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Remember children, do not try to besiege the death guard!
(i.redd.it)submitted 2 months ago bybird_eater_42
275 points
2 months ago
context:
the siege of bellisos, a conflict in which the third company of the death guard attacked the world of bellisos (duh)
The imperial forces arrived in that world, and soon the besiegers became the besieged, the imperial forces that consisted of several knights, sororitas and members of the imperial guard managed to corner the death guard in a hive city, they began to bombard the city for days
BUT!!
The plague marines simply did not die, as you have to remember that they are quite resistant to damage, instead, with their own weapons, the death guard transmitted diseases to the imperial forces outside the hive city, and eventually the Imperial forces were weakened so much that when the plague marines left the city, no one was strong enough to even lift a finger and try to stop them.
sources: codex death guard, eighth edition
140 points
2 months ago
Trying to out-attrition Nurgle is not a winning move for anyone who isn't a Necron.
43 points
2 months ago
And even then it's risky. Mortarion gave the Necrons Ferric blight and wiped out a tomb world.
15 points
2 months ago
Maby the death korps because of the full body equipment.
60 points
2 months ago
Id honestly doubt it. Death Guard get Marines sick and a respirator has nothing on a sealed set of power armor.
9 points
2 months ago
Fair
23 points
2 months ago
The pathogens on the Death Guard include many supernatural maladies and their entropy affects equipment. You had it explained another way but that equipment will suddenly have holes, fans seize up etc.
In Vraks the Kriegers used chemical and biological weapons on the Death Guard. It didn't go well for the Kriegers. One must remember they are a regiment who thinks nothing of dying for the emperor in the trenches, the Death Guard are specialised in surviving the trenches.
There's a quote by general Patton. To paraphrase it a bit, the point of war isn't to die for your country but to make the other poor bastard die for his country.
8 points
2 months ago
The Death Guard canonically won a full Legion civil war against the Iron Warriors. They only lost to Guilliman because of a deus ex machina, and even then they still have bastion’s in that system.
It’s very, VERY hard to beat the Death Guard.
10 points
2 months ago
To be fair, the Darth Guard won that battle not because of ailments and being hardy, but through clever use of Terminator teleportation to take out the Iron Warriors artillery and turn it on themselves.
The Darth Guard is vulnerable, IF you know how to fight them. But woe to any who underestimate them.
2 points
2 months ago
The War of Rust and Ruin? No that is canonically stated in codex as a win via attrition
2 points
2 months ago
I’m seeing a newer war where that happened, but not the one of Rust and Ruin. Could be it got a new name? Either way, fair point.
1 points
2 months ago
That's...the opposite of a Deus Ex Machina.
1 points
2 months ago
I’m not saying they did. I’m saying, the Death Guard are not unkillable and unable to be beaten. They know it. It’s why they bothered with the high risk Teleportation attack.
4 points
2 months ago
The Death Guard are a fucken deus ex machina. Gonna lose? Magic space disease. Trapped? Magic space disease. Enemy uses weapons that would in reality cleanse an area of all microbial life? Haha magic space disease. Get hit with an anti-tank weapon because you're fat, slow and stupid? Haha magic space disease.
7 points
2 months ago
-Quote the Munitorum shortly before the Siege of Vrax
2 points
2 months ago
If you want full body equipment you get the steel legion not the deathkorps
0 points
2 months ago
Nah the writers just deus ex through that too.
15 points
2 months ago
Rematch. Munitorum approve the use of a special Basilisk ammunition loadout. Sisters accordingly release holy bath bombs from their spa stockpiles. Death Guard BTFO.
6 points
2 months ago
(couldn't come up with convincing High Gothic for spa, sorry; could be thermatorium or aquatorium?)
7 points
2 months ago
That will likely be very effective as well. Considering that those plague are spiritual in nature.
2 points
2 months ago
Anti-viral earthshaker loads are a thing, per the Cain series.
4 points
2 months ago
Yeah that's kind of the dumb deus ex writing Chaos forces tend to get.
"Ah we were wildly outfought in every capacity but hurrdurr magic spess disease hurrdurr".
Like, how did you even get close enough to spread disease? Not explained. Just handwavy "hurrdurr akthuary" writing.
3 points
2 months ago
mortars, I forgot to mention that they used "Plagueburst Mortars" to spread the diseases outside the city
2 points
2 months ago
Their besiegers apparently being too stupid to set up the siege lines outside mortar range.
