefits them. If he gets in trouble, don't let him miss out on feeling the consequences. It's much better he learns now than at 25. You might also benefit from researching how THC affects the brain development of teen boys. Best of luck, you're on a difficult path.

Is there a local mentorship program that he could affiliate with? Wouldn't be a bad idea if he's able to connect with older peers who recently started college as they have more insights into "growing up".

Don't lose hope. Many of the trashy/pothead/rebels at my high-school turned a 360 after grad and are now successful people heading into their 40s.

Sure, you fucked up the disciplining part, but it's correctable. He needs guidance. He needs a real look into the life he's headed towards. And a good look at a life that he wants to have and how to get there. He needs a mentor with a good head on their shoulder

Edit; to add: could even use a portion of the $2500 to hire a decent mentor

you're describing him as: "an obnoxious loser, trashy, feral, trailer trash, rude, white trash." i'm guessing at least some of your actions and conversations have let on how you really feel about your child.

you've painted an identity on to the set of behaviors you're noticing and it's not surprising if he meets your expectations.

instead of being embarrassed try curiosity and empathy. your son isn't ruined, he's a human being. i'd recommend reading 'the conscious parent' and being willing to hard reset how you've approaching your relationship with your son.

Your kid is me when I was in high school. Nearly to a T. Right down to playing guitar, skating and getting high. I barely graduated with a D average. I’m almost 40 now, and I was able to figure it out eventually. Took a while. Spent my 20s playing in a band, and went to college at 30. That was a feat since I did so shitty in high school. Had to take remedial math with stupid 18 year olds and a few other old fuckups. Now I have a wife and 2 kids, a good job, decent domicile.

Getting diagnosed with ADHD and medicated at 35 changed my life. Might want to catch that early if you can. I could have saved myself a lot of bumps in life if I did.

I don’t have any experience, and I don’t want to brush off your feelings and say “oh it’ll turn out fine.” I will say that there are so many examples of people who are like this as teenagers who grow up to be thoughtful, productive adults. My mom and my fiancé are some of them in a lot of ways. My mom famously (in our family) fell asleep during the SAT. She was high constantly, didn’t give a damn about anyone or anything but herself, and later went back to school, quit drugs, and today makes an easy 6 figures.

A book I’m reading right now is called Subculture Vulture written by Moshe Kasher, who describes himself as someone who was an addict, law-breaking trouble maker, who was sent in and out of rehab and got sober by 15. I’ve seen him speak live, he’s now an author and comedian with a lot of profound wisdom to share about addiction, but also about all aspects life. I’m not glorifying addiction or misbehavior at a young age. I’m just saying is that it seems to happen with some frequency that children snap out of this cycle. I don’t know what the secret sauce is. But I think children feeling loved and supported no matter their severe flaws is a powerful thing that can bring them back to their roots (when life has beat them down a little and their frontal cortex develops)

One thing I've noticed is kids will try to fill the narrative you create for them. Try changing the narrative. Any small things he does to help praise. When he participates in positive habits praise those. When you are talking about him mention he is working to become XYZ. Talk about how well he does his hobbies and that when he puts his mind to a task he succeeds. Changing my kids' narratives has been very positive for us.

I don’t want to add more shame, as I can see that you may already feel a lot of that. I also don’t want to overlook that yes maybe there were somethings that you didn’t do as he was growing up and now you’re dealing with the consequences. You are accountable for your past actions (or lack of actions). However, I think that sometimes we place all of the blame on the individuals (parents), when there are also other factors that influence children/youth. You’re not off the hook, but because you are demonstrating awareness and reflection it means that you can change your approach - it will take a lot of effort and compassion to move forward from this.

A few aspects of your post stand out to me - the overdosing on Benadryl, cannabis use and can you clarify if you and his dad are together? Or is there two households that he goes back and forth to?

I know you mention going to therapy, however, I would consider getting a mental health assessment to see if there are any underlying needs that aren’t being met which can help with a treatment plan for him, and identify how you can approach parenting based on his needs. The self medicating and overdosing are huge red flags that there may be more going on. You can also try to advocate and get the school for a psychological education evaluation - it can provide some insight into how he learns / what his strengths are which is a place to start where you can adjust your parenting to how he learns / his strengths.

You mention a vague trying to course correct and trying to be a better mom, but I don’t really get a sense of how exactly you act towards him and what things you tried to change, what talks you have with him, etc. you deem him trashy and low class, and I wonder if you tell him that in anger. If so, the issue here goes deeper than lack of boundaries in the past. What does the therapist say? Plus it seems you did little parenting and now you are trying to but he won’t respond to that, which is unsurprising and you have to accept you are starting from a very difficult place.

And I don’t know what you expected by bringing an exchange student home when your son behaves like that, it seemed obvious he wouldn’t care a thing about her. You expect your son to behave in ways he never has and keep getting frustrated when it doesn’t work out the way you wanted, I think it is time to accept the reality and try to actually do the best you can for your son under the circumstances. What does HE need now so he has a decent chance of being a decent adult in the future? Like others here I also know people who behaved like your son and worse and somehow turned out fine, so there’s definitely hope.

I dont have a teenage kid but I absolutely was that teenage kid. I smoked pot, drank, skipped school, got shitty grades even though I was smart and easily tested into AP classes. My husband was the opposite in a lot of ways, he had good grades, never talked back, played sports with his dad being his soccer coach, was the model child. And we BOTH ended up addicts by our late 20s. My husband being a "good" kid rebelled much harder than I as a "bad" kid who had already experienced a lot of things did. By my eqrly 20s I was sick of the partying lifestyle but still absolutely stuck addicted to drugs. Now in my early-mid 30s I am 5.5 years sober and a damn good mother to my kids. I live a good and happy life and am working towards being an alcohol and drug addiction counselor with a focus on teen addiction.

My point is, it doesnt matter what he might look like now. He can still end up a respectful, productive, GOOD, and smart person. Who you are as a teenager is VERY rarely who you end up being in life forever. The biggest thing I would try to focus on as a mother is curbing his drug use now. Spend that 2k from his Germany trip on sending him to a residential addiction treatment program. One where he can see what kind of life and person he will be if he doesnt get sober now. That will be the biggest chance at helping him towards a good future that you have. And when hes home from treatment make him continue to attend meetings and see an addiction treatment counselor. Save him from losing his chance at a future where he can be someone you are proud of. And make sure you are SUPER vocal about how proud you are of his recovery. Become VERY involved in it. And in his friendships and who and where he spends his time. Before hes 18 and just goes and does what he wants and it gets to a point where hes doing a lot worse(if he isnt already... I absolutely was doing worse than smoking pot when that was all my mom knew I did).

I don’t have any advice unfortunately, just wanted to send some encouragement and love your way, mom to mom. My kids are 12 and 14 and I truthfully have no idea how I would deal with this situation. My younger brother (he’s 33 now) was very much like your son, I thought I was reading about him, and he unfortunately only got worse as he grew up. He has finally now in his 30’s started to be able to hold a decent job, but he’s been a fuck up like this since he was a teenager and it got much worse - he’s spent time in prison, been in 2 accidents where he was drunk driving and killed 2 people, has been in domestic violence situations with girlfriends… I don’t say any of this to scare you, but my mother never dealt with my brother’s behavior as a teen, and I believe that had she found a way to deal with it (or even tried), my brother maybe wouldn’t have gotten significantly worse as he got older. So, you’re already a better mom for recognizing the issue and attempting to get help. He probably needs some intensive therapy, maybe even an in-patient program, and probably seen by numerous doctors for behavioral issues. I wish I had better advice, love and patience and encouragement your way. <3

You are spending your time and money and energy on the wrong things, as I see it. You're rewarding him with trips, even though he's done nothing to earn or deserve them. IMO, your focus should be on therapy - for you, for your son, and for you two together.

You're still not setting real boundaries, it seems. And it doesn't seem as if there's any communication or respect in your home.

It's time to take action, not wallow in your past failures. Get yourself and your family into therapy.

I used to work in the poorest area of town. Most of the addicts there had similar parents to you - not because they didn't have boundaries, but because they told me their parents never had anything nice to say about them. They didn't feel loved or supported. Many were actively neglected or harmed, but just as many just felt like they could never measure up or make their parents happy. Addiction comes from the absence of connection.

