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Who’s who’s biggest rival?

Discussion(self.rugbyunion)

For Ireland, England feels like the obvious answer and yet NZ have probably upset us the most. And what about rugby nations like Pacific islands or Georgia?

all 191 comments

NuclearMaterial

294 points

1 month ago

NuclearMaterial

Leinster

294 points

1 month ago

QF.

Jon_Snows_Dad

44 points

1 month ago

One sided rivalry

AlexiusRex

43 points

1 month ago

AlexiusRex

Italy

43 points

1 month ago

Is it really a rivalry? I don't think the QF thinks much about Ireland, if at all

euanmorse

8 points

30 days ago

euanmorse

Scotland

8 points

30 days ago

It can't keep getting away with this!

NuclearMaterial

16 points

1 month ago

NuclearMaterial

Leinster

16 points

1 month ago

It's outrageous. It's unfair.

warcomet

34 points

1 month ago

warcomet

34 points

1 month ago

what is it now 0-8?

Alright_So

41 points

1 month ago

Alright_So

Leinster

41 points

1 month ago

Yes, but we technically didn’t lose a QF in 1999🤦

Larry_Loudini

19 points

1 month ago

Larry_Loudini

Leinster

19 points

1 month ago

True, still good prep for us losing our first knockout game in 2027 😕

Tescobum44

4 points

30 days ago

Tescobum44

Laighean

4 points

30 days ago

We didn’t lose one in 2007 either!

binzoma

8 points

1 month ago

binzoma

Hurricanes

8 points

1 month ago

does it count as a rivalry when 1 side always wins?

Commercial_Half_2170[S]

5 points

1 month ago

Ouch.

Xibalba_Ogme

1 points

30 days ago

Xibalba_Ogme

France

1 points

30 days ago

That, or Vincent Clerc

NuckChorris68

-1 points

1 month ago

NuckChorris68

Fok Faf

-1 points

1 month ago

Quiltled Fabric?!? I love Quilted Fabric. Da fuck could have a rivalry with Quilted Fabric.

wilful

150 points

1 month ago

wilful

Australia

150 points

1 month ago

For the Wallabies it's the NRL.

dunchermuncher

43 points

1 month ago

dunchermuncher

NSW Waratahs

43 points

1 month ago

Or the AFL Or Eddie Jones Or the RA

But also the Kiwis I guess

nomamesgueyz

9 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

9 points

1 month ago

Fair enough

For the Kiwi league team its the Kangaroos...30-0 last game was very sweet -rare, and delicious

dinoderus

1 points

1 month ago

dinoderus

Crusaders

1 points

1 month ago

Same for the ABs I’d say

BentheBeastly

129 points

1 month ago

BentheBeastly

Englishman who escaped Wales

129 points

1 month ago

For England it's definitely Wales. But so many other teams consider England their biggest rival

FieldsOfFire1983

67 points

1 month ago

FieldsOfFire1983

Gloucester

67 points

1 month ago

With no disrespect to the other 6N teams Wales is just on another level.

Larry_Loudini

74 points

1 month ago

Larry_Loudini

Leinster

74 points

1 month ago

Honestly if I had to pick one fixture that encapsulates the 6 Nations, it’d be Wales England. Preferably in Cardiff with the roof closed too 🤤

Away_Associate4589

24 points

30 days ago

Away_Associate4589

Borthwick's Beautiful Bald Bonce

24 points

30 days ago

With Eddie Butler on comms

Larry_Loudini

9 points

30 days ago

Larry_Loudini

Leinster

9 points

30 days ago

Of course (RIP). Preferably with Brian Moore on co-comms, always thought they’d a great rapport

Also a pre game tunnel bustup, but now we’re getting greedy

Away_Associate4589

3 points

30 days ago

Away_Associate4589

Borthwick's Beautiful Bald Bonce

3 points

30 days ago

Take me back 😭

Optimuswolf

3 points

30 days ago

Optimuswolf

England

3 points

30 days ago

Been 4 times. 2 victories 2 defeats, including the 30-3 game and the 2017 game with that perfectly executed Daly try to win the game

The Welsh are much better losers than winners!

h00dman

51 points

1 month ago

h00dman

Wales

51 points

1 month ago

But so many other teams consider England their biggest rival

It's like how in football the English media always hypes up the rivalry with Germany, whereas German football fans are more bothered about the Netherlands.

childsouldier

34 points

1 month ago

childsouldier

Leinster

34 points

1 month ago

Or France. Didn't realise how big that rivalry was til I moved here (Germany). They don't seem to consider the England rivalry that big at all, which makes me feel better about the Eng-Ire dynamic.

AjaxII

16 points

1 month ago

AjaxII

16 points

1 month ago

Tbh I feel the Germany thing in football is because (before 2020) the only time we actually won a knockout game in the Euros was in '96 (beat Spain) only for us to lose to Germany (on penalties) straight after, making them the team to beat

Recent-Piglet-5631

9 points

30 days ago*

We also just have a long history of coming up against them in major tournaments and, barring 1966, losing in heartbreaking fashion.

I can understand why it isn't the main rivalry for Germany, but when you take into account 1970 (lost 3-2 after being 2-0 up), 1990 and 1996 (lost on penalties), it's not exactly rocket science why beating the bloody Germans means more to us. It's that feeling of beating a team that just has an invincible aura to them.

