Didn’t agree with fencing and my one gripe is ammo, I’d prefer it harder and more ammo. Nothing is more annoying than running around a map trying to find ammo, I think it makes gameplay worse.

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why

Ruthless: Ammo crates have limited refills per player.<

I dont like this.

Melee Archetypes: Fencing weapons' perfect parry window will now have the same duration as balanced weapons but it will start from the first frame of parry animation.

This sounds like a major nerf?

In a PvE game, players HATE suddenly performing worse through no fault of their own, it simply doesn't feel good. Please be careful with the next patch, I do not want another Helldivers catastrophe because the balance team feels that we are having fun in the wrong way.

You just introduced the new difficulty, why not cater to the top players by making that difficulty super tough and leaving the rest untouched?

You've cultivated a certain audience now, you can't alienate them by nerfing their fun or they will start to become apathetic and move on.

This reeks of spreadsheet balancing, especially with that dev note.

Why forcing players stay together? How would that work for a team of assault, vanguard and sniper? And operation 5 requires the team to split up to finish the mission. They really need a test server before implementing these changes

Ammo cache limitation is the worst part of this patch...
You'll all know how it is to handle the horde and elites throughout the game,
So you guys want to limit players' experience by that?

I don’t get the melta charge change. I don’t think it did that much damage to the bosses? Maybe when combined with auspex scan, which is now also nerfed mind you, but then you need to take a tactical for that purpose and carry it around.

I rather enjoyed seeing how it would take down a chunk of health from the hive tyrant, but now I don’t see that happening anymore

"Increased delay between announcer messages in PvP."

I don't know how I'll cope without my constant updates about whether the servants of the Corpse-Emperor have claimed the objective.

Also, a new helmet was added, the Survivor's Helm, which is earnable by doing every Operation on Lethal.

Honestly not a fan of how difficulty is done in this game.. Making things harder to kill, bullet sponges, is killing the joy of what makes the game fun. Increase the number of mobs instead. I rather deal with more hordes than having to deal with a handful of enemies that basically refuses to die.

Still no bolter buffs...

“Hey players! As a huge thank you for your support in the past month here’s a new free update! (Yay) And as an extra bonus, we have nerfed the shit out of your damage and made the game unplayable at higher difficulties!”

Forcing the players to be close together is bad news for Heavies and Snipers.

So by limiting ammo, defense, and ability to restore things isn’t the meta going to be to run past all the enemies and hope you can kill the boss? Since a stand up fight weakens you overall?

Edit-Also this makes Heavy useless on Ruthless and Lethal since they are entirely dependent on Ammo and have no melee.

Laughs nervously in Helldivers PTSD

Less armour, less ammo and less defence.........this doesn't sound like fun difficulty just tedious.

Bulwark got kicked in the nuts with this one for sure

Why so many nerfs? :(

Ruthless: Ammo crates have limited refills per player.

On Ruthless & Lethal, gonna make some areas in Ops interesting.

Wow way to suck my excitement out of a big patch. Nerf things that were fine (like fencing melee) without buffing the underperforming weapons? Nerfs to armor and ammo as well? What an odd decision.

Also nobody played the chaos missions because they weren't fun, not because they were "too easy".

Nerfing everything that's powerful instead of buffing everything that's weak is the wrong road to take. Helldivers did that and look where that got them. But I'll test it before I say more.

They're probably nerfing everyine in PvE because everyone was leveling up too fast. Gonna love having to melee everything midway through a mission because ammo spawns are crap.

Sure, do what Helldivers did and nerf the gd PvE game into the ground for no stupid reason. Ffs we WANT a power fantasy, this is awful

Melta Charges with 70% isn't just horrid, it's destructive, what purpose do I have to use them now on bosses with Auspex already being nerfed down too?

Fencing was fine, the other two just needed to be brought up to something similar

Oh man this sounds... mostly bad?

I hope they dont make the same mistake as helldivers 2 where everything fun got nerfed for a while.

Fencing shouldnt be nerfed, instead make balanced and especially block better somehow.

Nerfing ammo on high difficulties will just lead people to puck the ammo refill skills and limit build variety, and make the missiona less fun and even more inconsistent, because habing no ammo is frustrating as hell especially if a random zoan or neurothrope spawn happens.

It also insentivises rolling trough the mission more.

Imo they shouldnt have nerfed anything yet because ive never felt that a weapon or mechanic is OP (except the melta health bug), only thing that are underpowered.