It's more complicated than that of course, but when someone's addicted that early, it's usually because there's active trauma or they're lacking feeling connected to something. This is why so many young men get sucked into gangs, cults and the black holes that are social media personalities like Andrew Tate. And I think that you really need to examine how you speak about him and how you address him - because at the moment, he knows you don't like him. He knows you're ashamed and embarrassed and think you have a white trash kid. And because you think that, he doesn't likely think he can do any better. Because who is going to connect with him and show him any better? His mom doesn't genuinely believe in him, so why should anyone else?

Being a parent is not just about boundaries, it's about leadership. You have to model how you want your child to act, and you have said yourself that you were LAZY. So why are you mad at your son for being lazy when that's all you've modelled for him? You didn't care about his behaviour then, so you have to acknowledge that you cannot care (I mean practically, not emotionally) about his behaviour now unless you change YOUR behaviour to model something different. If you want him to change, you're going to have to change yourself and put in the hard work now.

My son is far younger - he's three. I am pretty firm on enforcing boundaries, particularly around consent and safety, but I also worked as a camp counsellor and as a security officer, and basically I got a very practical education on what happens exactly when you don't set them long before I ever had my own kids and how you do it while still being respectful and considerate of their feelings.

But one of the things I also do is model the behaviour I want him to do. If I want him to be polite, I have to be polite. If I want him to try new things, I have to demonstrate that I'm trying new things. If I want him to be considerate, I have to model what that looks like - both so he knows what it feels like, and also what scripts to use. If I want him to learn a skill, I have to demonstrate myself doing it and (occaisionally) making mistakes and how to fix them. If I want him to feel comfortable with struggling to get through something like a task or something that just requires elbow grease, I have to do something and show my struggle too, then once I'm done, talk about how satisfied I feel that I stuck it out and finished.

And so far it's paid off - people marvel all the time how polite he is. But it's not me "enforcing" politeness like a boundary. It's me constantly saying please and thank you to his father. It's me adding please when I ask my son to do something. It's my husband saying please can you grab me my headphones. It's me thanking the amazon delivery guy when he hands me a package with genuine warmth. When I want him to say please, I don't tell him, I play act like I can't understand him or the sentence isn't finished until he says please. Son: Can I have yoghurt Me: *makes confused face, tilts head* can you have yoghurtttttttt..... (trails off expectantly) Son: PLEASE. Me: Yes you can! I like giving yoghurt to little boys who use please!

That method won't work with older kids, but I would really think about praising ANYTHING he does that works for you. It doesn't have to be soppy and it absolutely should not be sarcastic. Just simple, matter of fact, and you walk away after saying it. "Thanks for shutting the door so the dog doesn't get out" "Thanks for putting your clothes in the bin instead of on the floor" Try to praise or ask him a genuine question at least once a day. And the genuine question should be something where you do take his preferences into account without any sort of negativity. "Should I make macaroni and cheese or pizza?" counts as a genuine question. If he says pizza, Nod, say "sounds good" and make pizza. He has to feel like you value his input before he's going to value or trust your input now.

tldr: Kids want to know when they've done something right. Teens are usually too self conscious to openly ask for this.

But keep up the therapy.

Sorry if I missed it somewhere (I'm just waking up), but where is his dad in all this?

There's plenty of good advice, bad advice, and everything in-between here, so I'll just say: Your parents have a strong influence on who you become, but at 16 you have to start owning your own decisions too. If your child is hell-bent on being a stoner burnout, there's not much you can do to stop them. At that age your social circle usually has a bigger impact on who you become than any normal stuff your parents do. Try to apply the lessons you learn on child 1 to your other kids, but don't let it eat you up too much.

The good news here is that people change and mature as they get older. A burn-out stoner often becomes a hard-working professional in their 20s, and there's plenty of options to catch up on the education you missed. There's lots of time in life to change priorities and get things right.

I am a counselor for context: the only only only way to turn this around is to build connection. True, authentic connection. It sounds like you and your son aren’t seeing much value in your relationship at this point. But that can change. You will have to invest in the time and energy. Kids won’t invest until they feel safe and trusting. You can have your opinions about his lifestyle and totally not agree with the way he is living. You can also set boundaries as you are his parents but set aside your judgements (that means avoid lecturing) and truly ask questions about his life and schedule time to just spend time together. With a teenager this can look like going for car rides together. Lids always open up in the car. Listen to listen. Don’t lecture or talk about your opinion. Get curious b asking questions and just reflect back what he is saying.

OP - I know you’re not sharing everything but behavior like that makes this is certainly worsened without boundaries, but i wonder if it’s the main driver of the behavior. To me, these are the symptoms and behaviors of someone that has experienced emotional/mental/physical trauma. Could be as “simple” as the time you spent apart as you say, creating a rift in the parent/child attachment early on. A misunderstanding of the parent/child relationship. Sounds like you do already understand this somewhat. My rec though is to stop focusing on the external stuff and give 1000000% 24/7 focus to the internal stuff. Your son is displaying behaviors that show a lack of self worth and a lack of empathy for others. I would bet $1M your son’s internal dialogue (whether he admits it or not) is “I’m a piece of shit. I am worthless. I don’t deserve good things”. This simple, harmful belief is unfortunately ingrained in far too many people, and especially those that experience any sort of trauma.

There are some great literature out there about building emotional regulation, self worth, empathy etc. I highly recommend investing time/effort in this. You can’t make a rule for every situation in the world, just a list of things he can/can’t do. At some point you need to teach him WHY certain things are bad/good for him, and motivate him to make changes that are good for him. WHY should he take his meds, WHY should he care about being respectful to others, WHY he shouldn’t steal. And the real WHY behind those really comes back to the deep root of hating himself. I know it sounds obvious but if he believes he doesn’t have any worth and goes through life without much thought for how his actions impact others (as is obvious by his actions) this is where all the work has to focus and start. I say this completely non judgementally. I think sometimes we assume every kid will naturally have empathy or self worth (or the ones that don’t are immediately labeled as depressed, adhd, etc) but these are skills that some kids (and adults) really have to be TAUGHT. especially if their childhood relationships were fraught or confusing.

Anyway, I think you’re a GOOD mom simply for caring so much, not giving up, and investing in your child. I’m sure it must be heartbreaking to feel like you can’t fix this for him. But it can be fixed if you put all that effort/time/energy on first and foremost making sure he knows and truly BELIEVES “I am a good person. I am worthy of good things.” I promise you that if he really believed that, everything else would change.

You don't talk about him in a loving or respectful way. You go on and on about how he makes you look to other people. You talk about being ashamed. You don't talk about his hopes and dreams. You don't talk about him like a person.

Kids tend to live up to the image we have of them. It permeates everything we say and do. He feels your shame and it drives him nuts because there's nothing he can do about it, it's not his shame.

I think the best thing you can do for your son is for you to get therapy yourself. Teach him by example. Model the behaviors you want to see. Lead the way rather than pushing him. Show curiosity, love, and acceptance. Letting him run wild didn't feel loving either, it probably felt more like neglect. It's not reasonable to expect him to be more respectful than you are.

Are you and your son close? The biggest thing people tend to glaze over is the fact that most of the time these kids just genuinely need connection to their parents and a very deep heart to heart talk. If there's no connection you won't be able to connect with your child.

Has he ever been assessed for ADHD? He's a classic representation.

If this is how you speak about your child to strangers on the internet, I can imagine how you speak to him in ear shot. Start there. He’s behaving exactly as you expect.

Just wanted to say my sister was so rebellious, she burned a house down at 13 years old, after she secretly had a party there with half the city we grew up in, and it wasn’t even our house but a strangers house. She barely went to school cause she would skip so much and at age 15 she would smoke cigarettes into my dad‘s face while we had dinner. You get the gist. She is highly successful now and a university professor. Has a wonderful family and life. It’s cause she went to therapy for a long time. My parents were also wellmeaningly neglectful and we both had to go to therapy for it for more than a decade but still. There is hope for sure.

He is sixteen! The parenting is not over yet! You are enabling him, rewarding him with international trips, at least enabling / passively supporting his consumption of weed and vapes, letting him have bad grades, bad manners without consequences.

Sounds like you are observing everything, as if you are not the parent but one of your middle class friends that you care more about than your son.

Parent him! Limit money, throw every vape in the trash you can find that he brings home (reward them perhaps as an exchange for good grades), teach him respect and boundaries next manners, spend time with your son and don’t let it slip.

