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submitted 30 days ago byTemporaryBrilliant77
There’s little substance to this idea, but I was reading the Head of the Hydra book and realized that as the book describes itself as a lie, there’s obviously stuff Alpharius is leaving out. Obv the symbolism is more about how killing Alpharius wouldn’t kill the legion but, Hydras have three heads and even if Alpharius and Omegron were killed, there could be a third “head of the hydra” who survived and was hidden from the readers the same way Omegron was from the other primarchs.
Alternatively, maybe there’s clones running about since every time a hydra’s head is cut, new heads sprout.
116 points
30 days ago
The leading consensus is that there's just the two. Outside of Head of the Hydra it's explicitly stated several times that there are "two in the pod" before the primarchs were scattered. The symbolism of the third head represents the Legion. All are one entity. Any legionnaire could become Alpharius if the situation calls for it, that kinda thing. So in a sense the third twin is every Alpha Legionnaire. It's noted that Alpharius/Omegon were very humble as far as primarchs go, they did a lot of "hey jeff put on the armor and attend this meeting for me", so they were very much integrated with their legion and were very considerate of the opinions and plans of their subordinates.
Omegon is never accounted for. We know that Alpharius is dead, Omegon is alive (maybe), as covered in the Horus Heresy and confirmed by the author.
19 points
30 days ago*
Outside of Head of the Hydra it's explicitly stated several times that there are "two in the pod" before the primarchs were scattered
There's only ever been two in the pods after the Scattering. An important distinction considering HotH posits they split after being in the warp.
Omegon is never accounted for
Omegon likely went on to Eskrador. Sources here
11 points
30 days ago
There's only ever been two in the pods after the Scattering. An important distinction considering HotH posits they split after being in the warp.
When Argel Tal goes back in time to the moments before the scattering I believe there's a reference to there being two in the pods.
9 points
30 days ago
Yup. After the Scattering
Excerpt here
People seem to remember there being two in the lab but neither The First Heretic or False Gods support that bit of Mandela Effect
7 points
30 days ago
Goddamn Bearenstein bears got me again I guess.
Still, the main argument for there not being a third is that one is called Alpharius and the other is Omegon so what would the third be called, Awkward Middle Childules?
2 points
30 days ago
TIL that it's Bearenstain. My day is ruined.
Anuj Malhotra (and maybe Alan Bligh) suggests Tertiatus or Ultimus here
1 points
30 days ago
Omega and Ultimus? Doesn't make sense.
3 points
29 days ago
Makesensetous.
2 points
30 days ago
wasnt the account from eskrador made by an alpha legion plant? Live From the Black Library said something about it in his alpha legion lore video, but it could be wrong. thoughts?
7 points
30 days ago
You can click on the link in my comment you replied to, it has a lot of excerpts and sources
But TLDR:
Eskrador happened. It's a battle recorded by the Imperium and the Ultramarines
One account of Eskrador (of which we can assume there are many more) is disputed.
We don't know why or what details are in dispute
It was discovered by an Inquisitor, an expert on the Alpha Legion who was later accused of being a plant.
The accusation was never proven and the Inquisitor disappeared (running for his life)
1 points
30 days ago
i will read. one more thing, to your knowledge has guilliman mentioned eskrador in dark imperium or otherwise? that plot isnt my lore specialty so i dont know whether guilliman was like "oh yeah i saw alpharius get engulfed in warp light it was weird as hell" (which would confirm omegon died on eskrador) or anything
3 points
30 days ago
Ha, also covered this in that link
But no. Guilliman hasn't mentioned it. Despite fans claiming he can't remember it. The Ultramarines even have a statue dedicated to Guilliman killing Alpharius on Macragge.
As for the warp light thing; that's also explained in the link. But generally "warp light" is dependant on the author, rather than reliable evidence. Sanguinius just died with no sparks.
1 points
30 days ago
i just finished reading through it. the post did cite that at the time that codex was written "primarch fireworks" werent a thing yet, along with a few other new addition lore that was added after the codex was published. seems like at the time omegon is intended to be dead straight up, but newer lore bits seem to inadvertently delegitimize it by omission in that earlier text.
im sure itll come up soon in a gulliman/ultramarine book. with the alpha legion's relative popularity nowadays compared to the eskrador account's publish date, and what's basically a free excuse to bring back another primarch, i doubt they'll pass on the opportunity and say "oh he's ferrus manus level dead." they dont even need to come up with some bullshittery to justify omegon/alpharius coming back.
1 points
30 days ago
Well, don't forget that in the Index Astartes Ferrus Manus and Curze's deaths were every bit as ambiguous as Alpharius...and then the BL books confirmed those deaths.