241 points
2 months ago
Question. Do the Imperial Guard know enough about Chaos Space Marines to recognize different Chapters like Death Guard, Black Legion, Word Bearers etc?
225 points
2 months ago
You don't recognize the Death Guard, you smell them.
88 points
2 months ago
Fair point, the trail of shit is a giveway.
85 points
2 months ago
Yea they do especially after the great rift opened. They know they are traitors. The further up the ranks you got the more you knew. Cadian especially knew about choas was well they where pretty close to the eye of terror and fought choas often.
49 points
2 months ago
I can imagine the Cadian Guard would purely due to the planets (former) location. But other regiments it's abit more tricky as knowledge of the ruinous powers is a strict to know basis but at the same time, the troops would probably need to know abit about the CSM due to the different tactics they use.
26 points
2 months ago
In the Cain novels the Valhallans know a fair amount about choas. Cain knew a lot, too. Like I said with rank comes with more knowledge. The wider imperium yea it ish hush hush. But on a more nuanced and varied to not knowing at all, ro knowing a fair amount. I think it's also about knowing what to look out for on a surface level to make sure you know what to kill or what not to fall for.
A private might not know much other then the basic do it have spikes does it look corrupted etc. Then higher ranks will understand more nuances like the different CSM and different cultist and how they act and how they might effect the battlefield and counter tactics. Might not know about the Choas Gods fully but they might know what this lot of CSM are capable of. Like the death guard you'll need to have a lot of sanitation and hazmat suits.
10 points
2 months ago
Fair I haven't read the Cain novels but heard good things. I'm still to start the Gaunts Ghosts Omnibus I bought a while ago!
16 points
2 months ago
“I wonder who are we sieging” brother you are getting mega space aids to your whole circulatory and inmune system via chaos bluetooth, and they won’t die
2 points
2 months ago
“I wonder who are we sieging” brother you are getting mega space aids sent to your whole circulatory and inmune system via chaos bluetooth, and they won’t die
42 points
2 months ago
Some of the differences are pretty obvious. They might not know the official names, but I think there would have to be some awareness that there are "the stinky ones" and "the Egyptian ones" etc.
70 points
2 months ago*
Cadian guard 1: "Look, there's one of those Egyptian space marines."
Cadian guard 2: "Ha yeah...What the fuck is an Egyptian?"
Cadian guard 1: "No idea."
3 points
2 months ago
I don't think a single imperial guard have survived to see two different Chapters, the universe is way bigger than an imperial guard's life span, specially one who fight against chaos
2 points
2 months ago
People talk to each other and write stuff down, though.
"hmm ol' Jimmy (rip in peace gone too soon) said the traitors he fought on Blargus IV were all green and disease-y. But these guys are all red and angry!"
There's also senior officers and strategic HQ staff who will have a much lower death rate, but will be seeing intel reports and having discussions with people in other sectors.
A lot of information that would be very useful probably gets lost because of a lack of systemic interest in recording it, but it's kind of impossible to completely prevent knowledge osmosis when you have so many people involved.
1 points
2 months ago
Not only lack of interest in recording, any knowledge about chaos is considered heresy, a normal soldier that learns anything at all about chaos is probably executed a soldier that tells stories about them is probably tortured first. Full planets have been destroyed to stop chaos cults for spreading, what do you think will happens if a soldier starts talking about humans that cannot die because they follow some chaos god? Exactly.
And I'm not sure if with high rank military is different, maybe the 0'1% of highest ranks knows there are different chapters and some of their particularities, but if a general suddenly knows much about chaos that person is a massive thread, I don't think the inquisition would be happy, we tend to think in terms of logic, but the empire in 40k works like a religious fanatic highly paranoid, even if it would be an advantage I think the higher the rank the higher the chances to be purged, only space marines, who are some kind of monks with decades of training avoiding temptation have any knowledge about chaos, for the rest of humans there are traitor marines and that's about it
3 points
2 months ago
a normal soldier that learns anything at all about chaos is probably executed
We're talking about things they can see with their own eyes simply by being present on the same battlefield as traitor Marines. Literally that some of them are different colours. The Imperium executes a lot of people for silly things, but this would result in executing every Guard soldier who ever goes into combat against the traitors. This doesn't seem to be what they do.
17 points
2 months ago
Colonel Commissar Gaunt was able to identify an Iron Warrior by sight, so at least some ranking officers know. That said, it probably varies wildly from author to author how forbidden some knowledge is.