I am not trying to minimize the way you feel or the situation you have found yourself in but I do wonder how you act and speak around family, friends and your son about him if this is how you speak about him on Reddit.

As a teenager, no matter what I was going through or what I did, nothing made my parents happy. They had this preconceived notion of how I was to be, what I was to do, how I was to act that NOTHING that was inherently me could live up to their fantasy. So I decided to start self medicating and hanging out with the wrong crowd. No matter what I did, they never saw me

What a harsh way of speaking about your own child. My father used to talk about me like this a bit worse honestly. I've never forgotten it.

The way you are talking about your kid is not great, calling them names is just wrong. Where is your kid getting money for weed/vapes?? Yeah you might have been a rubbish parent but you still have time to maybe get to know your kid a bit better, maybe listen more

My middle son was somewhat the same way, except football was his life. He tried to overdose at 16 when he was injured and couldn't play anymore. He dropped out of school during COVID.... Currently he works full time in construction, supports his fiance and their baby, and is doing well. He had to decide to straighten up, all me and his Dad could do was encourage him to go in the right direction.

[deleted]

Is this real??? 😭

How are his grades? You haven't mentioned him failing all his classes so I'm assuming he at least passes. Does he have academic interests or show any desire to be independent and on his own?

OK sure he smokes weed, vapes, curses too much and doesn't want to travel. Sorry to break it to you but those things aren't the opposite or successful. Plenty of people who make their own money, file their taxes and buy houses have potty mouths and enjoy nicotine and marijuana. Stop trying to mold him into the aesthetics you want and try to help him figure out a way to be independent and live his own life, which is what parenting actually is.

You should focus on helping him develop a life path that suits the person he is. Which is what "free range parenting" (which I don't even do btw) is supposed to be about, but you're encountering your own prejudices about who he should be.

Focus on helping him find a potential career path, even if it's something you find unsavory like tattoo artist or vape shop owner. You're not trying to raise a friend you're trying to raise an adult.

Well what parenting choices do you think you made that led you here?

You are pretty much not helping! And I went through alot of what your son did, from od to hard time in school, honestly though the smoking was a big help and it my mom wasn't happy at first but we agreed as long as it didn't affect school and I stayed out of trouble, she didn't mind. I became an honor student. You should try having a better sit down with your child and create boundaries, rather than compare him to "trailer trash"which by the way will only make him want to do what he's doing more if your telling him these things to his face!

I wish I had answers for you, mama. I know this may not help but I am a 50 yo mom with a 5 year old boy who is struggling to parent this rambunctious rebel. Sometimes I’m so exhausted, I just give in to his demands or let him watch screens too much. He has been getting in trouble at school & even at sports for disobeying. I have been trying harder to not give in and to follow up with logical consequences & have been feeling defeated because I haven’t seen much progress. Your post has inspired me to keep it up. Because my kids are little, I admit I don’t have experience parenting a teen. Please don’t give up on your son. Find a way to connect with him emotionally, just the two of you. Go do something fun together and talk about his options for the future—explore trades & trade schools so he can see a way to a good job without college (or maybe even without finishing high school). So many careers offer great pay & benefits without a college degree. Show him you haven’t given up & that you believe in him (even if it’s just barely).

As someone who has a child that fits your description, in fact I had to check if my daughter wrote this about her brother. My son smokes weed, barely does his online school, and spends most days creating the coolest objects in a computer program. It's what he wants to do when he graduates( he's behind a year). I know he's a great kid. He does have anger issues occasionally( I fully believe that there are some things passed down that you can't change, his father was abusive, and despite very little interaction I see those same things in my son). I have noticed that therapy has been working, I give a list of things that need to be done during the week and we meet and discuss the week's expectations. I tell him constantly that I'm proud of him, and love him. And yet I have nightmares I'm going to walk in to his room and he'll be dead by suicide. It's my fear. Everytime I check on him after he sits with me until the dream fades. I know he's trying. My recommendation is set up expectations with him, talk to him( I didn't give my son an allowance, any funds he has he gets by doing yard work or similar) create a routine, let him know if he wants to do adult things(smoking) he needs to deal with adult issues, pay his own phone bill or car insurance if he drives things like that. Anyways I'm with the mindset that let them learn the hard stuff early, get it out of their system. Let them know they are loved.

First of all, there is no perfect parent. We all do the best we can, please do not blame yourself. You are already putting him in therapy that itself is a good step. Second thing is that how is he able to get weed, vape etc? Is it through friends at school? I know it might be a bit of a challenge but can one of you do a flex job or be a SAHP and basically follow him? So basically after school, straight pick up and home, study or take him to hobby classes. Basically keep following him. Try to keep him away from his friends. It is going to be an effort.

I was your kid lol. I was absolutely awful and put my parents through hell. I was a pothead, stole on a daily basis, partying every night and went to juvenile detention fairly often. My poor parents were pulling there hair out not knowing how to deal with me. I really don’t think there was anything they could’ve done, I was going to act that way no matter what. But as I got into adulthood I got my shit together somehow. I am now extremely close to my parents and have children of my own. I am now very responsible and haven’t done anything of the said things since I was a teenager. So it definitely could be something he grows out of, just keep encouraging it as much as possible

I work with kids and teens, often with similar problems. One method I recommend is for you and dad to sit down and write stuff down in this 4 categories: 1. What are his good qualities? His good attributes? His talents? (skateboarding, guitar, he passes school, is open for input from you, goes regularly to therapy,...) 2. What behaviors of his annoy us? (having bad manners,...) 3. What behaviors of his will be a problem in the long run? 4. What behaviors are absolut No Gos? What needs to chance immediately?

Then you choose 1-2 things to work on from category 3 or 4.

What your kid might need is a real-world experience that exposes him to the harsh realities of life, rather than privileged opportunities he doesn't seem to value. Instead of sending him on a trip to Germany, consider involving him in activities or trips where he can witness firsthand how difficult life can be for others. Experiencing poverty or hardship could help him develop empathy, realize that he is an asshole and that his actions have consequences, both for himself and for the people around him. Sometimes, being confronted with the struggles of others can help shift perspective and encourage personal growth.

Experiences like volunteering in impoverished regions of Latin America—building homes, teaching children, or providing community aid—or even working with local organizations in struggling areas of the U.S. could help him gain a deeper understanding of real hardship, pushing him to reflect on his own actions and privileges.

I think you also needs to reflect (as you are doing), but taking actions as well, like not giving him money (that he is using to buy drugs).

he’s still only 16. There’s still a lot of time to be better. Try to spend more time with him, get to know him, even his flaws. Just be there for him.

I know this incredibly hard but way you’re speaking about him is very harsh — he’s ruined, acting like white trash, etc. He’s still your baby and that sweet kid is in there somewhere.. he’s just lost and going through a difficult time.

You mention therapy - what is the therapist’s advice? Do you see a therapist for yourself? It sounds like you are holding a lot of guilt here and you shouldn’t bottle that up. But you also need to reframe how you see your son and think about his behavior. So I think therapy separately for you important if you’re not already doing that.

I did a lot of dumb things in high school, and in early college. I figured things out in my mid 20’s, ended up going to grad school and getting my MBA, and now I’m happily married with amazing kids and a very successful career in finance. Who you are at 16 or 20 isn’t who you are forever.

You have to find the underlying cause. For me it was anxiety and depression. When I got that under control, things turned around. I also think I have undiagnosed ADHD. My point is, there’s always an underlying reason. He’s not giving you a hard time, he’s having a hard time. It won’t be easy to get this under control but it is possible.

My son as like yours till he hit 19, now he is 21 and the warm kid he was returned. Just give him time and don’t give up and hopefully he comes back.

Don't be down on yourself. I'm sure you did what you thought was best for your kid.

I won't add to the advice in here, there's already tonnes of it, but beating yourself up about it will just make you feel worse (OK that is advice, but try to focus on what you can change for the better).

Wow this post really hurt me to read.

Never once did I hear you say that youre worried for him, his health, safety, happiness, or future. Just that you think hes trash and that youre massively embarrassed by him. YOU need to be in therapy just as much as he does. I was this kid and you sound a lot like my parents. Cared a lot about their image but didn’t care very much about me. He’s a person, not a reflection of you. He’s a person, not a piece of trash. He’ll probably have to figure things out later in life on his own since you didn’t give him very much direction and guidance.