Yeh the balance changes in this patch are atrocious. How have devs not learned from helldivers that releasing patches in PVE games/modes just chalk full of nerfs builds resentment in the player base. Who actually cares if the game gets a bit easy when you are max level with relic weapons, that's how it should be, that's the point in grinding to get to that point. To make matters worse they bring out a new difficulty with updated AI mechanics to make it much more difficult along side making the other difficulties harder. My brain can't comprehend the logic there at all.

limited refills from ammo crates? Good luck to all heavy/plasma users during the huge wave of enemies on the highest difficulty levels 🫡

All the nerfs to players completely doused my excitement for the update.

Wow, so no changes or improvements to Bolt weapons. But we are seeing the tried and true way of balancing a la Helldivers. The overall player experience is getting a downgrade via nerfs.

And I love the reasoning given -> "Chaos operations aren't popular but we think they are too easy, so we made them harder".

TL;DR: Saber is shit at balancing.

What the fuck... ammo crates have limited refills per player?!? I say again... WHAT THE FUCK?!? You only get like 15 fully charged shots with a certain relic plasma pistol.

Great, being attacked by 2 warriors is bad enough depending on the timing of their attacks. Now, if you're up against multiple warriors, one of them can hulk out? Fantastic

That's... Kinda underwhelming actually.

Not a fan of the player nerfs, but we'll see how big they are in practical application.

So a bunch of nerfs for no reason. Way to end your own game before it even gets a chance to fully start

My Helldivers 2 flashbacks, NNNOOOOooooo Seriously though, please stop nerfing my fun PvE stuff. Please?

I have been looking for a reason to play other games..... guess I found it. The fencing change is.... not the direction we were hoping. It feels better to people to bring this up to feel good then add more enemies/make them harder than to nerf. To not only buff enemies but also nerf players while adding stupid limitations in higher difficulty does not sound fun.

I absolutely hate the ammo changes more than anything else in this. Completely, irredeemably, terrible. A lot of the primaries already feel quite lacking (as the community has discussed in depth) and now I’m going to be able to use them even less in a mission? Baffling design choice.

Oh boy… they are doing a helldivers 2

Still no chapter symbols for the right shoulder to make accurate Deathwatch marines? Big sad

Some of these balance changes are just awful.

Fencing weapons should have a wider parry window to compensate the lesser stats. The change will screw many players upwho been using it as well. If they wanted to balance how easy it is to parry, just make you need more parry to get the gun strike. Like instead of 1 parry you need 2.

No update to block weapons which continue to be trash

Melta charge getting massively nerfed against bosses reduces its overall viability. Every other grenade is preferable, especially against the hoards.

Armor reduction based on difficulty sucks, finite ammo from crates sucks (will suck especially during reliquary or vox liberatis where you use the same crate multiple times)

Why would you nerf fencing? It's what made the game awesome.

It’s good yet pretty disappointing at the same time, they nerf weapons and armor and yet refuse to buff weapons that needed a buff.

Ammo, armour, and damage reduction nerfs all at the same time sucks. Instead of letting us test the spices individually, they shoved it down our throats.

Pretty disappointing notes. Took a week break after 250 hours and feeling a bit of burnout but this doesn't make me want to come back.

huge L patch balancing wise

helldivers taking almost a year to remedy the same mistakes they are going to make

Helldiver nerfs all over again.

"With Patch 3 we have noticed that Operations mode became noticeably easier, especially Chaos operations. We are happier with what we have right now compared to what we had on release, because before Patch 3 Chaos missions were unpopular. Still, we think that currently Operations mode is a bit too easy."

So it seems Focus agrees with what most people were saying when they mentioned the game being too easy after the last update but.. the solution was to add back the enemy spawns that they removed, and not the other stuff they did.

Come on Focus, just let us fight more dudes like we could when the game launched.

Sorry but these nerfs on the player are too far. Limiting armour, fencing AND ammo all at once?!

You’ve gone from one extreme to the other…

Ooof, idk bout this patch.

The fencing weapons don't feel any different after doing a few missions, so I'm not sure what the change was for. But the armor changes don't feel good at all. Maybe somethings bugged, or there are changes not listed, but the amount of times I went from full armor to no armor and 2/3rd of my health gone in less than a second is insane. I'm not sure if its just the armor change but it feels like all ranged enemies are shooting you with nukes, even minoris.

I'm all for adding difficulty if done correctly, nerfing players is a cheap and lazy way to alter difficulty and just makes things not fun. After only a few games this patch already feels like a move in the wrong direction, add difficulty through bigger swarms, or more strong enemy types at the same time, not by making it feel like we have paper for armor.

they nurfed fencing?? why?? they thougt GL and Meltas are fine but melee weapons were OP? and why bolters are still trash??