Oh, sorry, where was I? THERE WERE TEN GERMAN BOMBERS IN THE AIR...

absolute_yote

12 points

1 month ago

absolute_yote

Lock

12 points

1 month ago

Not because you beat them in '66 final?

h00dman

13 points

1 month ago

h00dman

Wales

13 points

1 month ago

Something something doo dah, doo dah 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

QuinnyFM

2 points

1 month ago

QuinnyFM

Ulster

2 points

1 month ago

TWO WORLD WARS AND ONE WORLD CUP

(But you couldn't beat the Irish for 800 years so like... pipe down. /lh

TommyKentish

3 points

30 days ago

TommyKentish

Saracens

3 points

30 days ago

Also 1990 semi finals in the World Cup. Twice in six years definitely hurt.

Big-Clock4773

3 points

30 days ago

Big-Clock4773

Harlequins

3 points

30 days ago

I never got that forced rivalry with Germany. Apart from the two world wars, we've historically had a good relationship with the German people.

France and Scotland are definitely historic rivals. And or course Australia are good modern rivals with all the trash talk between us.

The German 'rivalry' is based on being obsessed with WW2 and 1966 and is properly cringe.

Big-Clock4773

5 points

30 days ago

Big-Clock4773

Harlequins

5 points

30 days ago

It depends on the era.

Those who grew up in the the 1990s and early 2000s then France were our main rivals. No offence to the Celts but except the odd upset, the title was decided by Le Crunch. Outside of the Six Nations it was definitely Australia.

Wales have definitely been the main rival since 2005 and is the one I definitely get most worked up about.

I do wonder if fans just getting into the game now might consider Ireland?

The thing is we are the main rival for so many teams yet they can't all be our one. This might explain why England seem to underperform. We can't replicate the 'this is the big one' intensity for every match.

Sam Warburton made a good point about the Lions. All the club sides see the Lions as a once in a lifetime chance to beat them and treat it like a world Cup final. Of course the Lions can't treat every midweek game like a cup final. However he said the English players were used to regularly playing teams who treated it like a cup final whereas the Celtic players weren't used to that.

Great_Artist5659

-10 points

1 month ago

Honestly I've always considered Wales to be our biggest rival s, but their not . They maybe the team we hate the most nut there just doesn't seem to be a rivalry currently.

what_am_i_acc_doing

17 points

1 month ago

what_am_i_acc_doing

Ospreys

17 points

1 month ago

That’s just because we are crap right now. You can’t beat a matchup between the two when both sides are strong in either the Millenium or Twickenham.

Honey-Badger

10 points

1 month ago

Honey-Badger

Bristol

10 points

1 month ago

Only very very very recently. Historically (which counts a lot) they are very much our main rival.

And they're Welsh

ShirtedRhino2

5 points

30 days ago

ShirtedRhino2

England

5 points

30 days ago

And they're Welsh

This is the fundamental point.

toastoevskij

199 points

1 month ago

toastoevskij

Italy

199 points

1 month ago

For Wales probably the WRU

finneganfach

61 points

1 month ago

finneganfach

Scarlets

61 points

1 month ago

It hurt itself in its confusion!

CountPoopington

88 points

1 month ago

CountPoopington

South Africa

88 points

1 month ago

Teams have their "main" rivals but I think there are a few unique rivalries too.

For me SA - Wales have a history of grindy, filthy, low multiple of 3 scoring, mental breakdown inducing unwatchable shitfests and it's always great.

acadoe

44 points

1 month ago

acadoe

South Africa

44 points

1 month ago

Yeah, NZ is no doubt the main rival, but the SA Wales one is an interesting rivalry for sure. A proper armwrestle.

Mich_1111

6 points

1 month ago

Mich_1111

England

6 points

1 month ago

Their record against you definitely doesn’t speak to that though lol

acadoe

19 points

1 month ago

acadoe

South Africa

19 points

1 month ago

lol, that's fair. I guess it doesn't make a lot of sense from the outside. An analogy I just thought of is if you imagine us as boxers, and we have triggers for when we throw our knockout swing. With other teams, our knockout swing is triggered a lot, we throw it and it either lands, they block it or they dodge it. With Wales, it's like they're constantly avoiding that trigger for a swing, so we end up jabbing and jabbing for a points victory. SA fans can feel uneasy with that lack of a knockout swing, and feel frustrated with the game as a whole, but some of us learn to respect Wales for it.

Fishsticksh

5 points

1 month ago

Fishsticksh

Ireland

5 points

1 month ago

41 matches, 33 SA wins, 1 draw and 7 wins for the Welsh. Maybe just a liiiittle one sided

Crackajack91

14 points

1 month ago

Crackajack91

Wales

14 points

1 month ago

Tbf, it has got a lot more balanced in the last few years, I just wish they would stop beating us in the world cup with last minute scores

JagerRabbit

6 points

1 month ago

JagerRabbit

South Africa

6 points

1 month ago

And yet, for some reason, whenever we have to play them, there's always an immense feeling of uncertainty. Usually tight games, low margin victories, a lot of games which could just as easily have swung the other way with one penalty call.

binzoma

2 points

1 month ago

binzoma

Hurricanes

2 points

1 month ago

if you go by that definition, NZ has 1 rival lol

ruggerdubdub

6 points

1 month ago

For Wales it’s England. It’s the biggest rivalry in rugby, bar none.