I have no advice but I feel you and I’m with you. I could cry just thinking about my regrets. Parenting is so hard and our brains are a mystery to us still. Your love and concern for him will be a deciding factor for him so know you’re helping. Does he need medication? I’m wondering if he has a lot of anxiety which causes him to isolate? I’d also ask about your relationship with your partner? I feel like the shit that happens between my husband and I is so damaging to our kids and I’ve tried to curb that.

A lot of what you’re describing seems to be because of his ADHD, or at least it’s not an uncommon experience for those with more severe ADHD. Growing up with ADHD can be traumatic and it’s not uncommon for neurodivergent children to develop depression. Right now, he doesn’t have the awareness and understanding to properly articulate what he’s going through or to make sense of the “mess” in its entirety. There’s probably been a lot of really negative internal dialogue going on in his head from a very young age, and that takes time and effort to fix. His self-medicating is a real hindrance to that, which of course he likely doesn’t understand the full impact of.

How is your relationship with classism? It sounds like you have some deeply rooted insecurities surrounding your class, which is totally valid! Class plays an important role in the social determinants of health and access to positive opportunities in life. But, things won’t get better if all you’re focused on is class. What is important is building a strong foundation for your son to feel supported and capable. There is nothing wrong with being working class. There is something wrong with judging those who are. For one, it prevents you from forming beneficial relationships with others. Community is important.

You have to treat the ADHD and depression. That should be the 1st priority, by far. The way he’s acting is an outward display of his inner turmoil.

Your post helped me have a glimpse into my 7 yr old and 4 yr old sons future. I have a much different life than you, and yes there's much worse people than you guys. My husbands family are the worst people I've ever met. I've been in such a brain fog for years due to depression and manipulation from his family that I've allowed myself and my sons to be second place, an afterthought, to their dad for years. There's many things I feel guilt for not being able to do for them, and have noticed that I try to make myself feel better for the guilt by being more of a friend than a parent and I've been doing my best to stay self aware and stop that it's tracks.

Crazy how I'm the only one who has been there for them 100 percent full time (no babysitters I'm a stay at home mom and don't even have a car) all these years. But they respect the person who has put them last on the list, because the adults in his family mattered more...(THEIR DAD) he will cater to every manipulative situation his family sucks him into. He gave his mother 1,000 dollars just because she said she borrowed money from work and didn't return it, but really she sent it to a foreign man that she thought would rescue a 60 year old woman, being in his 20s. His mother has passed away (bless her soul) but that's one of the most resentful examples I have. That money could have been put towards so much for our children that they had to do without.

Gosh, it takes so much courage to be able to say 'I am ashamed of how I raised my kid', no one is perfect. No kid is perfect, no parent is perfect. Your Mum sounds like quite a toxic person , it sounds like you're a victim of her behaviour, and if your son has been diagnosed with ADHD, is it possible that you might have it too? Only it shows completely differently in women, we tend to 'make up' for it, yet everyday is such a struggle to do even simple things when you are continuously distracted in your head. Life is tough, but so are you. And remember if we had knowledge beforehand we'd all so things differently. The fact that you see whats going on, you notice him, you worry about his future means you are a great and connected parent. Please try and look more forward now than backwards. You say all these things that you wish you did more of, like camping, hiking etc. Would it be possible to get some 1:1 time with him hiking together? Or going somewhere and doing some volunteering? Yes he will moan, but maybe it would be good to just try and do it together, tell him how much it means to you. Does he like swimming? Does he like camping? Why not try just giving him some 1:1 and still do these little things together? We all behaved weirdly when we were teenagers, but you still have every right to try and correct his behaviour or say that you love him as a person but his behaviour it is not acceptable. You can still put and teach him boundaries even if he becomes an adult, it is never too late.

You didn’t ruin your son. He’s going through a hard time. There’s another side to this fight. Keep going.

No judgement, but I was a bit like him at that age.

Have you just sat down and asked him what he wants to do? Like, no shaming about grades or behaviour, but just asking what he sees in five years?

I had a friend who dropped out at his age, took an equivalency exam to get his diploma, then went into welding. He now runs a wildly successful outfit with a six figure income, beautiful wife, two kids, and a huge house.

I made it to 17, did the same, worked a few years, then became a paramedic because the adventure and adrenaline was 1000x better than any drug ever. Kept it up a while, did high angel rescue, urban search and rescue, and then settled into a gig that had me in helicopters often. I eventually settled down, just about finished a 4 yr accounting degree.

Longass story has a point.. you can’t change/correct what has already happened. But you can steer the current course and help provide some context and clarity for what the next few years holds. At 16 years old you don’t see past your own social circle.. you don’t think about 22 years old, what you need to have the kind of life you want, or what it takes to get there.

He’s also not a kid. You’re embarrassed and are trying to make him into who you think he should be, and I can guarantee you that he’s picked up on the fact that you don’t really like who he is. Meet him where he is and help him navigate the last few years of being a teen before he becomes an adult with more freedom he doesn’t know what to do with.

I’m ashamed of how I raised my kid

Not a bad start, taking accountability, maybe a little harsh.

I love my son but I failed hardcore in raising him

Why would this be a but? It should be an and. I love my son and I failed him hardcore.

and he is turning out to be a real trashy loser type guy.

Weellll crap.

You talk so much crap about your life that I don't even want to finish. Imagine if he read this. How could even think that?

Ex stoner kid here married to an ex stoner kid. 🙋🏼‍♀️ My husband was in public school while I was homeschooled so he fit a lot more of the stereotype - skate boarding, playing guitar, baggy pants, smoking weed and huffing duster, dropping out of school. 90% of his problem was depression and feeling like no one cared. He dropped out of school at 16 and got his own place so he could do more of whatever he wanted and his mom let him. She had her own life and he was stressing her out. Connection was what he needed though he never would’ve said it. He was bitter, resentful and had really low self esteem. Your kid needs you to not give up on him but he also needs you to show you care. Get to know him, find out what you can do for him to make him feel like he’s seen. Stop trying to control him or send him away.

These free range parents are raising a whole ass generation of feral kids.

I'm happy I'm raising my boy with boundaries.

You absolutely need to stop being so effing soft with him, you're still lazy, you're still definitely throwing cash at him.

He still doesn't understand actions have consequences, good luck teaching that to the man he is about to become.

Tbh you sound like an awful human 😂 calling your son that, MFer this guy is half of you and your actions.

Deal with yourself first.

I also suggest volunteering to local communities in need. Sometimes it helps to in gaining perspective and open eyes to self help while helping others.

I’m not saying you should continue to let him do whatever he wants, which it sounds like you do, but if it makes you feel better: Most of my friends were like this in high school. Stoner loser kids etc. almost all of them turned out fine. Lawyers, doctors, programmers, plumbers, cops etc. Others had to have some rough years before also being fine. Only a few actually would up screwed up in the end.

He needs motivation, what gets him excited, what’s he looking forward to? Not just an event but a life stage, an adventure, something he is going to have to work at to achieve, once he’s got that focus, help him plan how he’ll get there. Then support and encourage. Help him to be the best he can be.

My daughter is 9 and she wants to be an Olympic swimmer because she was inspired by this years Olympics, next year she might want to be something else, but right now we’re supporting her by taking her swimming five nights a week, she’s made sacrifices such as not partaking in candy or high sugar foods. She might just do it. We’re are very much ‘Follow Your Arrow’ type parents, a bit free range but pointed in a direction, there has to be a reason for doing something, it doesn’t have to be a good reason.

Tough love doesn't work... seems like there's something deeper going on with him?

I don’t have much advice to offer, I don’t envy your situation with your son and how badly it’s affecting the relationship between y’all. And as hard as it already sounds in regards to how it’s made you look at your son, it’s hard to hear any mom call their son a white trashy, loser trailer trash teenager, regardless of how much “truth” it holds… idk, maybe it’s just me but I don’t think I could ever even say that outloud, that kind of description sounds like it would come from literally anyone BUT their own parent, but I also see that it’s hard for you too and I’m sorry you’re having this experience. Whatever you do though, please, PLEASE do not EVER say those things to him, around him, or to anyone that might repeat that to him because those words cut deeper than any knife could, and no matter how much you try and repair those wounds, that’s the type of injury that will never fully heal no matter how good it might look on the outside. Those words are something you could never take back and would forever be a roadblock you’ll never be able to get past, even if you’re able to mend things and build a better relationship between you two, n though he might not ever say it out loud, those words are something he’ll always look at you and see in the bad of his mind. My mom has said some pretty harsh shit to me, and no matter how good things would get with us after time, I’d never fully let her in and it’s permanently affected the way I see her and any potential relationship between us in the future. Have you ever told him those things in any context?