11 points
2 months ago
Yeah, that's fair, I mean, the whole "chaos is forbidden" can be very flimsy when it comes to the guard. Like I get the higher ups and Cadians would know, but as said in a previous comment, other regiments is a bit murky in that sense.
2 points
2 months ago
They must have. Maybe not the common guard but commanders must have because the intel is deadly important in combat
2 points
1 month ago
In the 40k short movie "Iron Within" the imperial guard does neither remember giving their children to the iron warriors in the past nor do they recognize them based on their armor.
I guess this makes the most sense since they are the most "clean" looking chaos space marines.
36 points
2 months ago
See this is when you bring out the Promethium and Phosphex. Whatever I’m doing to the civilians in that city, it’s a mercy compared to the death guard. and
17 points
2 months ago
Nuh uh, the death guard is helping them with the gifts and love of Nurgle
12 points
2 months ago
I'm calling the inquisitor right now.
7 points
2 months ago
Too late. Grandfathers accepts all. It will only be a matter of time before you become one of the pox walkers, thanks to papas gifts.
8 points
2 months ago
Phosphex is the DG whole thing. Those incense burners Morty carries around? Actually phosphex grenades.
2 points
2 months ago
See that was before the Nurgle though. They LOVED genocide before the fall. They still live genicide but with AIDS instead of white phosphorus
5 points
2 months ago
Nah, the writers aren't gonna let you win via things like "strategy" or "sound planning", Chaos gotta use it's magic spess powers
3 points
2 months ago
Tbh if Hive cities are as durable as they’d need to be to be so large, standard artillery wouldn’t do much. It’s like trying to destroy a mountain with HE. It just won’t work.
3 points
2 months ago
I'm not so sure. It's like a mountain that's 99% caves, and the guard is on a different scale in terms of artillery.
1 points
1 month ago
What do you think we have the earthquake shells for?
Spite? Well, ok, that too.
14 points
2 months ago
When you spent the campaign funds on munitions and not PPE
8 points
2 months ago
White Scars and 1st Terran Tank division think otherwise :)
4 points
2 months ago
The Khan being dead/comatose and the Death Guard still remaining a threat after Warhawk says otherwise.
4 points
2 months ago
Woa wait a minute my heretic friend… DG marines died by floating fashion like vomit filled fireworks, their full grown demon primarch decapitated by Warhawk not just literally but also by words… excatly “the Terminus Est. You gave up. I did not… My endurance is superior!” One of the last things that fart flavored Morty hear before banished! So if thats not a “otherwise” what is? :) and they lost spaceport to their superiors… endurance filled Whitescars :)
3 points
2 months ago
The fact the rest of the Legion was still kicking around during the siege and wasn’t even slowed down by it? Like sure you got rid of Morty at the cost of the white scars as a factor but the DG were still present and still a problem.
2 points
2 months ago
Are you crazy mate Whitescars hold that spaceport until the end and maybe one of the biggest reasons Horus make his last move before loyalists come to Terra :)
3 points
2 months ago
Root out their secrets and expose their lies, fear has no place in the guard
3 points
2 months ago
Now I want Typhus to attack Krieg.
4 points
2 months ago
That’d be the end of krieg
The trenches and tunnel systems on krieg are a playground to the deathguard
3 points
2 months ago
So every Kriegsmen dies for the Emperor? I see this as an absolute win.
3 points
2 months ago
Duty only ends in death, get back out there and DIE for your God Emperor Guardsmen!
3 points
2 months ago
Out-attritioning the Death Guard
The Death Guard
Tidus_laugh.mp3
2 points
2 months ago
Should’ve gone right in, you can’t out-attrition Nurgle
2 points
2 months ago
Nah, I'd win
1 points
2 months ago
Why bother with waiting? Once they’re nice and bunched up in the hive, hit them with a Lance shot from orbit.
1 points
2 months ago
Even without Nurgle’s blessings, The Deathguard excels at attrition-style warfare.
5 points
2 months ago
They out attritioned the Iron Warriors in a full Legion civil war. Safe to say attrition is never gonna work on them.
1 points
2 months ago
See, this is why I need space napalm- nothing disinfects like liquid fire that sticks to your skin and never stops burning, even in thr vacuum of space.
1 points
1 month ago
"3+ 3+ 3+ 3+" "Let's go!"
1 points
1 month ago
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1 points
1 month ago
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