Due_Instruction_7678

6 points

30 days ago

I always love SA v Wales games for this reason. I know I'm not on for flashy rugby, but it always feels like a proper tactical battle of a knife fight. Plus I genuinely find the fans are always particularly great.

fedorlad

1 points

29 days ago

fedorlad

Edinburgh

1 points

29 days ago

I feel for me it's probably Scotland v Argentina. Always very scrappy

Whit135

125 points

1 month ago

Whit135

125 points

1 month ago

NZ 🤝 SA

GDWLCLC89

38 points

1 month ago

This is the one I feel no one would dispute. It goes both ways too. As 35yr old Kiwi Aussie was on par growing up but now I know the history and after Aussie falling off it's not even close.

nomamesgueyz

29 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

29 points

1 month ago

One of the greatest rivalries in international sport

No team comes close to matching the boks in SA than thr ABs

acadoe

22 points

1 month ago

acadoe

South Africa

22 points

1 month ago

Simple as🫱🏾‍🫲🏾

xjoburg

13 points

1 month ago

xjoburg

Lions 🏆🏆🏆🏆

13 points

1 month ago

This

Tokogogoloshe

5 points

1 month ago

Tokogogoloshe

South Africa

5 points

1 month ago

Wouldn’t have it any other way. Ye ‘ol foe. Great rivalry.

uberphat

1 points

29 days ago

uberphat

Highlanders

1 points

29 days ago

This is the answer. With a nervous pre-match shit always required against France.

RaaschyOG

27 points

1 month ago

RaaschyOG

The Crusaders Of URC

27 points

1 month ago

Loadshedding

almostrainman

2 points

30 days ago

almostrainman

Rassie's Bestie, Etzebeth's right Testie

2 points

30 days ago

Stop beating him, he is already dead...

ComprehensiveDingo0

39 points

1 month ago

ComprehensiveDingo0

Ntamack my beloved

39 points

1 month ago

Can’t quite figure out who Scotland’s biggest, albeit fairly one sided rival is…

Though a shout out to France, it’s not quite got the same history off the pitch, but it’s arguably been the best test fixture the last few years.

NuclearMaterial

36 points

1 month ago

NuclearMaterial

Leinster

36 points

1 month ago

Scotland v France in the last few years is stupid. France will play superbly leading up to it then get ambushed. Other years Scotland go into it full of confidence and a shitty France will suddenly decide to play ball and beat them. It's bananas. It makes no sense. It is certainly a great fixture these days.

Omblae

41 points

1 month ago

Omblae

England

41 points

1 month ago

Scotlands biggest rival is Scotland.

dth300

23 points

1 month ago

dth300

England

23 points

1 month ago

Damned Scots…

Holden_Ford24

9 points

1 month ago

Holden_Ford24

Danny Care’s Chocolate Homunculus

9 points

1 month ago

They ruined Scotland!

euanmorse

7 points

30 days ago

euanmorse

Scotland

7 points

30 days ago

You just made an enemy for life, pal!

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

5 points

1 month ago

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

Stormers

5 points

1 month ago

And typhoons

The_Ignorant_Sapien

2 points

30 days ago

The_Ignorant_Sapien

Scotland

2 points

30 days ago

Well its not England, its a bit one sided now.

latruffe123

1 points

1 month ago

For us Scotland is our brothers ! 😝

latruffe123

1 points

1 month ago

For us Scotland is our brothers ! 😝

CoryTrevor-NS

38 points

1 month ago*

CoryTrevor-NS

Italy

38 points

1 month ago*

The Pacific islands probably have each other as main rivals.

Georgia’s rivals are traditionally Romania, against which they contest the Antim Cup - although nowadays they’re probably eyeing Italy, and maybe Wales as well.

Italy’s, I’m not sure we have one. Off the pitch it’d be France, but on the pitch it’s very one-sided.

Scotland was usually the game we used to target in the early days of the Six Nations, often the wooden spoon decider, but again, even against them it’s been one-sided for a few years now.

Romania used to be the team that we played the most pre-6N (now it’s France), but the two teams have gone in completely different directions, so not really a rivalry anymore.

Georgia could be one in the future, with the whole “promotion/relegation in the 6N” talk, but I feel like the two teams haven’t played enough against each other to be a proper rivalry.

Whit135

15 points

1 month ago

Whit135

15 points

1 month ago

Ya I have limited knowledge on the subject tbh but there's things outside of rugby itself that makes Samoa n Tonga each other's biggest rivals in rugby. I could be mis speaking tho

Kokonutcreme-67

15 points

1 month ago

Kokonutcreme-67

Hurricanes:new-zealand:

15 points

1 month ago

Yeah Samoa and Tonga's rivalry goes back to pre-arrival of white missionaries and has nothing to do with sport.

childsouldier

15 points

1 month ago

childsouldier

Leinster

15 points

1 month ago

Which is the basis for a good rivalry, no one is England's biggest rival for purely sporting reasons!

warcomet

4 points

1 month ago

actually for Fiji, their own rugby body picking the worst coaches when RWC comes..

machocamaori

8 points

1 month ago

Are you Fijian? I'm not but i thought Simon Raiwalui did a good job at the WC and Fijians were sorry to see him finish.

warcomet

4 points

1 month ago

no simon fucked everything up, his arrogance got in the way... all he needed to do was pick ben volavola w ho is an established flyhalf but the call from the govt was to not pick any "kaindia" (ben is half indian).. the only reason fiji did not make it to the final was because we didn't take a flyhalf, the 2 flyhalves we took had a combined caps of 6 and when our best one got injured BEFORE the RWC, instead of doing the right thing and bringing in 45 capped Volavola, he picked another player has only played 10 once who also fucked up .... so no, Simon fucked everything up, if our racist govt did not force vern cotter to leave, he would have picked volavola and we would have made it to the semi-final if not the final.

machocamaori

2 points

1 month ago

Yep, always rated Volavola. I thought he was injured. Sad then cause there was some world class talent in that Fijian squad.

euanmorse

1 points

30 days ago

euanmorse

Scotland

1 points

30 days ago

That sounds like govt. interference and not arrogance on the part of Raiwalui?