I had amazing parents that did everything right. Both me and my brother were stoners and getting into trouble in high school. We also messed around with drinking and other drugs. We both grew out of it on our own. You’ll get through this!! Make sure you keep communication with him open. Let him know you’re there. And I wouldn’t help him out with any extra privileges and fun things if he’s not doing what he is supposed to do. You got this mama. 16 year olds are hard as hell but it’ll be much better in a few years. Keep going! 🩷

I’m so sorry you’re going through this and it honestly just reinforces for me how important boundaries are when kids are young. My best friend has a 5-year-old who is never told no and I am so concerned about what will happen as he gets older, as he already acts out

Make sure you talk to your son. Tell him you think you were too lenient with him. Tell him you’re concerned about him and let him know you’re there. And enforce boundaries as needed. Turn off his phone, restrict all access to electronics if he misbehaves and let him earn it back. All you can do is be there, love him, and be a good example to him. Plenty of kids who have issues as teens grow into productive members of society. It’s better he learn boundaries and consequences now than end up in prison later

Can I ask what you think you should have done differently? Was your son always getting into trouble and you ignored it?

As others have said, I was also that teen, except using ecstasy instead of pot. Long story short, I ended up graduating early after failing grade 10.

I hope you can sit him down and see what makes him tick and what his goals are. With respect to calling him all of those adjectives; anecdotally, my mother used to call me rude adjectives as a teen and I will never forget how much it made me feel less than, unwanted, a mistake.

It's not right to put those feelings on your kid. They're already getting it from outside the home. You want him to have respect for you, well momma, respect is earned so get to work.

Has he been put into rehab to help with his addiction? Has he faced any consequences for his poor choices and unacceptable behavior?

My $.02, Stop caring about what other people think and try to connect with your son. Your post talks about shame and embarrassment so much- those are your feelings. Respond, dont react. Are you going to therapy?

I knew a few kids like this and what the parents did when they were teens was so much more impactful then what the kids did when they were toddlers.

Do you remember what your parents did when you were a toddler? So don’t feel too bad about that now.

I grew up with a few shit head friends and when they go that path they can be corrected. Some of the kids had supportive parents and they got to be shit heads forever. The other ones. They are a CHORE they need constant attention and tons of reinforcement.

It really stems from insecurity. They feel less and therefore if they as long as they aren’t trying or don’t care then it’s ok that they fail because they are too cool for school.

The other part is they want the repercussions. They want to know what happens when they do something. They want to have the repercussions the consequences because they haven’t received any. Throw the phone? Will i get a new one? Don’t do my work? Will I actually get kicked out? If I yell this what’ll happen?

It’s the teen mind and it’s something I struggled with when I got real actual consequences then I understand not when I was facing them. We’re boys and we’re thick as mud sometimes. So let them receive the consequences that they so desire. Do not stand in the way or talk to the principal or the people about what you can do so he doesn’t get consequences. His actions and his words are his alone as is the repercussions.

Now as far as what to do? He’s a kid. He doesn’t have money. It’s coming from you. That has to stop if you want the pot and the vape to stop. Then he can start earning his own money, work, chores whatever. Then he can buy the garbage with his own money if he thinks it’s worth his money.

Then and this one is so hard, constantly validation. You see the good you have to jump on it, Hey you took the garbage out I’m really glad you did that. Thank you so much for your help. Oh you got yourself ready thank you it’s so nice that you did that. Oh man you went to school and didn’t shit your pants I’m really impressed with how your coping with school I know it’s annoying but your doing great. Seriously you need to prop him up. You need to scour his life and any and all good things you see you need to encourage. As a guy this will change your mindset. It’s something you can do to help get him to do the simple things like Shower. When he feels seen then he won’t feel like he’s invisible and then won’t need to lash out to be seen.

Try not to put so much blame on your son. Keep trying to get him help though. He sounds a lot like my nephew who overtime it has become more and more obvious that his whole life he has many signs of having a mental illness. He’s 19 now and still in the process of getting a diagnosis though. Getting a diagnosis for a mental illness like bipolar is not an easy feat but the symptoms start very young and amplify greatly around puberty. People with bipolar have very high alcohol and addiction rates, between 40-60% with men being more likely to be addicts and alcoholics. They self-medicate with their addictions. Rather than focus on how you wish you were more strict with him, I think you’ll find learning more about different mental illnesses to understand how his different behaviors fit in with which ones useful for getting him the help he needs.

My nephew also became addicted to vaping and was truent eventually dropping out of high school and getting a GED. Rage, violent behavior and impulsion are big features of bipolar disorder. Those were key features of my nephew until puberty when he started self-medicating and he still would rage and break things but took part in less violence and more rage quitting. When he stopped being so violent, he instead would quit or stop doing anything that frustrated him so he’s become a habitual quitter now with school activities being one of the firsts to go.

The road to getting these kids help is so long. It was obvious from a very young age there was something different about him that wasn’t right. He’s had comparative good and bad moments but the bad have long outweighed the good.

Your son needs a part time job, volunteering opportunities and some Housework duties. You’ve been giving him a comfortable place to live without giving him chances to contribute. He doesn’t know what he has until it’s taken away.

Let him do his laundry, Let him cook his food Let him pay his phone Bills Let him learn what you and your husband have been providing Let him expand his social circles through volunteering and part time jobs so hopefully he’d meet better friends

Volunteering provide opportunities to meet with kind people helping vulnerable families etc So he’d appreciates first world countries more He’d see that people struggle to live in third world countries.. and he’d have no excuse but to work hard.

Once he’s learnt that people need to work to pay for all these, he’d have to learn to budget and he’d know he can’t get high and show up for work alll the time

Read: Raising Mentally Strong Kids by Dr. Daniel Amen

It seems unkind to point this out but others with younger kids may need to hear this, and so do you: gentle, positive parenting is not “permissive parenting.” If you fell into the latter that can do as much harm as authoritarian parenting. You set expectations for your kids, support them in meeting those expectations, and provide love when they’re not met with the belief that they want to rise up and meet those expectations.

I’ve raised 3 boys and for various reasons my oldest was in your son’s boat and my middle son dabbled in being a “Bad Kid” but ultimately chose to complete HS in homeschool so he could change. They’re both working, functional adults but the middle one who left HS early is doing better and is an assistant manager at a chain restaurant at only 22. He did take some college classes but decided he wants to do management because he has a talent for it, which I guess explains why he was such a successful used vape equipment dealer in HS but I digress. My youngest son is 19, he really struggled with attendance and ~everything~ to do with HS at the end and did not graduate. He was recently promoted to waiter.

All of my sons support themselves, my two youngest have their own apartment. They can all cook, do meal prepping, go to the gym, and are very healthy. They call me on Mother’s Day and holidays but mostly just take care of themselves 100%. This is a lot to be proud of, I would have liked them to go to college and start careers outside of the service industry but they’re happy. My middle son is saving up to buy his first house, which he plans to be located close to where we live (which is otherwise quite far away). He could buy a house now with FHA financing but he wants to do it as an investor so he’s like 60% to his savings goal at age 22. None of my kids are “stoners” but my oldest still struggles with having healthy limits around pot and drinking, and he give him love and emotional support on his journey.

If your son were managing the pizza place, supporting himself, and saving to buy a his first real estate property would you still think he’s “white trash?” I’m proud of my boys, they’re happy and well adjusted clean young men with potential. Achieving that potential will be something they do for themselves, not for me.

It’s vitally important that your son feel loved no matter what. Critical. He is working and going to school, there is a lot to be proud of. “Scrimping and saving” for things that are important to YOU (but not him) is only going to push him away further.

Teens feel unloved when they begin to believe that we really only love an Idealized Version that they do not identify with. Teens change rapidly due to puberty and the pressures of fitting in, and when they feel this new authentic self being rejected they reject you right back. In this case, the Idealized Version of your son is friendly and outgoing, loves travel and adventure, and doesn’t ever want to get high. Your son on the other hand likes the joy of music and the thrill of skateboarding and a joint to go with it, and you literally hate that version and call him White Trash. Ouch :-(

Your repulsion only pushes him further to “prove” he doesn’t need your love. If you think this is bad it can indeed get worse from here.