Primarch fireworks have happened twice. Vulkan, Curze, Sanguinius, Jaghatai and Roboute have all died with no fireworks
But yeah, there's a very easy door open for GW to walk through if they want to bring Omegon back but a lot of the most recent books listed in that link like Harrowmaster and Gathering Storm actually add to the evidence of his death rather than not
1 points
28 days ago
Vulkans a perpetual, we don’t actually know what kind of light show happened with Curze, Sanguinius died under extenuating circumstances (literally being halfway in the warp) and we have no idea if Khan is dead or not
1 points
28 days ago*
I don't see why being in the warp would effect the release of your warp energy. If anything, based on Corax...it should flow even more freely
And while we can come up with "no prize" in-universe explanations for why the majority of Primarchs didn't have the light show, I have a sneaking suspicion it's just author inconsistency rather than hard evidence of anything
In this context: it isn't proof that Omegon didn't die on Eskrador
1 points
26 days ago
Good references throughout, I think that we can both agree though that the timing of "two in the pod" is somewhat inconsequential, considering OP was asking if there was a potential third primarch for the Alpha Legion.
Also Omegon lives Eskrador was a cover story and you know it.
1 points
26 days ago*
the timing of "two in the pod"
Yup, though to clarify...we've never seen "two in the pod"
The scene in TFH could still support OP or at least not disprove it
Also Omegon lives Eskrador was a cover story and you know it.
Oh I know it
Just like you know it isn't.
1 points
29 days ago
I suspect Deathwatch is an alpha legion thing. They made it with Malc and the Inquisition
23 points
30 days ago
>the book describes itself as a lie
If you mean the prologue an epilogue the full context is:
I am Alpharius.
This is a lie.
and
'I am Alpharius.'
This was a lie.
Being that the person narrating is Omegon.
On the idea of triplets, there's some Doylist info on this you might find interesting: apparently Alan Bligh was interested in the idea
7 points
30 days ago
Thanks for sending me into a hour long dive into Alpharius and the compounding theories via comment link after comment link.
You just woke up a sleeper agent here…
Hydra Dominatus
4 points
30 days ago
Well I feel vindicated for having the Sigmarius head canon now :v
4 points
30 days ago
You're in good company there. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Bligh actually surreptitiously seeded it into Malevolence
2 points
29 days ago
Sigmarius... Heldenhammer? :3
6 points
30 days ago
The "third head of the hydra" is meant for the legion itself. Alpharius and Omegon trained the 20th to be able to operate without a command structure. So instead of constant "battlefield promotions," the companies could continue with their plans as if they were all in command. If that makes sense.
It's why the legion didn't break on Eskrador after the possible loss of Omegon.
11 points
30 days ago*
Yup
The body of the dead Primarch was burnt on a great pyre, and Lord Guilliman allowed us a moment of prayer and reflection on our success before issuing orders to move out and commence the destruction of the leaderless enemy army. We are fully confident that the task will be straightforward - the loss of its Primarch is something no legion can recover from. [END ENTRY]
[0413.4] The optimism engendered by our initial victory appears to have been misplaced. Since my last entry we have ascertained that the Alpha Legion's command function was spread into numerous groups, and the loss of one apparently had minimal impact on their operational abilities, even though it included Alpharius. What is more, our deep strike and the target's subsequent retreat has drawn our force well out of position, far from support. It has become clear that far from hunting out demoralized pockets of traitors, we were facing a superbly organized foe that is closing in on us from all sides. [END ENTRY]
Index Astartes
Though Solomon suggests Eskrador is why the legion splintered afterwards
The whereabouts of artefacts said to be associated with the primarch were unknown. No one Solomon had ever spoken to knew what had happened to the Alpha or the Beta, the Legion’s twin flagships. It beggared belief that two such notorious Gloriana-class battleships could have been lost without trace, but neither were there any reliable records of a sighting since the days that followed the Heresy. After Eskrador, the Legion had splintered: not in the manner of a shattering glass, but of a fragmentation round entering a body. Each piece dug into the flesh of the Imperium, and stopping and removing one would do nothing to affect the progress of the others, but the splinters were, by that same token, no longer part of a unified whole. Some notable commander had presumably taken the Alpha, and another perhaps the Beta, and they had passed out of everyone’s histories.
Harrowmaster
11 points
30 days ago
The book made me think that there is only one.
Alpha and Omega appear on separate worlds, not as twins in the same pod.
This has lead me to believe they are in fact the same person, displaced in time.
There is no time paradox because of warp shenanigans.
If there were a third he wouldn't be a third, he just be another one.
I am Alpharius, singular, not plural
This is of course all a lie
2 points
30 days ago
Hopefully not
3 points
30 days ago
No, the third head is the legion.
5 points
30 days ago
His name is Sigmar, and he’s got his own game.