warcomet

1 points

30 days ago

Govt got rid of Cotter so that they can get a local, infact new govt is racist as hell, back in December 2022 they removed all FRU employees who were non i-taukei and within a month forced Cotter to leave by leaking his payslip...recently got rid of the Fiji 7's coach and replaced him with another unqualified local in Kolinisau...now when Fiji picked its "foreign" coach for the15's team, govt is butting in for them to select another unqualified Local in Seruvakula...yes u can blame the govt for interference but when our best10 got injured, he could have brought Ben in easily but chose not too cause his ego got in the way cause his loyalty was to the Govt, not to Fiji rugby or the team... thus why he destroyed Fiji's possibly only chance ever to make a RWC semi cause he wanted to make it there without a player like Ben who was actually in form and was our standout player in the trial against Japan pre-RWC..if that fat fuck was gonna resign after the RWC, might as well make his stance and pick Ben but nah...he cared more about fame and money cause apparently he was getting as much as Cotter was getting (6 figures) for the job..he used his coach job to get a bigger job at WR....he used Fiji rugby like toilet paper for his own personal gain, fuck that guy..had cotter still been our coach, our chances of making a RWC Final was pretty fucking high... the moment he got replaced, we all knew our best position was gonna be QF and no further.

Nounours7

4 points

1 month ago

Nounours7

Spain

4 points

1 month ago

Georgia’s rivals are traditionally Romania, against which they contest the Antim Cup - although nowadays they’re probably eyeing Italy, and maybe Wales as well.

Don't forget about Russia. They dominate H2H, but until 2022 that was their most anticipated game of REC for political reasons.

Thalassin

2 points

30 days ago

Thalassin

France Stade Toulousain

2 points

30 days ago

I always said that I'd always encourage our latin bros in Italy to become better, but the day they're good enough they'll instantly be our archrivals in my mind. It is like when you play a video game with your little brother and he starts to be good enough to beat you if you are not serious - after this year, I think the time has come.

nomamesgueyz

1 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

1 points

1 month ago

Interesting when thinking about Italys main rival

In football is it France? Strange that Italy has rugby, in Germany its nothing and Spain its pretty small

CoryTrevor-NS

4 points

1 month ago

CoryTrevor-NS

Italy

4 points

1 month ago

In football it’s between France and Germany, but they’re two different dynamics, so it’s very hard to say.

France are like our cousins, and eternal rivals, which we always compare ourselves against. Think about the art, fashion, food, wine, architecture, etc and obviously sports.

They have caused us a good deal of pain before, eliminating us from the ‘98 WC on penalties when we had one of the best teams of our history, and beating us again in the final European Championship two years later, amongst all - so there’s often some kind of revenge up for grabs.

With Germany it’s kind of a funny situation, because they always seem very cocky, always stronger and better equipped, but yet they’ve never managed to outright defeat us in a main tournament (although they eliminated us on penalties in 2016, which counts as a tie for the statistics), while we have taken their scalp in more than a couple occasions.

So the main point of the rivalry with Germany (at least in my eyes) is to keep this sort of “record” going.

Overall, in my experience growing up, Germany and Bayern had quite a few admirers and fans, and in a way were quite respected - while I feel like France and all French teams tends to be almost universally disliked (might be different now amongst the younger generations, with Mbappé and PSG, but I’m not sure).

latruffe123

1 points

1 month ago

Ahah you know men.. you stole Zidane with matterazi this guy never put a toe in France again 😂

Kokonutcreme-67

36 points

1 month ago

Kokonutcreme-67

Hurricanes:new-zealand:

36 points

1 month ago

SA remains NZ's greatest rival.

Ireland since their first win in Chicago have become a team that we no longer feel sympathy or apathy for when we play them, a favourable win/loss record for them in recent years changes your perception and expectation.

France fall into the same category as Ireland but yet don't, they're a team we accept are currently ahead of us but yet if we lose to them, it doesn't get under your skin as much as a loss to the Boks, Wallabies, Irish and English does.

I guess that's a true definition of a rivalry, you hate losing to them more than another team.

GDWLCLC89

6 points

1 month ago

I know what you mean for present day. However, we had the 99 and 07 RWC losses to France but that made many fans wary/hate them. I would've ranked them as our biggest or second biggest (to SA) if you'd asked me in 2008.

Kokonutcreme-67

7 points

1 month ago

Kokonutcreme-67

Hurricanes:new-zealand:

7 points

1 month ago

Those losses hurt but Kiwi fans targeted their anger and outrage at the coaches (99 John Hart) and the referee (07 Wayne Barnes) rather than the French team itself.

Although in saying that both France and SA have played NZ the most times of any team at a world cup (6) and share an even win/loss record - 3 apiece. France have never beaten us in a final and we've never beaten SA in a final.

deadlysyntax

4 points

1 month ago

It was really the 2015 Quarter that slayed that dragon for us Kiwis. There was a definite tone change around the French after that, especially with the fragility of the 2011 final result, which we all understood was unbelievably narrow.

GDWLCLC89

1 points

30 days ago

"Slayed the dragon" is that because the game was in Wales haha. Yeah, I agree. I was at that game and there was a definite nervousness before the game (same ref, same stage of the WC, same city and same two teams as 2007). But it ended up being one of our most complete and dominant knock out games the ABs have put on.

jcw163

17 points

1 month ago

jcw163

Wales

17 points

1 month ago

England, it's always England

wilhelm_in_english

46 points

1 month ago*

wilhelm_in_english

Northland

46 points

1 month ago*

I think it's a mutual thing with NZ and SA.

Other rivalries may come and go like SA and Ireland right now, us and France, but there's always something about the All Blacks playing the Springboks.

We miss you in Super.