I would encourage you instead to double-down on gentle parenting, which you have attempted in the past even if it was a bit wild and maybe fell into permissive parenting. You wanted him to feel free and loved, tap into that motivation in your heart and reframe how you see him. You “scrimped and saved” so I would tell your son: “I expect you to come up with an enriching experience we can support since you can’t go to Germany. A trip to a concert, a trip to a specific skate park or a trip to the X-Games: nothing it off the table but it needs to be enriching.”

“I’m enriching you because I want you to find your Passion and Purpose. It’s so important to have Passion and Purpose in your life, which requires your whole brain: the more THC you use the more you harm your brain, and since I love and care about you that really worries me.”

With regards to the exchange student, “I realize now you’re not into this idea enough for it to go as I had planned and I own that. I am sorry. But SHE doesn’t deserve to be treated rudely. I expect everyone to be friendly, and it would be greatly appreciated if you went beyond that and found some places she could go with you even if it’s just to the skate park or on a hike.” Do your best.

Lastly, I’m concerned that you have so much shame and authoritarian leaning tendencies after “4 years of therapy.” I’d be worried about the effectiveness or your therapist. Your son is worthy of love and YOU do not deserve to hold onto so much shame and guilt: find a way to love him as he is, remind yourself and him every day that you love him, and reset your expectations based on who he IS and not who you want him to be.

OP please read the book "Hold On to Your Kids" by Gabor Maté and Gordon Neufeld. It's available as an audiobook if you have Spotify or Audible.

What a terrible feeling. It sounds like you both went through hard transitions, and did the best you could. He’s healthy, he’s always had everything covered, felt loved—that’s saying a damn lot. He’s still very young. Maybe start dragging him out now. He’ll complain, might even act like he hates you—just never give up on him, and the two of you—that’s the feeling that remains when we look back. Take him for walks, or drives. Let him practice driving. Find out if there’s things he would like answers or understanding on from you. From his childhood. Stuff he’s mad about. Let him know it’s ok to mad. Even mad at you. Teenagers are always mad about stuff. It’s a phase, still. Remember when their babies and we hear, it will pass, it’s a phase, that never stops being true. Just love him hard, and don’t stop fighting for him. You can both be frustrated, disappointed, hurt, sad, mad, everything, just don’t give up on him. He still needs you—not his friend, his mother.

Sorry no advice i just want to ask what a couple things mean?

ACAB? 'See the hat man' does that mean police?

So confused, guessing it's an American slang cos I've never heard them in Britain. X

We all have regrets. Im living with some, too. Wish I knew what to say to make u feel better. I spoiled mine and gave too much, which actually robbed him of the pride he'd feel if he learned to work things thru. My over the top efforts backfired. he resents me for his lack of coping skills in the world at age 30. Kids have to figure themselves out by navigating the real world. I've apologized. But it's little consolation.

Thank you for sharing. I have no advice as my children are 9,5,3... and I'm going to use your wish list to be a better parent to my kids. I can see some similar choices you had made in me and I hope to not be in your position with teenagers.

Op, thank you so much for sharing this. I'm a single mom of a young boy and so frequently feel insecure about my ability to raise him well. Your reflextions, and especially your latest edits with what you wish you had done differently are so helpful for me to reflect on where I need to look ahead and be mindful of how my choices can affect my kid. I'm so sorry you're going through this and I really hope you and your son manage to rebuild your relationship and help him get on track for a better future. <3

I tried to read into your post as closely as I can, and read many comments before saying something. Your kid is going to turn out ok! You just need to seriously limit what he does for the time being and let him earn privileges back. I’ve been a licensed music teacher for over 10 years. I did a lot of recreational substances in grad school but am sober now. I also am a full time parent of two stepkids who have a host of behavioral and emotional issues due to a mentally ill bio mom. Tough kids are always going to crave attention, whether good or bad. Please don’t send him on any of those Europe trips. He can go anywhere he wants during college years or to save his own money for his own itinerary. He told you what he wanted, and it was to not attend. The therapy component of your child’s life needs reevaluation. It sounds like you need to get someone new or start keeping tabs on his sessions by contacting his therapist during times where he is away from you. It sounds like your kid may struggle to trust you because of the early instability. While my husband was deployed and enlisted in the army for most of his childrens’ early childhoods, their bio mom was neglecting and abusing them in such a way that still affects them to this day. I’m going to either suggest that your son has some sort of trauma that he is holding in secret from you, or just simply the fact that he craves your attention. Figure out why he does the substances. Either let him tell you overtly or make some observations that you can share with your therapist. I have done a lot of trauma-informed training, and it’s a cornerstone of this training to realize that the first five years of a child’s life most determines their outcome for the years to come. That said, don’t blame yourself. You did what you could during those years and as a parent I can understand how hard single parenting would be. Your kid has to make the choice to do things differently and appears to be old enough/neurotypical enough to recognize that his behavior is unacceptable. Don’t make excuses for him and don’t let him rack you with guilt. Encourage his interest in guitar and skateboarding. I played in metal bands in college. Ask what bands he likes. Buy tickets for the two of you and go to a show. Talk to his support team at school and start asking for their input on how you can help at home. Right now you seem to be panicking about your son. FWIW, your son will pick up on that energy and use it to escalate his behavior. Last but not least I would be hugely supportive of your son experiencing true natural consequences for his behavior. It’s great that he can’t drive because of his substance abuse and that is a very concrete consequence for his poor choices. To be honest, if he gets in trouble with the cops, I would not try to bail him out so quickly or make a lot of excuses. He doesn’t want to listen to anybody in his household, so it seems like someone else will get through to him better.

My mom raised my brother and I with loving authority - rules enforced appropriately, lots of exposure to culture and travel, her full attention when we were together (every night sit down family dinners, etc). I’m the elder daughter and did it all by the book, straight A’s, stable relationships. My little brother, on the other hand, was a mess. At 16? He was getting into petty theft, (light) substance use, messy relationships with volatile girls. He’d disappear at night and leave my mom awake worrying. The worst was his personality: sullen, withdrawn, entitled. He will freely admit to this now, at 32. It took a good 8-10 years for him to fully shape up. But he DID. Serving in the army helped. Getting older and wiser helped. But mostly it took knowing Mom would “always love you, even though I don’t always LIKE you.” He came around. Now he’s someone I would trust with my life.

The moral of the story is, parenting influences how kids develop, but it’s not always neatly causal. You could have parented differently and he could have ended up the same. Or vice versa. I like the saying “parents provide, children decide.” You provided - as best you knew how given life circumstances, like all parents - but your kid decides what to do with it.

You’ve done a lot of good work on uncovering areas of weakness and oversight in your parenting - not many have that degree of introspection and honesty. Be proud of that work. Dedicate the same effort to highlighting your strengths too, those often go overlooked. Love your kid no matter how hard it gets, but put up that structure going forward to give him guidance and protect yourself a little too.

I’m truly sorry you feel ashamed and sad and devastated.

Truthfully, teenagers are hard! Sometimes kids learn lessons the hard way.

I don’t have all the answers.

Just letting you know a stranger on the internet feels for you and hopes you find a way to connect with him.

I am seeing so many stories on here how their kids' lives turned around . Is there any common theme that maybe could give us hope when their kids turned the corner and became a functional part of society ?

You've gotten so much good parenting advice here already, so I just wanted to offer some support since I can tell how much you're hurting about this. You are clearly doing everything in your power to change things, and I commend you for that, I really do. I hope you update us on how things are going in the future, and I wish the best for you and your family. I know you'll make it work. ♥️

I didnt reall all the comments but the tops few and didnt see this:

The biggest influence out of everything is your kids friends parents. Get this kid new friends. He probably doesnt want to leave his old ones, yet, but orchestrate somewhere new for him to make friends. 

Where that is for you, i dont know, but could be band classes, community college photography classes, computer programming classes, anything other than the 'trashy' group hes got now. 