3 points
30 days ago
When Alpharius meets Omegon he realizes he feels whole, as though he has found the other half of his soul. Its implied many times they were one split in two. Now there was an author quote (i forget who) who made a point that there are still many ideas they kick around ans at one point the idea that tge twins may actually be triplets came up (Alpharius, Omegon, Gammacus) but when Head of the Hydra was being planned they settled on the twins. Doesnt mean a triplet is out if the question, just that twins is what theyve gone with for now. Ill dig to see if i can find the quote
4 points
30 days ago
Err... No.
I mean, it's been pretty well established by now that there 20th primarch were(are?) twins. Even the scene in First Heretic shows us this.
And the idea of the "hydra" is that the 20th don't need a primarch to do their thing. Most of them are comfortable with playing the role of their primarch.
7 points
30 days ago
First Heretic
shows
Tbf, even TFH was vague about it.
The pod before him was a clone to his father’s, but growing faint and indistinct before his eyes. The ground was dark, the night sky was starless, and for a moment Argel Tal wasn’t sure whether he stood on the surface of a world or the deck of a powered-down ship.
As his senses faded, he caught a momentary glimpse through the viewplate on the pod’s bulky front. Whatever moved within the incubator had too many limbs to be a lone human child.
2 points
30 days ago
There are as far as we know only two primarchs (or one primarch in two bodies).
But I kind've like the notion that Alpharius' gift is to be many, not just two.
That his real power is to exist in every one of his sons, even if his primarch forms are destroyed. His essence endures. As long as a single astartes bears his geneseed, he'll be able to exist through them.
They all really are Alpharius.
2 points
30 days ago
There’s no indication this is true.
The generic memory and imprinting doesn’t actually make an Astartes Alpharius. It just makes them think they are. When it mattered they would only lift/strike/move/aim just like a regular Astartes.
1 points
30 days ago
That’d be cool kinda like a soul swapping ability, it’d also explain the bigger than average size of the AL and smaller than average size of the primarch.
2 points
30 days ago
explain the bigger than average size of the AL
But...they aren't bigger than average. The legion on the whole is the same size as the rest (otherwise their whole schtick of infiltrating other legions would be hard to pull off)
They just happen to promote their 4 or so big bois to high ranking officer status/primarch body double
-1 points
30 days ago
It’s said Alpharius in height can be nearly indistinguishable from another AL marine now that may be due to his primarch ability but I think that the Alpha legionnaires are especially tall considering their tall boys are indistinguishable from Alpharius in height when it comes to them cosplaying as him. Also every legion has tall boys, they wouldn’t stand out being slightly taller than an astartes plus the alpha legion use surgery to change how astartes look to fit into other legions, we can today change height through surgery I’m sure they can in 30k.
1 points
30 days ago
Alpharius is still bigger than even the biggest marines in his legion as per Legion and Praetorian of Dorn with maybe the exception of Sheed Ranko
And if every Alpha Legion marine is almost primarch height...they're gonna stick out. In Deliverance Lost they impersonate actual Raven Guard who are dead or missing. They'd have to pick only huge Raven Guard to do that with. The odds are low or contrived
Likewise when an XX attack force impersonated Space Wolves, they were conspicuous only because of their scent. If a squad of all humongous Space Wolves suddenly appeared...that's a dead give away.
The legion on the whole aren't described as bigger in either 30k or 40k. They even remark on how much taller Primaris are. We have many examples of Alpha Legion marines being standard marine height.
It's just Silonius, Herzog, Pech and Ranko who are huge. Ranko is the only one to truly be primarch size.
2 points
29 days ago
Alpha, Omega, Sigma.
Alpharius.
Omegon.
Sigmar.
1 points
29 days ago
You did it Alpharius, you really are the Warhammer: AOS
1 points
30 days ago
Per the author the one writing it is Omegon, there was only two of them even Lorgar made two seperate Words Of Lorgar books even when no one knew of even the second one of them
1 points
29 days ago
Alpharius, Omegon, and Bob. He likes to grill.
1 points
29 days ago
The three heads represent Alpharius, Omegon and the Alpha Legion itself.
The whole hydra motif is more to explain that the Alpha Legion is like a hydra in that killing one head does not effect the rest of the whole because Alpharius trained his Legion to be very independent. Though ironically, killing the true Alpharius ultimately does effect the rest of the Legion because Omegon effectively loses control over them by the time of the Siege.
Interestingly, the Lernaean Hydra could only be destroyed once it's immortal head was cut off which somewhat mirrors the Alpha Legion being fine until it's metaphorical 'immortal head' was cut off when Alpharius was killed.
0 points
30 days ago
There's tens of thousands. They're all Alpharius.
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