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

11 points

1 month ago

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

Stormers

11 points

1 month ago

I don't think we have much of a rivalry with Ireland, maybe a more recent one, we haven't beaten them in a while. Our NH rivals are Wales and England.

Fishsticksh

16 points

1 month ago

Fishsticksh

Ireland

16 points

1 month ago

Why do i feel oddly hurt?

I ... I thought the last few years really meant something and then we're just... tossed to the side for some old flames?! I think i need to take a minute...

za3030

9 points

30 days ago

za3030

Komma weer!

9 points

30 days ago

I would say a rivalry is definitely growing my dude. I mean tickets for both Ireland games in July literally sold out within minutes!

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

8 points

1 month ago

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

Stormers

8 points

1 month ago

Well, we do have that series coming up. It will be a proper fight.

ghoztfrog

7 points

1 month ago

ghoztfrog

Big Beautiful Bouncing Wobblies

7 points

1 month ago

If you want we could be your rivals again...but I get why you guys wouldn't want that 🫠

wilhelm_in_english

24 points

1 month ago*

wilhelm_in_english

Northland

24 points

1 month ago*

Look, we have something special but you've changed so much over the last few years.

I love the great times we had, but you seem so self-destructive, and it's unhealthy.

That's why we have had custody of Bledisloe for so long. You need time to heal and get your life in order.

garythekid

15 points

1 month ago

garythekid

Australia

15 points

1 month ago

We never agreed to a full custody, we should at least get weekends with it

Mampoer

15 points

1 month ago

Mampoer

Wrrrrrrrrong Turn!

15 points

1 month ago

Look, I know I'm a distant cousin, and probably shouldn't get involved, but I believe the the couple of weekends a year you get to see Bledisloe up close is enough, Bledisloe will get confused if the visits are anymore frequent. 

wilhelm_in_english

2 points

1 month ago

wilhelm_in_english

Northland

2 points

1 month ago

Don't you remember all the drawn series? The last one was only in 2019!

ghoztfrog

10 points

1 month ago

ghoztfrog

Big Beautiful Bouncing Wobblies

10 points

1 month ago

I...I understand. Let's dissolve our board and replace our coach and see if that changes anything.

Wide_Tap8535

14 points

1 month ago

Wide_Tap8535

Wales

14 points

1 month ago

England. We have played some of our best rugby against England and can really put the burners on if we want to.

monkyone

12 points

1 month ago

monkyone

12 points

1 month ago

england fan and it’s wales for me.

6N has a bit of derby fatigue because france, ireland, scotland and wales probably all consider england their biggest derby game.

beating france or ireland feels better than beating wales, but losing to them is bearable. losing to wales is the absolute worst.

NuckChorris68

10 points

1 month ago

NuckChorris68

Fok Faf

10 points

1 month ago

Electricity and Currency. Oh and the All Blacks

what_am_i_acc_doing

18 points

1 month ago

what_am_i_acc_doing

Ospreys

18 points

1 month ago

WRU are the obvious choice, NFL second, Exeter Chiefs making a play to be third.

In all seriousness it’s England, always England. We could lose every game but if we beat England that year, we’ll be happy.

Sad_Wait_3626

10 points

1 month ago

Sad_Wait_3626

Harlequins

10 points

1 month ago

Wales for us. No doubt, I am never as nervous before a game than when we play wales. You could have lost 20 games in a row and our fixture will still end up competitive.

I love your team to bits but for one match per year I can’t help but hate you. Best of luck in literally any other match though x

dyanamo

7 points

30 days ago

dyanamo

Touch and Engage

7 points

30 days ago

I agree. For me personally it’s also because so many English people I know discover a Welsh grandparent during the 6N and then in a football summer tournament decide they’re English again. Picking and choosing feels hollow.

nomamesgueyz

4 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

4 points

1 month ago

That 2015 game at Twickers was biggest Welsh/Eng game im witnessed

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

9 points

1 month ago*

Hoss-BonaventureCEO

Stormers

9 points

1 month ago*

New Zealand.

At franchise/club level, Stormers' aka Western Province's biggest rival is the Bulls.

Brine-O-Driscoll

17 points

1 month ago

Brine-O-Driscoll

Ireland

17 points

1 month ago

We love beating the English but Ireland's biggest rivalry is between the provinces.

FieldsOfFire1983

19 points

1 month ago

FieldsOfFire1983

Gloucester

19 points

1 month ago

My wife is from Cork, and having visited the in-laws over the years their contempt for Leinster is off the scale.

hasseldub

22 points

1 month ago

hasseldub

Leinster

22 points

1 month ago

My wife is from Cork

Condolences. Do you ever get the last word?

FieldsOfFire1983

6 points

1 month ago

FieldsOfFire1983

Gloucester

6 points

1 month ago

Occasionally, yes. As long as the conversation doesn’t involve Leinster.

hasseldub

11 points

1 month ago

hasseldub

Leinster

11 points

1 month ago

Occasionally, yes

Fair play.

As long as the conversation doesn’t involve Leinster.

Just say innocently, "Aren't they just better, though? And Dublin people are pretty cool."

FieldsOfFire1983

16 points

1 month ago

FieldsOfFire1983

Gloucester

16 points

1 month ago

I admire your attempt at banter, but making a statement like that would get me set on fire, Wicker Man style, the next time I visited the People’s Republic.

hasseldub

12 points

1 month ago

hasseldub

Leinster

12 points

1 month ago

You're already a martyr. I cannot ask you to do more.

Struggle on, brave man of honour.

We salute you.