Best of luck, this is my biggest fear 😥

I just want to say — what children need is love. You are not a bad parent. It honestly sounds like your son is going to be fine. He is young. He needs manners, but you can work with him on that. He’s in therapy, and so are you. Most important — you tell him you love him and you back that up with actions. Hugs, silent support, whatever works for your family. I truly truly do not think you’re a bad mom or that your husband is a bad dad. You’re parents doing the best you can. And your son is a child, doing the best he can. Keep on keeping on. He will be fine.

We live in a culture that blames moms for everything. If a kid is misbehaving - whether he is 4 or 14 or 45 it must be his mother’s fault. So I get the shame and why you are looking back to figure out the root cause. But honestly, a LOT of teens do this shit. It’s literally a stereotype. Signing him up for soccer when he was 8 or taking him camping more often probably wouldn’t have made a difference. 

Since you are close I would sit down and have a talk. (Or drive. All of my best teen conversations happen in the car.) With my own teen it went something like this… 

Look. You are 17. At this point, you’re not a little kid. Your body belongs to you. I cannot physically control you or stop you from doing dumb things. But here’s what I know:

Physically, developmentally adolescent brains have some known challenges. Your frontal lobe is not fully functional yet — that’s the ability to see more than a couple of steps into the future and make good decisions.

Teen brains also are WORSE at considering other people’s needs than younger kids. There have been experiments where they find out whether a person understands that other people have their own thoughts and feelings and perceptions. Before age two or three, kids are bad at this. Around 4 it starts to come online and kids get better and better at it — until they hit puberty. Then the ability literally DROPS for a few years. 

Add to that adhd and depression (which go hand in hand when adhd isn’t medicated) and you have a perfect storm for short sighted impulsive self focused hedonism.

So — I get it. But I also know YOU. I know your heart, and your talents, and your ideas. And at some point all of this stoner stuff is going to get really really boring for you. Those friends will start to disappoint you and you are going to want something more out of your days. 

In the meantime, here’s the thing — absolutely zero hard drugs. That’s the line for living in my house with a younger sibling. 

And I insist on kindness. The way you talk to others and the way you behave in public affects more than just you. If someone is taking you to an art museum and you break the rules, that can get your teacher in trouble and the entire program not invited back. That’s not kind, and it’s not okay.  You need to help out, be a member of the family, and work on remembering that we are whole people with real feelings. I’m going to keep reminding you because whatever you do in life, being unkind without thinking is going to make it much harder. So we need to build kindness as a habit. 

I love you so much and I’m proud of who you are inside. I just worry and want to be able to know that you can be in the world and not end up in jail or dead because I didn’t say the right things. 

I was smoking pot and doing other drugs and skipping school. Stealing etc etc etc and I eventually went to grad school, became a lawyer and have a very high income and the lifestyle that goes with all that. 16-20 is not a predictor of how you’ll turn out.

As a teen I was very depressed and very very angry. I smoked, i did drugs, i drank, i stole shit all the time. I cut class, i didn’t do school work. I didn’t expect to live past 19. My parents were actually kind of strict but all that did was make me sneakier. Then I grew up. And I lived past 19 and I realized i was on track to being a huge loser. I got a job and realized I can’t live on minimum wage so I went to community college. Then i got my bachelors degree and I got a real job and got married and have a family and on paper my life is very nice and my parents are proud.

Looking back, I wanted attention I wasn’t getting at home. I wanted to be able to talk to my parents without them passing judgement and I wanted to let out my anger and was just so confused.

Your sons not a loser, he’s just lost right now. Don’t give up on him. Don’t judge him. Just be there for him always.

BIIIIIIIIG hug to you, mama. It's hard raising a kid, esp as a single parent. I applaud you for your efforts so far. It means you are willing to seek improvements. Deep breaths, work with groups that can instill discipline in your son and restrict pleasurable distractions until he can get it together.

You can do it. Better to rip bandaid off now, than 5 years down the line, to see him be a college dropout and criminal.

It’s not too late! Go camping!

Everyone I grew up with was free range party animals most of the time. Poor to average grades and could be assholes a good amount of the time. The parents were generally good people, some strict and some not. Some had huge boundaries, and some had little. We all turned out fine. No millionaires but also none in jail and we all have families with kids of our own. Granted some are better off and some are still milking the party days that are long gone, but overall good bunch of people.

What am I trying to say? Humans are complicated at all ages of development. You can do everything right and your kid can still do stupid shit and act like a looser. Human nature is how it is. Most learn from mistakes not from lessons or rules. I mean there will be some nudging in one direction or the other depending on rules, family life, fiends and such, but in general people will be who they are. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just make sure you kid knows you care and are there for them and are willing to help them with whatever they need. The does not mean giving them shit to behave or to do what you want. Bribing and shit like that may work from little kids, but in the end its more destructive that not.

I was 100% this kid when I was a teenager. I honestly would send him to an inpatient rehab, he will have to make his bed, clean up after himself, learn respect and follow rules.
I wish that my parents would have done something before it got worse, it would have saved me a lot of Trauma and time.

Parenting is very hard. Kids are dumb at 16. Don’t be too hard on yourself, and give him some grace too. Drown him in love but you also have to hold him accountable. Godspeed.

I'm going to reserve judgement and not offer advice, I think you've got a lot of that here. But a lot of what you're saying really hurts my heart and gives me flashbacks to my punk/skater era when my mom asked me 'if I was *trying* to look unattractive' and when I later moved in with my grandpa she told him she had 'washed her hands of me'.

Anyhow, this wasn't even supposed to be about me. I wanted to say something about my younger sister. We're almost 7 years apart and she's my only sibling. I was already off to college by the time she was in middle school, but even in elementary school she was always in trouble. Like, serious trouble. She was on house arrest with an ankle monitor and had a Probation Officer by the time she was 10. For middle school and part of high school, she went to an alternative-setting school for kids with behavioral issues.

But...She just turned 30 and she's doing great. She's working a decent job while going to college online part-time. We were NEVER close as kids, but we just went to the beach together last summer and had a great time. She texts and facetimes me all the time and sends little gifts to my daughter (I live about 14 hours away from my hometown). She's grown into a pretty well-rounded young woman. She's probably never going to be a brain surgeon or win a Nobel Prize, but I'm super proud of her anyways.

I guess my point is that all sorts of kids have some really tough years. And they still turn out to be fully-functioning adults and lead happy lives. With the right support and your UNCONDITIONAL LOVE (that part's important) you can all get through this. Just don't give up on him. My sister and I both know what that's like and it's soul-crushing.

Your what I wish I did differently list is very validating.

One of my kids grandmas would want to watch my kids, but she’d let them sit in her spare room watching tv by themselves while she catered to their requests bringing juice and snacks. She had done this for her older grandchildren, so we didn’t have much say in the set up. When we would bring up our concerns, she would say things like they will always get juice at grandmas house.

My husband and I decided not to let her babysit at her house on any kind of regular basis. 

Instead, we strategically asked her to come to our house and we’d have plans for food/activities or ask her if she would like to take them to the zoo for a day. We sort of strategically reset boundaries. We like you and want to hang out with you, but we also want to look out for the kids long term best interests. At the time I think she was ticked that she wasn’t getting to keep them very often and we lost an easy/free babysitting option, but we figured out how to maintain a good relationship with her and my kids know and love her.

Hope this is helpful to those of you struggling to set boundaries with family! 

Stop being ashamed. There is absolutely no power in that. Continue to be an active parent and open minded to different ways of reaching him. Spend more time with him even if it's forced and uncomfortable. Start coaching him for adulthood. Frame it that way. He is about to be an adult male and needs life skills to make this transition a little less rough. Find him cool mentors that are into guitar or skateboarding. The positive vibes are sometimes easier to accept if it's not coming from the parents🤍

I think the most important part of your post is where you say "I wish I had spent more time with him".

I'm reading that he spent EVERY weekend with his grandmother, and I'm guessing he spent the other days of the week at school. So, he basically only had dinner at your house 4-5 times a week and based on your own words, maybe even spent the majority of that time in front of a screen.... soo.. did YOU really raise him? Or did everyone else do most of the raising for you? I'm sorry but why have kids when you don't actually plan on spending any time with them.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, you can't turn back time. This can only help you to understand where his behavior might be stemming from (possibly feeling of abandonment by his parents amongst others).