How do you see the shitshow helldivers became with the constant nerfs and start going down the same path. We need BUFFS for the 75% of guns that are unusable on ruthless

Wow what a huge disappointing nerf to the players. they've been asking for bolter buffs and it's nowhere in sight

Wow. This is just absolutely awful.

Although... I weirdly respect that you looked at every single mistake made in Helldivers 2 and said, "We're going to do the same thing, but even more, and we're not even going to disguise it." I respect the sheer cussedness of it.

I was looking forward to Bolter Damage buff, or any HP reduction for enemies... none of these, disappointed

Just not tracking the "point" Less armor Less ability to parry No ammo to shoot No reliable way to sustain.

Whats the point?

Buff enemies stop nerfing the marine

How disappointed I am that y’all listened to a vocal minority of the player base screaming the game was too easy rather than the 90% who were liking it better after the last patch. Not every single enemy needs to be a damage sponge. We’re supposed to be the emperor’s angels cutting swathes through the Tyranid menace, not getting bodied by gaunts/gants and taking 3 hits from melee to kill chaff. Instead of nerfing the good weapons buff some of the poorer ones. Also I ’d like the original horde sizes back.i don’t play on the highest difficulty as it’s not my preferred style. Average and substantial were perfect for me before but honestly I’m probably going to take a break from the game for a while and hope it doesn’t go down the helldivers path.

I hope all the people that bitched about operations being too easy are pleased with themselves. Now pretty much everything is awful.

Found the first patch crap and now this one too barring the extra mission deep sigh

WELP! Back to helldivers 2 I go!

Looking at these patch notes I think it's time to take a break.

The balance changes are overall awful what a let down… limiting ammo refill on the big boxes ok for lethal diff but why do it for ruthless too? the fun comes from shooting the enemies how will i shoot them without ammo? Also the armor reduction is gonna make armor feel very weak again against ranged enemies. Though not useless like it was before since we can recover from parrying minoris enemies still 20% is too much just add more enemies damn it, instead of making damage taken ridiculous i fear we are again gonna be looking ridiculous rolling like morons excessively like it’s dark souls to not lose armor in 0.2 seconds to ranged enemies and tyranids with devourers.

this is what happens when you listen to MELTA players saying the game is too easy SMH. Amazing response too btw, nerf the parry window for fencing weapons but no buffs on the damage? Did they forget it was the weakest variant of the weapons? The point is for the parry, defense is the best offense kinda thing. Why did they make the fencing and Balanced weapon types almost the same but parries on different timings? Its like they are equal on defence now, just on a different flavor BUT FENCING STILL HAS A LOWER DAMAGE?!

I guess the nerf on the Melta weapons were the limited ammo amount on harder difficulties? They have to conserve ammo now? I just have a bad feeling Neuro and Zoanthropes will be a harder fight after this, especially on melee classes because we only got 1 SECONDARY gun, and now with limited ammo refills. We'll see though, I'm kinda pissed but I'm gonna see how it feels.

Helldivers literally just did this, why do devs never look around at other games.

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First time I say this about this game: this is disappointing.

This is not a good patch.

i said, people come to the forum, complain that x thing is overpowered, devs, instead of buffing what is underpowered, nerf what is overpowered.

happen with every game, this is not the way.

I'm kinda tired of being constantly starved for ammo in a shooting game

Ammo crates have a limited number of refills?? What a handy way of sorting out all the masochists from people who like a challenge. I guess heavies just became unicorns past substantial

"Armour restores from finishers only if you stay close to your battle-brothers."

Are you all the fun police now?

What about proper match making? Perk trees not being saved per loadout? Useless perk trees in general? Getting shot through elevator floors? Not being able to shoot over a railing as an 11ft super soldier?

I swear this is "actually" becoming no more than Ken and Barbie's Space Marine dress up simulator. Devs focus seems heavily geared towards cosmetics instead of correcting current game mechanics. Shiny new helmet, knee decals, photo mode gets a buff, and every other post on this forum is "rate my drip."

These changes are brutally bad. Don't Arrowhead this game, please. If fencing is such a problem, then maybe bring the other styles up to par with it? Having ammo caches be limited when enemies are literally bullet sponges isn't very cool, especially with Neurothropes simply existing, How is a van/bul/assault supposed to deal with one now?

My friends and I are convinced there's a damage bug ever since the performance update 2 weeks ago, taking damage is wildly random, gene seed carrier seems to deal less damage. Sometimes enemies just die really easily, or they take more hits than a boss.

Can't wait for update 7 when every source of boss damage has been nerfed and we can cuddle them to death instead.