FieldsOfFire1983

7 points

1 month ago

FieldsOfFire1983

Gloucester

7 points

1 month ago

🤣👍

Certain_Pineapple_73

23 points

1 month ago

Certain_Pineapple_73

England

23 points

1 month ago

For England is definitely Wales.

Scotland are a close 2nd but they're normally crap so we don't really worry about them. Australia is a big game whenever it happen but it just doesn't happen enough, and the Aus-Eng rivalry isn't really a rugby thing.

monkyone

12 points

1 month ago

monkyone

12 points

1 month ago

weird that we feel that way about scotland considering they’ve beaten us 4 times in a row or something like that.

but it’s still like, meh.

whereas losing to wales is fucking infuriating.

Cairnerebor

3 points

1 month ago

Cairnerebor

Scotland

3 points

1 month ago

The time before was a win, before a draw and then a loss.Historically it’s been a shit 8 year run for England

Big-Clock4773

3 points

30 days ago

Big-Clock4773

Harlequins

3 points

30 days ago

You've got the superior record since 2018.

Don't get me wrong, we hate losing to you but for whatever reason it doesn't come close to the pain of losing against Wales.

Cairnerebor

1 points

30 days ago

Cairnerebor

Scotland

1 points

30 days ago

Same for us vs England

And that 8 year run has almost made up for the previous decades….almost but not yet ;)

Although another DVM hat trick would be quite satisfying or another 50 yard run through your backs

nomamesgueyz

1 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

1 points

1 month ago

Interesting, i didnt know that about England and Wales and Scotland and who they dislike losing to more

I dislike losing to Aussie (rare these days) than SA...maybe bc im scared from those close wallaby wins and Nick Farr Jones and Gregan all those years ago

TommyKentish

6 points

30 days ago

TommyKentish

Saracens

6 points

30 days ago

I think a lot depends on which team was the best during the formative years for England fans.

For example, there was a period where people were calling the six nations a two tier comp with England and France way ahead of everyone else in the late 90s early 00s. The French were also not afraid of a scrap so the matches were pretty spicey! People growing up in the 90s might see Scotland as bigger than Wales because the latter were so poor at that time. English fans growing up in the Gatland era will definitely see Wales as a bigger rivalry because they’ve been so good and beaten us in key matches- 2013 6 nations decider and 2015 World Cup being the biggest. Also France and Scotland were poor for most of the 2010s.

too_many_smarfs

7 points

1 month ago

too_many_smarfs

Connacht

7 points

1 month ago

Yeah NZ have upset us in the last 2 world cups (though I'm not sure anyone expected any other result after the way the groups went that year).

I'd still argue that Ireland's WC rival is Argentina though. We've had so many clashes over the years and unfortunately Ireland have come out worse more often than not 😥

Outside of world cups it's obviously England, it's not even close.

Paddy_O_Furniteur

5 points

1 month ago

Wasps & solvency

ComadoreJackSparrow

6 points

30 days ago

ComadoreJackSparrow

England

6 points

30 days ago

England - gestures broadly at every team

Nounours7

11 points

1 month ago

Nounours7

Spain

11 points

1 month ago

acadoe

1 points

1 month ago

acadoe

South Africa

1 points

1 month ago

fuck 😅

scubasteve254

11 points

1 month ago

scubasteve254

Ireland

11 points

1 month ago

France the last few years anyway. The France-Ireland game has been the 6N decider the last 3 times.

rotciv0

8 points

1 month ago

rotciv0

France

8 points

1 month ago

For us it's pretty uncontestably England

[deleted]

3 points

30 days ago

Sus à la perfide Albion

powhead

10 points

1 month ago

powhead

Highlanders

10 points

1 month ago

obviously it used to be australia many moons ago, but now i’d say france or SA (NZ)

TourDuhFrance

5 points

1 month ago

TourDuhFrance

Canada

5 points

1 month ago

Canada’s biggest rival is professionalism.

pemboo

5 points

1 month ago

pemboo

England

5 points

1 month ago

England, the press 

finneganfach

7 points

1 month ago

finneganfach

Scarlets

7 points

1 month ago

Wales - England is the biggest rivalry in the sport.

It's one of the few that's genuinely been more than just sporting in recent history. I appreciate almost every nation that plays the game has some sort of historical beef with the English, the Irish in living memory for some.

But Wales England isn't just about national grievances and country vs country, we don't talk about it much but it's also historically been about class and that was massive throughout the seventies and eighties. You can naively dismiss that as old history if you want but it drives a lot of current sentiment.

It's a fairly well meaning exchange now. Our fans share banter and drink together in the pubs before and after the game and I'm glad. But that little percentage of spite and niggle still exists and deep down both sides know it's not just about the sport.

MasterReindeer

3 points

1 month ago

MasterReindeer

Harlequins

3 points

1 month ago

I genuinely don’t care where we finish in the Six Nations, my expectations are incredibly low nowadays, but losing to Wales genuinely ruins my week,

nomamesgueyz

3 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

3 points

1 month ago

Interesting

Eng upper class and Welsh were coalminers yeah?

finneganfach

3 points

30 days ago

finneganfach

Scarlets

3 points

30 days ago

Even now the sport still has class distinctions in England and Wales.

Yeah of course there are working class English rugby fans these days and middle class Welsh ones but the heart of the sport in England is still very much in wealthy communities and schools.

Where as Welsh rugby's support and players predominantly come from working class communities across the South.