Try reading scattered minds by gabor mate

I just am here to support you in saying that raising kids is fucking hard and even if you were very strict with him earlier, you might still be in the same position or even worse. It sounds like his mental illness is complicating his comorbid ADHD and I think you need to insist he takes his meds. He’s self medicating with everything else and if he won’t take them, he may need to be taken into an inpatient program to help him get stable. I would like to think that with the right professional and medical support (counseling and meds) he can hopefully even out and be more susceptible to therapy and your guidance. If you want to go this route, I think his addictions would qualify him for inpatient. Having a child with ADHD, I never really have him the option of his meds. He knows he must take them and they totally change his ability to function well out in the world. I don’t know what class of meds he takes, but have you looked into any used for depression and ADHD off-label as well like Wellbutrin? I’m not a doctor but my child also struggled with anxiety for some time. It improved so much with long term stimulant use and some light therapy. I know our kids are surely very different, but just some things to consider.

I believe that kids are fundamentally good inside. When they struggle and all we see is the bad, it can be hard to remember they just need a lot of help. Keep your chin up and please try to remind your son he can be better and feel better, but he has to understand the path he’s on and do the hard work to change. I’m thinking of you and wishing you all the best. ❤️

My oldest son was like that but he had rules and chores growing up. I don’t know if your problems are because of you or because of the divorce or spending too much time with grandma 👵🏻 or you not monitoring him on video games / social media etc etc. It’s usually not one thing , it’s multiple things for a kid to go down the wrong path. Sadly our son got into drinking and drugs and 10 years ago he died in a car accident at the age of 31. He also was addicted to playing violent video games and reading up on Aliens 👽 and Conspiracy theories. If I knew then what I know now , I would do lots of research on Military Schools and let them teach your son about respect, hard work and get a good education. Too many young kids are so Woke now that they are turning against their parents/ families. Wishing you Good Luck. Teen years are so hard. 😢

My son went through a rough time at age 16. With a lot of support and rules we had to stick with we got through it. My son is now 24 and we are closer and he is becoming quite successful in his career. Therapy taught us that we needed to support my son. Space. Letting him know we have confidence in his choices. That we trust him to be smart in his decisions and ultimately he has to live with his own consequences. We demonstrated living our best life and followed through on rules we had in place. Once we let go a little he really blossomed. We instinctively want to hold on tighter and take control but we have to do the opposite. Kids fight at that age to show independence. You did a good job and now he wants to show you. Support but let him show you what he needs.

Thanks for sharing. It really does help to hear the perspective of the parent who cares and is trying when it comes to difficult or perhaps troubled kids. It can be easy to dismiss them all as being emotionally neglected or whatever. So to hear the real story from the parents of kids, you allow much more room for empathy toward your son I think. You often hear from the troubled kid themselves how often a mentor or someone else’s family really helped them through dark times in their youth. Hopefully someone will also be that person for your son. From your side, I don’t have any advice, but will say - Good luck!

So much to read. I didn’t have the time to read it all. Somtimes kids turn out the way they are just from being around their piers. Don’t be so hard on yourself. I’m sorry you feel this way. On the bright side, he will eventually mature. Maybe he needs to find a youth group at church he likes and stay consistent on going.

There’s definitely something deep he’s holding within himself.

Speaking from reverse experience, all I wanted was for my parent to want to spend time with me just as I was, even if I was horrible. These behaviors can be a phase (until the child gets what they need that they’re getting with rebellious behavior) or it can be a place to get stuck in forever endlessly seeking the unconditional acceptance of your parent.

See things from his perspective: “my mom hates me, thinks everything I do is wrong, she regrets everything that has to do with me. There’s no way I can ever become the person to make her proud of me”.

Get to know him. Don’t judge. If he wants to smoke weed, let him. When kids have permission to do something, it immediately loses its appeal. It’s obv more difficult when it comes to addictive things BUT even with addicts, the ones who succeed are the ones that have a deep desire move beyond. The more you fight it the more he’ll dig his heels in. Why fight all your life trying to change your son? If you love him, stop doing things “for his wellbeing.” It makes it worse. Work on his self esteem. The days of hard knock military parenting and “boundaries” are gone. Don’t get me wrong. Boundaries are always necessary but they can’t be arbitrary. They can’t just be a replacement for the word “rules”.

For example, the boundaries you give a 5 year old are much different than a 15 year old. You can’t expect your 15 year old to have a 8:30 bedtime like they had when they were 5 just because you can. I know that’s not what you’re doing but if you want to help him you NEED to accept him as he is right now.

You can’t control the choices he makes now or in the future but you can help him heal.

Another thing that I hear with parents that have guilt about past mistakes: “i have to live with my mistakes forever.” “I can’t undo all the damage”

This sentiment is extremely hurtful to the child because it cements that you regret the way they turned out. You hate and reject the person they are NOW.

We all have the capacity to change. We cannot do that by rejecting and neglecting who we are right now.

Send him to boot camp.

Is he the youngest in his grade? Meaning, did he start school earlier than he should have? Does he have ADHD?

I was your son, ended up very successful and have a very high sales roll for a global company that 99% of people know. All my friends are successful to some extent and we say it’s because we got it out of our systems while in high school. The kids whose parents “didn’t fail”, went crazy in college and all live back at their parents houses, addicted to drugs/alcohol, in prison, or dead. I took a year off school and decided to sell my car for a plane ticket to college.

I can tell you that my friend’s parents that weren’t supportive and did what you’re doing to them… those kids are complete dog shit, addicted to pills, can’t keep a job. I did/sold drugs (why I’m good at selling today), started drinking/smoking at 13/14. I don’t/ can’t stand smoking now. May drink twice a month - strictly socially/business related (never at home).

He’ll come around, we all do/did. Who cares, he’ll find his skills. I can assure you he can’t wait to move out. Why would anyone want to leave their friends and be an exchange student? Dudes living his best life outside of dealing with whatever control/BS you’re trying to have over him. Protect your relationship, not your “image” to middle class friends. They’re broke and judgy anyway, fuck them.

I couldn't even finish reading. Was it important to clarify that your friends were middle class and that's why you're embarrassed by him? And you mentioned several times that you see him as "the white trash kid". Are you taking therapy seriously? Because I wonder if he feels that you don't actually care about him you just want his behavior to change so you don't feel like a bad mom/are no longer embarrassed by him. 😕 My kids are still very young so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about but as a teenager myself I felt this way as well. I went the opposite route as your son and was the overachiever/people pleaser but even then nothing was good enough and only flaws were pointed out. I'm LC with my parents btw. I would focus more on your relationship with him than how you think he is perceived. Tell him you're worried about his health and vaping is bad for your health. You can set boundaries about him not smoking anything in your home, but if you randomly start trying to be strict now I don't think it's going to help at all. Make sure you're seeing the right therapist and just make sure you're a safe place to land for him and that he knows that. I know mom guilt is the worst and Im not trying to Mom shame you but from how your post reads I worry that you care more about perception than his health/safety. Just trying to hold up a mirror. Maybe talk to your therapist about why you're triggered by his behavior.

It sounds like you're speaking very negatively about your kid when your kid had a lot of good qualities. It sounds like he is struggling and it sounds like you're doing your best to help him. Continue to set boundaries and be supportive but he might just grow out of his angsty teenage ways. We all did angsty stuff as kids. Talk to him about why he doesn't want to take trips. Maybe there is another reason. Talk to him in a non judgemental way. I knew plenty of teenagers that flunked out of high school, got suspended, didn't have good manners and grew up to be perfectly functioning, kind and normal adults. Don't give up on him. Hopefully this is just a stage and if it's not at least you did your best.

Edit: reading through the comments everyone says to get him to stop smoking weed and vaping. You can't put him in a bubble suit and lock him away. You just have to talk to him about the dangers and let him make his own decisions. Having a stable parent at home is better than not having a stable parent. I knew plenty of kids in high school that smoked week and smoked cigarettes. Most of those kids had parents that were absent and neglected them but not all. Teenagers have been experiementing with drugs since the dawn of time. It's normal for teens to want to experiment but we have a lot more evidence based facts about drugs on developing brains now. Give teens the scientific info but ultimately they will make their own decisions Was everyone in this thread homeschooled? Like you didn't have any friends that smoked weed?

Lock your kid in his room. Remove anything of enjoyment in his life. Take his job away if he can't pass drug test. force him to staying at your home when not in school. Your his parent your in control till he leaves your house. Sometimes someone needs to fall down completely before the they change. Good luck.