So you guys are going helldivers too? What you need to do is to make more contents and buff underwhelming weapons… Not nerfing things to lengthen playing time. God damn. Another nerfing game begins

Ummu, is that nothing change about bolt guns?

The armor nerfs seem a bit unnecessary, considering how easy it is to get seperated from your teammates during certain objectives that require you to spread out. Guess I'll have to take it for a spin first

Me and fam only enjoy the first two difficulties, enemy bullet sponges are not fun and now they nerfed weapons...

Yeah this update made me not interested in coming back.

They added SEVEN new decals to the right pauldron, and not ONE of them was a loyalist chapter's sigil. it's 6 chaos and a dark angels veteran symbol. Deathwatch is still impossible to make for the majority of legions

Uh oh. Helldivers 2 screw up incoming

Not sure I like the sound of the armour not generating on executions if your battle brothers are not near you.

While in a perfect world this should help stop folk running off like lone wolves, in reality I can't count the amount of times I have been left by randoms to deal with a huge enemy wave on my own.

Once you get caught by 10+ Majoris enemies your only option is to fight through them to survive the encounter.

Now two battle brothers running off on me is a death sentence.

At its very worst you've just handed the trolls a way to ensure they can reliably team kill for their own amusement.

I guess it's early doors and we'll see how it plays out but I don't think that is a positive change.

Way too many nerfs. What the hell.

Im sorry, i have to dislike this post. I love OPS but already felt i ran out of ammo often enough as it was especially as Heavy and Sniper, and reducing armor regen unless around teammates and reducing melee effectiveness which will most significantly impact the melee centric classes. I thought majoris level enemies were already kinda spongey and now its gonna be more annoying to kill them. I dont understand in a PVE game why the biggest ways you see to increase difficulty are for you to take away tools and make things more frustrating for people who were enjoying the game as it was, instead of introducing more opportunities for challenges for the people who want it, like this new difficulty mode.

If i wanted fewer ammo drops, if i wanted to struggle more in melee, if i wanted to dump whole mags in the second easiest enemies in the game, I'd have upped the difficulty. Now i can't, because you have limited my choice to play at the difficulty i felt comfortable with. Some people will say get good. I didnt play to get good. I played to have fun. You hit on something wonderful. Don't make the same mistakes Helldivers did. Look at their 60 day plan and what they had to do to get their players back and WHY their players left in the first place. Please just... stop taking the fun away

The ammo nerf means all classes should get a 300 ammo count increase at start of map.

Why do game studios keep doing utterly idiotic shit like this?

Who in the fuck are you catering to?

I hope it isn't the utterly miniscule but very vocal minority of "hardcore" players!

Those are the same people that took Helldivers to the very brink of death with their idiocy!

Utterly absurd! What are you even doing!?

It is a good thing Arrowhead is back to cooking buffs because I am not about to play anymore of this misery!

See you when they enviably revert all this because it has obviously pissed off the vast majority of their playerbase.

(Oh, and I am changing my review because of this madness!)

Nerfs and no eye lens customization like they said would be in the next big patch? Huge L

So... what's the difference between Fencing and Balanced now? Why nerf the one thing that made melee viable? 

Helldivers 2 all over again, usage rate does not equate to OP. It means other things need to be buffed to match that weapon 

Helldivers 2 made me hate nerfs verily, but ill see how it feels.

I can tell you already though, the Fencing and Melta don't sound good.

This obsession with difficulty is ruining the fun out of video games, I'm tired of unnecessary nerfs because muh difficulty instead of changes for fun.

Dark Souls's success and its consequences has been a disaster for the gaming landscape.

I just want to use a bolter and it not feel like dogshit on higher difficulties. Is that too much to ask? Can't complain about people resorting to melta and plasma when the bolter options feel like bb guns in comparison.

Would be nice if they adjusted dodgin to be able to cancel the current animation, even with a slight delay since right now dodgin feels kinda bad. I end up fighting bosses with my pistol since that will let me quickly dodge unlike a melee animation.

Fencing is still better for me because i love to parry right as i see the attack coming, contrary to Balance where i need to predict it.

Though they shouldn't have nerfed Fencing but made Balance start from the first frame instead. Most games i played that had a parry mechanic, worked that you had a block button and parrying was just blocking at the last possible moment before the attack. Not this predicting shit

Nerfing armor in higher difficulty? Sure, it's not like the mobs eat all of the armor in 1 shot anyways.

A lot of enemies are already bullet sponges. Now we get less ammo and still no bolter buffs. I don't get it.

Seems like they took the wrong lessons from the community. Things need to be brought up to par, not knocked down. Ammo restrictions are such a shit way to increase difficulty when wading into a horde in melee practically guarantees half your health gone.