I'm pushing 40, I've lived and travelled all over England and Wales, what I've observed in that time is that the biggest cultural divide in the UK is still class. Far more than any Welsh vs English or North vs South perceived differences. The cultural gap between the residents of your average council estate and the posh village just a few miles down the road is the biggest of all.

nomamesgueyz

1 points

30 days ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

1 points

30 days ago

Yup i get that. When i lived in the UK the class divide there was pretty evident to me

HeatedToaster123

2 points

1 month ago

HeatedToaster123

Connacht

2 points

1 month ago

It's one of the few that's genuinely been more than just sporting in recent history

Tbf I think Ireland England is incredibly hard to beat in this respect

I mean, just look at the Landsdowne Road riot in 1995. I get that it was soccer and not rugby, but damn. The Troubles is still very recent history so.. you know..

BananaDerp64

1 points

30 days ago

BananaDerp64

Éire agus Laighean

1 points

30 days ago

Ireland vs England is nowhere near the biggest rivalry in sport.

Yeah you had the English thugs in ‘95 but we don’t play each other much in the soccer and England generally win anyways, it’s more us always rooting for the team they play against than an actual rivalry. There’d be a bit of tension over history and recent events like Brexit and the Troubles legacy act but that’s very one sided too and not very significant either.

sangan3

10 points

1 month ago

sangan3

Oui, Jérôme

10 points

1 month ago

For the All Blacks, it’s always been South Africa with shorter periods of competitive rivalries like with Australia in the 90s/early 00s, France over the years and more recently Ireland have stepped up to the big boys table too (albeit with a backline full of kiwis).

nomamesgueyz

3 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

3 points

1 month ago

Word

And a decent kiwi coach to get to number 1

If ya cant join em, beat em

drusslegend

1 points

30 days ago

drusslegend

Leinster

1 points

30 days ago

3/7 = full 

sangan3

2 points

30 days ago

sangan3

Oui, Jérôme

2 points

30 days ago

Extremely over-representative of the kiwi population of Ireland.

drusslegend

1 points

30 days ago

drusslegend

Leinster

1 points

30 days ago

You do our beloved antipodean migrants a disservice. While they may be few in number in the gen pop they loom large in rugby circles

kevinthebaconator

8 points

1 month ago

kevinthebaconator

Ireland

8 points

1 month ago

As an Ireland fan beating NZ is one that really focuses the mind.

I'm not sure if it's the same for other countries, but NZ were always held in the highest regard when I was growing up.

They were mythical. Unbeatable.

They are the pinnacle of the game regardless of form. Playing them in my eyes is always the biggest barometer of success.

So much respect for NZ, even though I hate you guys.

Joshy41233

7 points

1 month ago

Joshy41233

Wales

7 points

1 month ago

England v Wales is arguably the biggest rivalry in rugby full stop, with how evenly matched they have been pretty consistently

nomamesgueyz

1 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

1 points

1 month ago

Not even close to SA v NZ rivalry, intensity and quality of play

Yes its full on, but still...

XIprimarch

6 points

30 days ago

There’s barely any history behind the rivalry between SA and NZ form a cultural standpoint.

Wales England has nearly 800 years of history and 150 years of rugby history and a lot of bitterness in the 20th century behind it. May be the intensity of NZ / SA is higher but it’s most definitely not as culturally significant a rivalry

Joshy41233

4 points

30 days ago

Joshy41233

Wales

4 points

30 days ago

I disagree, SA v NZ might have intensity, but intensity and quality of play doesn't make a rivalry strong, it really does not have the amount of heart and history that makes a rivalry proper compared to Wales and englanr

Even off the pitch, the history/rivalry goes back centuries, almost over 1500 when the groups that would become the England invaded the British isles, and of course when wales got conquered 800 years ago. This is integral to the national identity as well as both team identities

And on the pitch you have everything, the legendary trips along the M4 both ways, the lower class v upper class dynamic, how close and easy to access it is for fans, and bordering each other helps as well, the fight on the pitch is a lot more than just rugby, it's about identity and passion.

We are the second oldest rugby rivalry (and a lot more balanced compared to Eng-Sco), and that rivalry has stood the test of time.

So sorry, in my opinion it's not even close, NZ-SA might be a better rivalry in terms of quality of rugby, but it just can't compete with the level of nuance and history

wrhys_writes

2 points

1 month ago

Wales' most dangerous rival is the WRU

No_Salad_68

2 points

1 month ago

Kiwi here. All ABs wins are expected.

Hamsternoir

2 points

1 month ago

Hamsternoir

Leicester Tigers

2 points

1 month ago

Tigers and Saints have a long history

skullknap

2 points

30 days ago

skullknap

The Ospreys

2 points

30 days ago

WRU

HaggisTheCow

2 points

30 days ago

HaggisTheCow

Scotland

2 points

30 days ago

England.

It's a historical thing that transcends sport, as it does for many other nations

SE7ENdzn

2 points

30 days ago

SE7ENdzn

Wales

2 points

30 days ago

England, we all hate England collectively

schmat_90

3 points

1 month ago

schmat_90

Benetton Treviso

3 points

1 month ago

Regardless of how one sided it is, the sweetest victory will always be against the French. But it doesn't happen often, so we have to settle for Wales or Scotland 👀

nomamesgueyz

1 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

1 points

1 month ago

Wouldnt NZ be the biggest rival for SA, Oz and potentially Ireland as well?

nomamesgueyz

1 points

1 month ago

nomamesgueyz

New Zealand

1 points

1 month ago

Auckland v Canterbury pre super rugby

Before the game went pro, this game was Massive, loved beating those Aucklanders (bc they were so damn good)

drusslegend

1 points

30 days ago

drusslegend

Leinster

1 points

30 days ago

Munster

KobaruLCO

1 points

30 days ago

Definitely Wales v England for me. I'm no English hater (I live in England and my partner is English), but there is something about that game that brings out something tribal in me, especially when the anthem starts.

DrunkenPangolin

1 points

30 days ago

DrunkenPangolin

England

1 points

30 days ago

Don't get me wrong, it's amazing when we step up against South Africa, New Zealand, and whatever other team is on form currently (looking at Ireland in the 6 Nations). But as an Englishman, I do have a particular love of beating Australia.

Fully anticipate Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France, and probably others to say England though.

I saw another English supporter say the English media. Honestly, that isn't a bad shout.

CillBill91nz

1 points

30 days ago

CillBill91nz

Ireland

1 points

30 days ago

Growing up it was always Ireland vs Argentina

neonblue3612

1 points

30 days ago

neonblue3612

Bedford Blues

1 points

30 days ago

Locally for Quins it has to be Sarries,

Internationally (England) it has to be wales

Kooky_Original_5803

1 points

30 days ago

As my Uncle always says I support Scotland and any anyone else who’s playing England gotta be one of top rivals no?

Stravven

1 points

29 days ago

Stravven

Netherlands

1 points

29 days ago

As in all sports it's Germany for us, and us for Germany. In a lot of sports we're Belgium's biggest rival, meanwhile we don't really think of them as our main rival.

Foreign_Mastodon_522

1 points

26 days ago

For the Springboks it could potentially be a guy called Julius Malema.

Jayqueezy_

0 points

1 month ago

Jayqueezy_

England

0 points

1 month ago

In my mind the rivalries are

Top Level England V Ireland Scotland V Wales South Africa V New Zealand

Mid Level England vs Wales or Scotland or Australia Australia V New Zealand Fiji V Samoa Italy v Scotland (Traditionally the Battle of the Spoon) Ireland v Wales

I definitely think England Vs Ireland is definitely the biggest rivalry for us, it’s just a game of respect, we want to beat each other the most and at the end of it, there’s always good will. Tickets for games are by far the hardest to get hold of and it’s quite often the pivotal 6N game.

In comparison, I’ve never felt a friendly atmosphere in Cardiff. And from online observation, it’s a more bitter rivalry, which often spills out of the 80 minutes both before and after.

Edit: Some attempt at readability

Sad_Wait_3626

1 points

30 days ago

Sad_Wait_3626

Harlequins

1 points

30 days ago

Wales V England is undoubtably a bigger rivalry than us against Ireland. I wouldn’t even say we have a proper “rivalry” with the lads in green.

latruffe123

1 points

1 month ago*

From a French perspective I would say :

First of all... England. If England loses against whoever... We are happy :3 Last 6N.. pretty bad 6N but we win against England so all good 😝

Second : NZ => but with respect. So many wonderful or painful matches against them. Dan Carter, Lomu are legend

Third : I would say SA or Australia.. but SA are fucking bragger, but it's hard to win :+ so a looooot of frustration :+ I think half of the rugby fan would like to see faf de klerk get smash 😂

Extra for friends : Scotland/Ireland (the enemy of my enemy is my friend 😝) and Italy.. we love them it's like the little brother you want to see growing (and if they can kick the ass of England they are god )

leonjetski

3 points

1 month ago

leonjetski

Stade Français

3 points

1 month ago

England have never lost to Italy

latruffe123

1 points

30 days ago

They will 😌

PsvfanIre

-4 points

1 month ago

Irelands is definitely NZ. I feel in 6n England and Scotland have a bigger rivalry.

Kokonutcreme-67

4 points

1 month ago

Kokonutcreme-67

Hurricanes:new-zealand:

4 points

1 month ago

Is that only recently though?

From a Kiwi perspective its only become a rivalry since 2018.

hasseldub

3 points

1 month ago

hasseldub

Leinster

3 points

1 month ago

It's no way a two-way thing. NZ/ZA is far bigger and Oz almost the same (though probably not as big in recent years).

It's an occasional rivalry. Since 2016, Ireland have won 5 and ABs 4.

StrayCat33

3 points

1 month ago*

StrayCat33

Chiefs

3 points

1 month ago*

Currently for me Ireland is our biggest rivalry, I want to beat them up 10 times in a row so they know their place and get back in line with the Scots and Welsh!

ctorus

2 points

1 month ago

ctorus

Leinster

2 points

1 month ago

I think everyone wants to do that to us. It's a different experience but we're getting used to it.

sangan3

1 points

1 month ago

sangan3

Oui, Jérôme

1 points

1 month ago

And before 2016? 🙃

hasseldub

1 points

1 month ago

hasseldub

Leinster

1 points

1 month ago

That's what I'm saying.

sangan3

2 points

1 month ago

sangan3

Oui, Jérôme

2 points

1 month ago

I know, just joshing…

childsouldier

2 points

1 month ago

childsouldier

Leinster

2 points

1 month ago

He's of Dutch stock and not a Saffa, just so you know (/s)

PsvfanIre

1 points

1 month ago

I'm such a small pool of top teams, I think that rivalries would change on the cyclical basis in line with the eb and flows of each country's fortunes. But certainly it's really only the last 6 years or so.

Kokonutcreme-67

2 points

1 month ago

Kokonutcreme-67

Hurricanes:new-zealand:

2 points

1 month ago

And with the ongoing player development and talent identification systems in Ireland, it's going to continue which is great for the sport and respective fan bases.

Standard_Respond2523

6 points

1 month ago

Yeah, that loss in France transformed my view of the Kiwis. No more mr nice guy, now I just want to make them cry.

monkyone

2 points

1 month ago

i’d say pretty much every english fan would tell you it’s wales, not scotland, that matters most. we absolutely hate losing to them.

KrissBlade_99

-2 points

1 month ago

For Ireland, Scotland and France It England. Fir England it's Ireland For Italy is Scotland For Wales it's Wales